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Upgrading from OS 9.0.1

Re: To Yellow

Originally posted by b_riggs
For example, the TCP/IP control panel is not available under classic. Some OS 9 software requires this.
Click to expand...
You're right, you cannot open or change the settings in the TCP/IP control panel, but the TCP/IP stack is still available for use by apps. Out of curiosity, which apps require opening & closing the TCP/IP Control Panel?
 
To Yellow

I'm not sure exactly how to answer this because it has been quite a while since I was working with OS 9 and OS 10 on the same HD. However, it is clear that the versions of OS 9 Classic and OS 9 boot are extremely different. Classic is extremly truncated, with only a few extensions and control panels. So, at a minimum, one has to have a way of controling what loads when booting or when loading Classic from the same System Folder. This can be done with Conflict Catcher V 9, but it is not all that great in practice.

Anyway, besides my own experience, I refere you to Mac OS X, The Missing Manual, Second Edition, by David Pogue, who highly recommends a second partition for OS 9.
 
Re: To Yellow

Originally posted by b_riggs
However, it is clear that the versions of OS 9 Classic and OS 9 boot are extremely different. Classic is extremly truncated, with only a few extensions and control panels. So, at a minimum, one has to have a way of controling what loads when booting or when loading Classic from the same System Folder. This can be done with Conflict Catcher V 9, but it is not all that great in practice.
Click to expand...
Classic, as it is installed by OS X's installers is pared down, certainly. But it's nearly identical to the default, clean install from an OS 9 cd. I have ~150 (originally OS 9) Macs that have OS X installed and use the old OS 9 System Folder as Classic. I've never had to reinstall Classic from the OS X installers to get it to work properly. One can still open the Extensions Manager in OS X and change which extensions are loaded at boot/classic-boot through the Advanced tab in the Classic pref pane.
 
My basic point depends on information I do not have.

That is - IF, and only if, she wants to be able to boot in OS 9, for any reason, she will be better off with a separate OS 9 partition.

This was my own experience, and is also recommended by users and authors who are much more knowledgable than I am.
 
Yikes, You guys are scaring me a bit. :eek:

A couple of things:

1) Her computer is a dual 500MHz G4 "gigabit ethernet." It is currently running 256MB of RAM, but I'm planning on upgrading that with another 512MB soon. She has a 40GB harddrive that is mostly empty (she's using 15%.) I've been thinking about adding another drive, but I've given that kind of low priority since she still has a fair amount of room left on this one. I also just installed a Pioneer DVD burner.

2) My girlfriend is an artist, right now she is mostly using her computer to make prints of her originals. She is also starting to get into digital photography, but hasn't experimented with it too much yet.

Her computer has been acting kind of wacky for a while now. It crashes or temporarily freezes quite often. She gets intermittent messages warning her that she is low on HD space, when she's only using about 5GB worth, etc...

Because of this I assume it is best to at some point do a clean install? Of course she has no idea where any of her program discs are...but that's another story. Hopefully she will find those soon.

-Dylan

Edit: Sorry took me a while to write this post. The software that she needs to run under OS 9 is primarily Illustrator and Photoshop 5.0. And maybe Pagemaker sometimes. She's also hoping to find a used copy of freehand somewhere.
 
That is a decent computer and should function well with Panther and Classic. However, there has been a long standing issue about the speed of OS 9 software running in Classic versus running natively under OS 9. I have seen many posts about Classic speed being quite a bit slower than native OS 9. But this does depend on the both the particular app and the particular computer. I personally find Panther to be very snappy but at this point I make hardly any use of OS 9 software. The Apps you mention she uses may well be somewhat slower under classic, just how much, and how annoying that may be to her is unknown.

The first thing you should do is figure out what is going on with her HD, something is fishy. I highly recommend Disk Warrior for fixing most hard drive problems and it has a reputation also of never doing harm, unlike Norton. You can also try Disk First Aid, which is an Apple Utility and should already be present on her HD. But Disk First Aid is not a powerful tool.

The quitting and freezing seems related to the HD issues but could also be partly the normal kind of stuff that comes with OS 9. OS 9 is more reliable if one knows how to maintain a well managed System Folder. This can be learned from experience the hard way, or easier from selected books on OS 9.
 
Re: To Yellow

Originally posted by b_riggs
Anyway, besides my own experience, I refere you to Mac OS X, The Missing Manual, Second Edition, by David Pogue, who highly recommends a second partition for OS 9.
Click to expand...
I just checked this book, first time I've ever cracked it since I got it, and his suggestion for partitioning is the same that I gave earlier in this thread. Partitioning 9 & X makes booting into either easier, assuming you need to switch which OS you boot into often.
 
I'll chorus a second to b_riggs' promotion as DiskWarrior as the disk util of choice. Far and away the best OS X util out there.

I cannot disagree that running in OS 9 is faster then running it as Classic, there is one distinct advantage that Classic has over OS 9. If your girlfriend is having crashing/freezing problems and you cannot iron out the culprit(s).. When the machine freezes in OS 9, you have to reboot. When Classic freezes, you simply restart Classic, no need to reboot the machine. In a few months, you might want to look for Photoshop 7 on eBay. It should be quite cheap since Adobe recently released a new version.
 
Originally posted by b_riggs
The quitting and freezing seems related to the HD issues but could also be partly the normal kind of stuff that comes with OS 9. OS 9 is more reliable if one knows how to maintain a well managed System Folder. This can be learned from experience the hard way, or easier from selected books on OS 9.
Click to expand...

I have to admit that the freezing and crashing seems to happen more when I use the computer than when she does. It seems to happen mostly when I try to do more than one thing at a time. I can't seem to access a menu while an IE page is loading for example.

The low space on the HD warning seems to be linked to specific files in Illustrator. I've never been there when it happens, so I can't give you any details on it. I will try Disk First Aid and if that doesn't work I will get a copy of Disc Warrior.

I had just assumed that the OS was having a conflict or had become corrupted somehow. In the Windows world reformatting the HD and reinstalling is the catch all to fix just about every problem...a bit extreme perhaps, but...;)

It will be interesting to see how slow her programs become under Classic. We're not talking Virtual PC slow are we?

-Dylan

p.s. Thanks for the "Missing Manual" suggestion. It has been recommended to me before, but you tipped me over the edge, ordered on Amazon just a few minutes ago.
 
Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
It will be interesting to see how slow her programs become under Classic. We're not talking Virtual PC slow are we?
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I wouldn't say THAT slow :) IMO, after a little while she won't notice the difference. And, no, OS 9 was not very good at multi-threading tasks. OS X is awesome at it.
 
OK...So I think that I will upgrade her to OS 9.2.2, then install Panther on top of that. If it becomes necessary later to have an easily accesible way to boot into 9, then I will add a partition for it. Sound about right?

-Dylan
 
It'd be easier to partition now, since typical partitioning on a Mac requires the drive to be erased. But like I said, disk is cheap, if you find that you need a separate volume later, just buy a cheap (but not slow) hard drive and throw it in there, there's plenty of room for it. Then move her OS 9 stuff to it.
 
Are you ready for this?

I have the same system: Dual 500 G4, originally with 256 MB RAM, 40 GB drive and OS 9.

What I have now is 768 MB RAM, 120 GB and 80 GB hard drives, Panther and 9.2.2.

How I got there:

1) Exchanged my 40 GB drive for an 80 and added a 120 GB drive (the 120 is my primary drive). Panther is on the 120 and OS 9 is on my 80. 80 GB is overkill for OS 9 but I have partitioned this drive and use the second partition for my iTunes music folder. You don't need to swap out your 40 gig drive for OS 9, but I would highly recommend a larger drive for Panther. If you choose not to get a second drive now, at least partiition the drive into two partitions (see step three).

2) Backup data and get the updates to OS 9 others have already mentioned. You definitely want to be ready to move to 9.2.2. Save these updates to a CD (you said she has a burner now, right?) Start by making sure you have a backup of anything and everything you could possibly need in the futute. Partitioning wipes all data from the drive in the process.

3) Partition the drive: Boot to the first Panther disk (by rebooting while holding down the C key) and run the Disk Utility. Choose the partition tab. Drag the partition divider until the partitions are set the way you want. (If you're doing this with just the 40 gig drive, you should be able to get by with just 4 gig for the OS 9 partition, but remember after re-installing your software to tell Photoshop to use a different partition as the scratch disk.) Name the partitions something obvious like "OS 9 HD" and "OS X HD" so you can easily identify them when you're loading the OS's.

4) Install OS 9: Now reboot to your original OS 9 disk and install. After OS 9 is installed, run all your updates to get up to 9.2.2. Reboot the machine after removing any CD's.

5) Install Panther: Insert the Panther disk and start the installer. Follow the on screen instructions and be sure to choose the larger partition for your installation.

Now you will be able to boot to 9, X or boot to X and use classic. The classic mode automatically disables any esxtensions or control panels that are not relevant. To boot into 9 just restart the machine while holding down the option key and choose the OS 9 option that comes up. It is best to install your OS 9 apps when booted to OS 9, some installers don't work in classic. You don't have to hold down the option key to get back to X (unless you changed the startup disk setting in OS 9) just restart and you will go back to X.
 
I agree with buying a second HD, It will be easier than having to reformat the existing HD if you do not do it at the beginning. Also, there are other advantages to having a second HD, fast, easy back-up for example. In fact, I suggest you start looking for an inexpensive HD right now at your leasure. Depending on how big it is, it can be used for many useful things.
 
RTCrane

Very good advice in my opinion. I too would suggest an 80 GB HD for use with Panther. Look for an ATA-100 drive. You can probably find one for about $85. And get Disk Warrior. I also suggest Cocktail (shareware) for various OS 10 maintenance tasks. I am also a big fan of Supercal, the best software I have ever seen for mortals to use to provide a high quality monitor profile.
 
Thanks. Great step by step instructions. A couple of stupid questions. Forgive me, but I don't understand partitioning that well.

I understand that I would want to keep all the OS 9 programs installed on the OS 9 partition, but do all of her files that she uses with these programs also need to be on that partition?

Sorry, that wasn't very clear. Let me try again. Right now if she opens up one of her document folders and selects a picture file it knows to open up Illustrator to look at that file (I think?) If she had her documents stored on the OS X partition, would it know to look on the OS 9 partition for the programs to open that file?

If I decided to get another HD to install Panther to, would this need to be the primary drive? i know this is a little backwards, but can I have it default to boot into OS 9, and press the option key at startup if she wants to boot into OS X? I'm trying to change her user experience as little as possible at first. She is rather skeptical about upgrading, she used a friends iBook with OS 10.0.2 (I think?) and hated it after 5 minutes. I'd like to be able to install OS X so that she (and more importantly I :D ) can experiment with it gradually.

-Dylan
 
The Mac world does not really have primary and secondary drives from the user point of view. You select the boot drive and that drive continues to be the boot drive until you change it.
 
Originally posted by b_riggs
The Mac world does not really have primary and secondary drives from the user point of view. You select the boot drive and that drive continues to be the boot drive until you change it.
Click to expand...

Good to know.

I'm thinking for the time being I will just upgrade her to OS 9.2.2 and start looking around for good deals on harddrives to install Panther on to. It seems like this will be the easiest in the long run. (Wish I would have bought that 200GB drive from Dell for $22 a few weeks back.:( )

-Dylan
 
So I just found this drive on Techbargains

Maxtor 120GB Deal $59.84, Oct 26
Code: 94097054 Maxtor 120GB 7200RPM ATA/133 8MB Cache hard drive $129.84 - $20 in link - $50 rebates = $59.84. Item 678808 Free shipping.

$50 rebate Exp 11/1/03

It seems like a pretty good deal and am planning on ordering it, but I wanted to make sure that it will work with her Mac. I've never installed a harddrive before so I'm a little nervous about ordering the wrong equipment. Do you guys have any opinions on this drive?

-Dylan
 
Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
Sorry, that wasn't very clear. Let me try again. Right now if she opens up one of her document folders and selects a picture file it knows to open up Illustrator to look at that file (I think?) If she had her documents stored on the OS X partition, would it know to look on the OS 9 partition for the programs to open that file?
Click to expand...
The Mac keeps track of what's needed to open a file. It doesn't matter where you store it. Just double-click and the right program will open -- even if it has to open "Classic" within OS X first.

If I decided to get another HD to install Panther to, would this need to be the primary drive? i know this is a little backwards, but can I have it default to boot into OS 9, and press the option key at startup if she wants to boot into OS X? I'm trying to change her user experience as little as possible at first. She is rather skeptical about upgrading, she used a friends iBook with OS 10.0.2 (I think?) and hated it after 5 minutes. I'd like to be able to install OS X so that she (and more importantly I :D ) can experiment with it gradually.

-Dylan
Click to expand...
As someone already mentioned, the Mac doesn't really distinguish between primary and secondary drives the way the PC does, I just thought this would help you to understand it a little better coming from the PC world.

But to answer your question, yes, that is a great way to go. In the Startup Drive control panel in OS 9 just choose the OS 9 drive as (you guessed it) your start up drive. Then do the option startup thingy to choose OS X when you want.
 
It should work. Your Mac model is almost certainly a Gigabit Ethernet. If so, it came with an ATA-66 drive interface. But ATA drives are backwards compatible. So this ATA-133 drive will work. I had an ATA-100 drive in an ATA-33 Mac and it worked fine. Also, it was fairly fast.

Speaking of getting the right stuff, this mac takes PC-100 memory.

A word of caution, there is a limit to the size of hard drive that OS 9 can see/manage (as a boot drive). So that is another reason to think about partitioning the new hard drive. It will be faster than the stock drive and your girfriend will want to be able to use it. Of course, in Classic this problem goes away.
 
Originally posted by dylanemcgregor
It seems like a pretty good deal and am planning on ordering it, but I wanted to make sure that it will work with her Mac. I've never installed a harddrive before so I'm a little nervous about ordering the wrong equipment. Do you guys have any opinions on this drive?

-Dylan
Click to expand...
Sounds like a good deal to me too. And, yes, it will work with her Mac.

To install it, just open the side of her Mac. Turned off, of course, but still plugged in (this helps dissipate static). Move the jumper on the drive to the slave position (this will be in the instructions that come with the drive). Mount it just above the already installed drive and connect the cable and power. Close the Mac, boot up and run Disk Utility to format ("Erase" in Mac speak) the drive (it will be pre-formatted for use on a PC). It is best to format as Mac OS Extended. If you plan to partition the drive, this is the time to do that as well.
 
Originally posted by b_riggs
Speaking of getting the right stuff, this mac takes PC-100 memory.
Click to expand...

A guy at the Apple store told me I could use PC-133 memory, plus the OWC configuration page only pops up with PC-133. If I understand correctly it will run at the slower PC-100 speed, but other than that should work fine. Is this correct?

-Dylan
 
Macs can be VERY picky about memory. My understanding is that some PC-133 is backwards compatible on Macs and some is not. I suggest you check with the memory manufacterer and/or seller.
 
Originally posted by rtcrane
Sounds like a good deal to me too. And, yes, it will work with her Mac.

To install it, just open the side of her Mac. Turned off, of course, but still plugged in (this helps dissipate static). Move the jumper on the drive to the slave position (this will be in the instructions that come with the drive). Mount it just above the already installed drive and connect the cable and power. Close the Mac, boot up and run Disk Utility to format ("Erase" in Mac speak) the drive (it will be pre-formatted for use on a PC). It is best to format as Mac OS Extended. If you plan to partition the drive, this is the time to do that as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks, anwsered my question before I even had a chance to ask it. I will certainly be referring back to this thread often.

I went ahead and ordered the drive. Should be here on Tuesday. With any luck I should have OS X installed on it by the end of the week. :D :excited:

-Dylan
 
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