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wave84

macrumors member
Original poster
Sep 11, 2014
76
182
I think I had a really special 11 Pro. My battery health was 91%, after 4 years of heavy use. It made some fantastic pictures. It was the perfect size, for me. But it was starting to show its age, it was slow or freezing up sometimes (maybe due to iOS 17) and I was constantly low on storage (it was 64 GB).
So I bit the bullet and upgraded to the 15 Pro.

There are a few positives, definitely: the larger storage, the 120Hz screen, and the CPU/RAM increases which are noticeable. The speaker is louder (yey!). Oh, and props to USB-C, finally.

But other than that, I'm surprised to find that:
- the camera is a mess. Ok, the ultrawide is better, but the rest of them are very hit and miss, and overall worse than the 11 Pro. There is a kind of processing that happens after I take the picture that dramatically modifies the final result from the preview. I cannot turn HDR off. The skin tones especially are way off, with a gray/blue tint that I can't get rid of. The lighting overall is altered, the colours modified, the shadows are murdered, I even made side by side comparisons with the 11 Pro in my home under different lighting/shade conditions. It just changes the pictures so much and there's nothing I can do about it. The focusing distance for both the main camera and the zoom have increased, up to a point where I need to adjust distance sometimes, something which had never happened on the 11. This also creates some kind of weird perspective shift between the cameras, especially when trying to use the zoom lens at closer range. Even the selfie camera is worse, the skin just looks horrible now. (To account for display differences, for comparison purposes the pictures were transfered to a neutral display, my 5k iMac)
- there is a gigantic camera bulge on the back for no reason. Like, seriously, this thing takes worse pictures with all its huge sensors and lenses
- the battery life is marginally better, if at all
- the hand feel is... meh. As I said, the 11 Pro was the perfect size, and the straight edges are making this one harder to hold comfortably
- the screen itself is worse quality. Looking at them side by side at similar brightness levels, the 11 Pro is just a tiny bit richer, warmer and more vivid, while the 15 Pro is a bit washed out.. like when you turn on gamma correction too much on a display.

So overall, 4 years later, I was very surprised that some the most important aspects of the phone are kinda worse. And since photography is very important for me, I'm actually debating whether I should keep the new one or try to live one more year with the old 11 Pro.

Rant over :)
Is anyone else in the same boat, or am I crazy?
 
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There is a kind of processing that happens after I take the picture that dramatically modifies the final result from the preview. I cannot turn HDR off. The skin tones especially are way off, with a gray/blue tint that I can't get rid of. The lighting overall is altered, the colours modified, the shadows are murdered, I even made side by side comparisons with the 11 Pro in my home under different lighting/shade conditions. It just changes the pictures so much and there's nothing I can do about it.

This is a common complaint. Not overwhelmingly common -- surely Apple has done enough market research and testing to be confident that their post-processing is pleasing to the majority of customers -- but still common enough that you see threads about this on Reddit and MacRumors multiple times a week.

Since I experienced this with the 14 Pro I bought (and returned) and went quite deep into the rabbit hole, I think I can help you both (a) understand why your photos are being "murdered", and (b) get better photos.

Okay, so, (a) - what's happening here - is Apple's involuntary processing of standard HEIC/JPEG snapshots. It is stacking multiple exposures and ultimately they have decided to punch up contrast quite a bit, and automatically apply aggressive sharpening. That is why if you are coming from an X, XS or 11 you may strongly dislike this processing. Those phone models apply far less sharpening, and attempt to go for a more natural color balance. Somewhere around the 12-13 series, they started getting way more aggressive with the sharpening, and they started stacking exposures in a way so as to enhance the contrast beyond reason, so blacks become very dark and whites are very bright. This editing is done in the pipeline and is destructive -- you cannot undo it.

Now, for (b) - how to get better photos - right off the bat, you can try pressing the shutter button and swiping left. This takes "burst mode" photos. According to Apple, burst mode disables a lot of processing, and gives you a "WYSIWYG" (what you see is what you get) photo. I strongly suspect you will find burst mode photos to be far more pleasing to the eye, since there isn't this aggressive contrast enhancement and sharpening -- I bet if you tried it right now, taking a normal photo and then burst mode -- you'd see the difference in color and contrast, with the burst mode looking far more natural. The downside is that you get less detail and you cannot have a Live Photo.

Another option to get the best quality photo that will blow away your 11 Pro, is to use ProRAW MAX, which you have to activate in the camera settings by allowing "ProRAW And Resolution Control". Now there's a caveat here -- after you tap the upper right hand corner of your camera and activate ProRAW MAX mode, and snap a picture, in your camera roll it is still showing you a processed JPEG/HEIC preview. Go to the photo and click "Edit" -- suddenly colors and sharpness will change slightly. Now you have to scroll over to the sharpening slider, or some other slider, change it slightly, then change it back to zero. Now you can hit "save".

It's a clunky process, and annoying to follow, but it does result in insanely high quality and very natural looking pictures without over-sharpening or ridiculous contrast from stacking too many exposures. However, with ProRAW modes, you cannot get Live Photos.

Lastly, you can use an app like Halide, and take 48MP JPEGs with "enable smartest processing" in the settings toggled off. But again, you will not get a Live Photo.

TL;DR: Apple's automatic and uncustomizable Live Photo processing has drastically increased since the 11 series, leading to a very punchy "Instagram-esque" with lots of sharpening and contrast as opposed to a more natural look. You can use burst mode to get around this, or use ProRAW MAX, or use Halide, but no matter what you do, you will not be able to use Live Photos.

--

You might find talking about this to be frustrating online, because people tend to respond with either "I don't have this issue" (okay, cool, thanks, I totally thought it was literally everyone) or something like "it's a smartphone camera, buy a real camera if you want to customize the results" (which completely and totally sidesteps the issue that the processing used to be more natural and Apple decided to make it more aggressive while removing the options on prior phones to disable the processing). People just generally tell you to pound sand, as opposed to admitting the (IMO very plainly obvious) fact that Apple should give the end user some simple customization sliders that impact how the photo is processed. Ironically -- they already started doing this last year -- but only let you customize "tone" and "warmth". Literally all they need to do is allow us to change the contrast and sharpness of the photo processing, but for some reason they refuse.

If I wasn't buried deep in the Apple ecosystem I would absolutely leave iPhone over this, since it's utterly ridiculous.
 
I think I had a really special 11 Pro. My battery health was 91%, after 4 years of heavy use. It made some fantastic pictures. It was the perfect size, for me. But it was starting to show its age, it was slow or freezing up sometimes (maybe due to iOS 17) and I was constantly low on storage (it was 64 GB).
Any time I purchase a new iPhone I will always purchase the largest capacity offered for that model. In February 2021, when the iPhone 13 was a few months away, I purchased the iPhone 11 Pro Max. 512GB was the max offered for this phone. I get the max because I want to and it has f-all to do with any sort of need. It's all about want.

So, I avoid any issues such as you describe with your 11 Pro. Further, I bought the older model that year when the iPhone 12 Pro Max was the current model. I saved some money and I got what I wanted.

The iPhone 11 Pro Max is my current primary phone. It's on iOS 17.2 right now and not experiencing anything you mentioned about your 11 Pro.

- there is a gigantic camera bulge on the back for no reason. Like, seriously, this thing takes worse pictures with all its huge sensors and lenses
This has been a thing since the iPhone 6 Plus. I have always hated it and I continue to hate it to this day. But Apple seems to think it's some sort of thing for them so they keep doing it. I do own the 6 Plus and the 6s Plus (and now my 11 Pro Max) but I still hate the camera bump.

Also, I don't use cases - just in case someone out there wants to give the standard riposte of 'Your phone's just going to be covered up by a case anyway'. And for those also thinking, 'It's a non-issue because you never look at the back of your phone.', uhm yeah, I do look at the back of my phone.

- the hand feel is... meh. As I said, the 11 Pro was the perfect size, and the straight edges are making this one harder to hold comfortably
I have the iPhone 6 Plus, the iPhone 6s Plus and the iPhone 11 Pro Max. So…since 2015, I have been using phones with round edges. I find it harder to grip rounded edges because there is less surface area to grip compared to flat sides. I have to grip harder and the rounded edges have been somewhat of a contributing factor to the two times I have dropped a phone sufficiently to merit replacement.

Again, I don't use cases. My next upgrade in about two years will be to a flat-sided phone.

Is anyone else in the same boat, or am I crazy?
Not in the same boat. My primary phone is the iPhone 11 Pro Max.

As to crazy, IDK. I find that people asking this question either want validation for their choice or are seeking a second opinion. I never ask the question myself because I don't care - I do what I want, whatever anyone else thinks of it.
 
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I do not know about the 15 Pro but I went from the 11Pro Max to the 14 Pro Max, and I agree. My photos on the 11 Pro Max were definitely clearer and photos came out more consistent without having to retake them. With my 14 Pro Max I sometimes have to take like 5 or 6 photos and then pick out the best photo out of the bunch.
 
IMO the 11 Pro was the perfect phone at the time - perfect size, great cameras, great battery. And the only things I'd add to it today are a newer processor, a bit more ram, 120hz, and 5G. If they made a "SE" based on the 11 Pro chassis, I'd likely buy it up in a heartbeat.

That said, a lot of what you're referring to (not all) will get better with time. You'll get used to some of the changes and end up liking them. 4 years with a phone is a long time and a LOT of things will have settled into your brain with how they "should" be. It sounds like you had a pretty special relationship with this particular one that you already consider special anyway. ;)

You could go two ways. 1) Get a new battery (now or sometime in the near future) and keep the 11 Pro until it's no longer getting updates; or 2) Bite the bullet and embrace the change, because the 15 Pro, love it or hate it, and all of Apple's image processing - that stuff isn't going anywhere.

Edit: I loved the 11 Pro, my daughter still has one, and I currently have a 15 Pro
 
I have to disagree with several here and without a doubt find my 15 PM camera the best yet! The 5X lens is outstanding for portraits and camera is quite sharp. Straight out of the camera with no processing:
tempImagefmHQ7Q.png
 
I’ve always said — if a person cares about the quality of their photographs, don’t use an iPhone.
Apl might slap a “Pro” label on their phones, but they’re still just point & shoot snapshot cameras

This always is and always will be an absolutely ridiculous take. The iPhone X, XS and 11 take great natural photos without overly aggressive sharpening. From the 12 series onward they started applying extra sharpening that the user cannot turn off. I'm sorry but it's completely ridiculous to hand-wave this away as "buy a real camera if you care about quality of photographs" when Apple spends 30-50% of every iPhone reveal talking about THE CAMERAS.

There is literally no excuse for Apple to not allow the user to turn off this sharpening. None. Zero.

You guys saying this sound ridiculous. You're saying "if you care about photo quality, instead of Apple just implementing a very very very simple feature to allow you to take photographs you like, why don't you go buy another separate $1,000 device and lug it around?"


I have to disagree with several here and without a doubt find my 15 PM camera the best yet! The 5X lens is outstanding for portraits and camera is quite sharp. Straight out of the camera with no processing:

That's not a disagreement, since nobody is saying the camera is objectively bad or that you aren't allowed to like it. Photo processing is subjective, end of story. You liking the sharpening that is applied to the photos isn't right or wrong. It's just your preference. What's ridiculous is not having some very basic options to customize the output.

Apple puts billions into their camera development every year, they have all these advanced features, resolution control, different shooting modes, ProRAW, Deep Fusion, etc -- things that put even DSLRs to shame with how much dynamic range they can capture -- the iPhone 15 Pro legitimately captures more dynamic range than a $3,000 Canon R5. Yet, they refuse to implement the most basic features found on those cameras - sharpening and noise reduction customizations. Simply put, the end user should be able to tell the camera module to STOP sharpening the photos it is generating. There isn't really a valid logical reason why this option shouldn't be available.

If you want an example, this thread should suffice: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ing-edge-while-older-hdr-phones-dont.2413450/

It's not really debatable that there is more sharpening being applied to photos since the 12 series phones. What's shocking is that Apple refuses to allow us to TURN. IT. OFF. And more shocking that people continually find excuses for this, going so far as to say "just buy a camera" when the very very simple feature that should be on the phone would completely negate the need for a camera.
 
I can relate in the sense that I find the size and hand-feel of the iPhone XS so ideal that I don't know if I have anywhere to go in terms of an upgrade. Might just get the battery replaced a second time, next year.
 
I can relate in the sense that I find the size and hand-feel of the iPhone XS so ideal that I don't know if I have anywhere to go in terms of an upgrade. Might just get the battery replaced a second time, next year.
Same, except I am on iPhone X, which means:

  1. No more new Apple Watches for me, since they all come with a watchOS version that can't pair with my iOS 16 iPhone
  2. No new iOS updates, already missing a lot of iOS features even simple things like stickers from photos
  3. Comparatively bad screen and battery compared to XS and 11

I might look to find a refurbished 11 Pro. I should have bought one when Apple still sold them directly, now they only sell 12 Pros refurbished
 
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I think I had a really special 11 Pro. My battery health was 91%, after 4 years of heavy use. It made some fantastic pictures. It was the perfect size, for me. But it was starting to show its age, it was slow or freezing up sometimes (maybe due to iOS 17) and I was constantly low on storage (it was 64 GB).
So I bit the bullet and upgraded to the 15 Pro.

There are a few positives, definitely: the larger storage, the 120Hz screen, and the CPU/RAM increases which are noticeable. The speaker is louder (yey!). Oh, and props to USB-C, finally.

But other than that, I'm surprised to find that:
- the camera is a mess. Ok, the ultrawide is better, but the rest of them are very hit and miss, and overall worse than the 11 Pro. There is a kind of processing that happens after I take the picture that dramatically modifies the final result from the preview. I cannot turn HDR off. The skin tones especially are way off, with a gray/blue tint that I can't get rid of. The lighting overall is altered, the colours modified, the shadows are murdered, I even made side by side comparisons with the 11 Pro in my home under different lighting/shade conditions. It just changes the pictures so much and there's nothing I can do about it. The focusing distance for both the main camera and the zoom have increased, up to a point where I need to adjust distance sometimes, something which had never happened on the 11. This also creates some kind of weird perspective shift between the cameras, especially when trying to use the zoom lens at closer range. Even the selfie camera is worse, the skin just looks horrible now. (To account for display differences, for comparison purposes the pictures were transfered to a neutral display, my 5k iMac)
- there is a gigantic camera bulge on the back for no reason. Like, seriously, this thing takes worse pictures with all its huge sensors and lenses
- the battery life is marginally better, if at all
- the hand feel is... meh. As I said, the 11 Pro was the perfect size, and the straight edges are making this one harder to hold comfortably
- the screen itself is worse quality. Looking at them side by side at similar brightness levels, the 11 Pro is just a tiny bit richer, warmer and more vivid, while the 15 Pro is a bit washed out.. like when you turn on gamma correction too much on a display.

So overall, 4 years later, I was very surprised that some the most important aspects of the phone are kinda worse. And since photography is very important for me, I'm actually debating whether I should keep the new one or try to live one more year with the old 11 Pro.

Rant over :)
Is anyone else in the same boat, or am I crazy?
I think it’s almost like shifting to an entirely different camera. I’d suggest returning and hunting down a bigger capacity 11 Pro then putting a new battery into it. A bit of work but you’d be happier and save money.
 
It’s unlikely that iOS 17 is to blame for slowing down your 11 pro. I know because a new battery and plenty of storage made mine run like new. Lack of storage makes iPhones act very weird.
 
The original poster is on to something. Looking back at my old 11 pics, I hadn’t realised how good they are. I’m on a 15 Pro Max which I quite like, but the quality hasn’t massively improved over the years.

I think what has is the low light performance and colour representation. That’s much better. But overall I think they hit a bit of a wall about 4 years back.

No biggie, it’s nice to see the cameras maturing and means upgrading doesn’t have to be done by the user very often.

I’d personally like to hold on to the 15 Pro Max for 3 years.
 
hmm i dunno, i find that apple has fixed the oversharpening effect on the 15 pro. it was most apparent on the 14 pro.

It's toned down on the 15 Pro, but there's a thread here from a few days ago showing quite clearly there is still enough sharpening that you get halos / glowing edges on the 15 Pro. Personally, after seeing that I went to an AT&T store and took some photos with a 15 Pro and found the same thing, will post my own pics later.

The sharpening is still aggressive enough that there SHOULD be a toggle.

The frustrating part is everything else about the camera is brilliant. The colors in ProRAW mode are amazingly accurate, the dynamic range is great, the portrait mode is cool, etc. But they just WILL. NOT. LET. anyone turn down the sharpening.
 
I think I had a really special 11 Pro. My battery health was 91%, after 4 years of heavy use. It made some fantastic pictures. It was the perfect size, for me. But it was starting to show its age, it was slow or freezing up sometimes (maybe due to iOS 17) and I was constantly low on storage (it was 64 GB).
So I bit the bullet and upgraded to the 15 Pro.

There are a few positives, definitely: the larger storage, the 120Hz screen, and the CPU/RAM increases which are noticeable. The speaker is louder (yey!). Oh, and props to USB-C, finally.

But other than that, I'm surprised to find that:
- the camera is a mess. Ok, the ultrawide is better, but the rest of them are very hit and miss, and overall worse than the 11 Pro. There is a kind of processing that happens after I take the picture that dramatically modifies the final result from the preview. I cannot turn HDR off. The skin tones especially are way off, with a gray/blue tint that I can't get rid of. The lighting overall is altered, the colours modified, the shadows are murdered, I even made side by side comparisons with the 11 Pro in my home under different lighting/shade conditions. It just changes the pictures so much and there's nothing I can do about it. The focusing distance for both the main camera and the zoom have increased, up to a point where I need to adjust distance sometimes, something which had never happened on the 11. This also creates some kind of weird perspective shift between the cameras, especially when trying to use the zoom lens at closer range. Even the selfie camera is worse, the skin just looks horrible now. (To account for display differences, for comparison purposes the pictures were transfered to a neutral display, my 5k iMac)
- there is a gigantic camera bulge on the back for no reason. Like, seriously, this thing takes worse pictures with all its huge sensors and lenses
- the battery life is marginally better, if at all
- the hand feel is... meh. As I said, the 11 Pro was the perfect size, and the straight edges are making this one harder to hold comfortably
- the screen itself is worse quality. Looking at them side by side at similar brightness levels, the 11 Pro is just a tiny bit richer, warmer and more vivid, while the 15 Pro is a bit washed out.. like when you turn on gamma correction too much on a display.

So overall, 4 years later, I was very surprised that some the most important aspects of the phone are kinda worse. And since photography is very important for me, I'm actually debating whether I should keep the new one or try to live one more year with the old 11 Pro.

Rant over :)
Is anyone else in the same boat, or am I crazy?

You don’t like holding the 15 Pro, you’d of detested the 12/13/14 series.

The 15 Pro is dream to hold after those handsets.
 
I think I had a really special 11 Pro. My battery health was 91%, after 4 years of heavy use. It made some fantastic pictures. It was the perfect size, for me. But it was starting to show its age, it was slow or freezing up sometimes (maybe due to iOS 17) and I was constantly low on storage (it was 64 GB).
So I bit the bullet and upgraded to the 15 Pro.

There are a few positives, definitely: the larger storage, the 120Hz screen, and the CPU/RAM increases which are noticeable. The speaker is louder (yey!). Oh, and props to USB-C, finally.

But other than that, I'm surprised to find that:
- the camera is a mess. Ok, the ultrawide is better, but the rest of them are very hit and miss, and overall worse than the 11 Pro. There is a kind of processing that happens after I take the picture that dramatically modifies the final result from the preview. I cannot turn HDR off. The skin tones especially are way off, with a gray/blue tint that I can't get rid of. The lighting overall is altered, the colours modified, the shadows are murdered, I even made side by side comparisons with the 11 Pro in my home under different lighting/shade conditions. It just changes the pictures so much and there's nothing I can do about it. The focusing distance for both the main camera and the zoom have increased, up to a point where I need to adjust distance sometimes, something which had never happened on the 11. This also creates some kind of weird perspective shift between the cameras, especially when trying to use the zoom lens at closer range. Even the selfie camera is worse, the skin just looks horrible now. (To account for display differences, for comparison purposes the pictures were transfered to a neutral display, my 5k iMac)
- there is a gigantic camera bulge on the back for no reason. Like, seriously, this thing takes worse pictures with all its huge sensors and lenses
- the battery life is marginally better, if at all
- the hand feel is... meh. As I said, the 11 Pro was the perfect size, and the straight edges are making this one harder to hold comfortably
- the screen itself is worse quality. Looking at them side by side at similar brightness levels, the 11 Pro is just a tiny bit richer, warmer and more vivid, while the 15 Pro is a bit washed out.. like when you turn on gamma correction too much on a display.

So overall, 4 years later, I was very surprised that some the most important aspects of the phone are kinda worse. And since photography is very important for me, I'm actually debating whether I should keep the new one or try to live one more year with the old 11 Pro.

Rant over :)
Is anyone else in the same boat, or am I crazy?
The few pics I've taken with my new 15 Pro Max have been good. Have you tried using RAW?
 
The few pics I've taken with my new 15 Pro Max have been good. Have you tried using RAW?

It's not RAW, it's ProRAW, there is an important difference. True RAW photos need work before they're looking good.

ProRAW photos tend to look amazing. Apple did a good job with that. Problem is they're 75MB and have no Live Photo. But if you don't care about Live Photos, ProRAW takes incredible shots, truly rivaling some DSLRs unless you want to pixel peep.
 
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I think I had a really special 11 Pro. My battery health was 91%, after 4 years of heavy use. It made some fantastic pictures. It was the perfect size, for me. But it was starting to show its age, it was slow or freezing up sometimes (maybe due to iOS 17) and I was constantly low on storage (it was 64 GB).
So I bit the bullet and upgraded to the 15 Pro.

There are a few positives, definitely: the larger storage, the 120Hz screen, and the CPU/RAM increases which are noticeable. The speaker is louder (yey!). Oh, and props to USB-C, finally.

But other than that, I'm surprised to find that:
- the camera is a mess. Ok, the ultrawide is better, but the rest of them are very hit and miss, and overall worse than the 11 Pro. There is a kind of processing that happens after I take the picture that dramatically modifies the final result from the preview. I cannot turn HDR off. The skin tones especially are way off, with a gray/blue tint that I can't get rid of. The lighting overall is altered, the colours modified, the shadows are murdered, I even made side by side comparisons with the 11 Pro in my home under different lighting/shade conditions. It just changes the pictures so much and there's nothing I can do about it. The focusing distance for both the main camera and the zoom have increased, up to a point where I need to adjust distance sometimes, something which had never happened on the 11. This also creates some kind of weird perspective shift between the cameras, especially when trying to use the zoom lens at closer range. Even the selfie camera is worse, the skin just looks horrible now. (To account for display differences, for comparison purposes the pictures were transfered to a neutral display, my 5k iMac)
- there is a gigantic camera bulge on the back for no reason. Like, seriously, this thing takes worse pictures with all its huge sensors and lenses
- the battery life is marginally better, if at all
- the hand feel is... meh. As I said, the 11 Pro was the perfect size, and the straight edges are making this one harder to hold comfortably
- the screen itself is worse quality. Looking at them side by side at similar brightness levels, the 11 Pro is just a tiny bit richer, warmer and more vivid, while the 15 Pro is a bit washed out.. like when you turn on gamma correction too much on a display.

So overall, 4 years later, I was very surprised that some the most important aspects of the phone are kinda worse. And since photography is very important for me, I'm actually debating whether I should keep the new one or try to live one more year with the old 11 Pro.

Rant over :)
Is anyone else in the same boat, or am I crazy?

I do disagree with most of your findings; apart from the increased minimum focal length. I noticed on my 13 a year ago when I came from a 11 Pro Max and I was upset about it then. But over time I learned how to cope with it.

The screen quality should be better on the 15 Pro, objectively. Perhaps you have a faulty display?
 
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