Upgrading Mac Mini -- Questions

[Hrothgar]

I've got a 2014 Mini which is driving me and my wife nuts. We're ready to upgrade to a new model.
I have a few questions.
I've been making Carbon Copy Cloner backups of my current Mini hard drive. I assume I can just restore this on a new machine? However, if my current Mini has something screwed up that causing the delays and other issues, wont this just get copied to my new mac? Instead of a full restore of my current machine, would I be better off re-downloading the apps I need and copying over data files from a hard drive backup?

 

[Fishrrman]

Tell us the current configuration of the 2014 Mini and what OS is on it.
ALL of the above is very important re "speed".

Chances are, "the delays" you're experiencing with the 2014 are due to the hardware configuration, and NOT "the software running on it".

I have a "prepared guide" on how to migrate from an old Mac to a new one, but you need to "get the new one coming" first.

For a new Mini, I STRONGLY suggest that you get 16gb of RAM "from the factory" and either a 256gb or 512gb SSD.

I would also recommend either an i5 or an i7 CPU.

The graphics are the same for all of them.

You can save $$$ by buying an Apple-refurbished unit.
That's what I did -- very happy with the decision to do so.

 

[Boyd01]

Have a look at this thread, it contains a good discussion of ways to migrate your data to a new Mini

Quickest Way to Transfer Data from 2009 i7 iMac to 2018 Mac Mini?

Hi, I have treated myself to a new Mac Mini, I currently have a 2009 i7 iMac, the only problem is this only has a Ethernet, FireWire 800 and 4 USB 2.0 ports!! From what I remember these are slow transfer speeds compared to the Thunderbolt and USB3.0 ports on Mac Mini. Can anyone suggest...

forums.macrumors.com

I will say, however, that my own opinion on this subject are still evolving. The "Migration Assistant" technique is arguably "the quickest" and it has worked very well for me in the past. However, when I finally upgrade to a new Mini I may actually go with the "clean install" technique (which is contrary to what I suggested in that thread). This is because I am still running very old software on my old computer(s) and there may be very little to gain by moving it to an incompatible new machine and operating system.

My current thinking is actually to use Parallels to create a copy of my old primary computer as a virtual machine running Sierra. This would allow me to continue using all my old 32-bit software and soften the financial blow of the upgrade by postponing the purchase of thousands of dollars of new software at the same time as new hardware. Since I've never tried running MacOS in a virtual machine, I don't know how well this will work. But I'm gonna give it a try.

 

[Boyd01]

You can save $$$ by buying an Apple-refurbished unit

This is the only way that I will upgrade to a new Mini and I also recommend it. However, you will need some patience. I check the refurb store constantly throughout the day. Last week and the week before, a bunch of refurbs appeared on Apple's site early in the week and a few more were added as they sold off, but by the end of the week there were none. This week has been different however, there have been absolutely no refurb Mini's available for a whole week now.

I'm looking for a very specific configuration (fully-loaded i7) however and am not in any rush. So it could very well take me months to get what I want. If you are looking for one of the less expensive models (such as Fishrrman suggested) then the wait may not be so long. But these sell very quickly, so check often and be prepared to buy immediately when one shows up! If you're looking for instant gratification, the refurb store might not be a good option (unless you're lucky).

Refurbished Mac - Mac mini

Save up to 15% on a refurbished Mac mini. Tested and certified by Apple including a 1-year warranty. Free delivery and returns.

www.apple.com

 

[iAssimilated]

I, too, recommend buying a refurb if you have the patience to wait for one.

 

[Hrothgar]

Thanks everyone. I assume that my problem is mostly because my machine is too old to handle the current OS, but if that was the case I would expect to see more late 2014 mini owners complaining. I ran Apple Diagnostics, and it said everything was fine.

And -- when I first bought a Mini, it was intended only as a music server -- I already had a MBP. Now, as life changed, I added a good monitor and the mini is used as a fairly full-time computer. My wife does a lot of graphics/design work on it. Would I be better off getting an iMac and attaching my current monitor as a second? (I assume I can hook up a Dell monitor to the iMac.) Or will I get more power for my money from the mini?

My Mini is late 2014, 2.6 GHz i5; 16 GB 1600 Mhz DDR3.

Hardware Overview:

Model Name: Mac mini
Model Identifier: Macmini7,1
Processor Name: Dual-Core Intel Core i5
Processor Speed: 2.6 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 2
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 3 MB
Hyper-Threading Technology: Enabled
Memory: 16 GB
Boot ROM Version: 248.0.0.0.0
SMC Version (system): 2.24f32
Serial Number (system): C07Q51C6G1J1
Hardware UUID: 6D85B81E-B938-5F90-8D08-2F1DF9931BBC

 

[Boyd01]

Your Mini is compatible with Catalina. Catalina also works on the 2012 Mini

macOS Catalina is compatible with these computers - Apple Support

You can install macOS Catalina on any of these Mac models.

support.apple.com

Looking at your specs... do you really need to upgrade at all? That is not such a bad machine for general usage. You don't say what kind of disk you have. Is it the 1tb Fusion drive? If so, that actually consists of a 128gb SSD plus a 1TB hard disk. You can easily split the SSD from the hard drive by just typing commands into terminal. You could then use the 128gb SSD as the startup drive and that will really speed things up - I am doing this on a 2014 Mini.

Alternately, you could install a new, larger SSD which shouldn't be too hard if you get the correct one. Or - even easier - just get a USB SSD and plug it in. This is dead-easy and will provide a HUGE improvement in performance over a hard-disk based Mini.

Depending on which of these options you choose, it would cost between $100 - $300, which is a lot cheaper than a new Mini.

 

[Hrothgar]

This is the drive info:

Physical Drive:
Device Name: APPLE SSD SM0128F
Media Name: AppleAPFSMedia
Medium Type: SSD
Protocol: PCI
Internal: Yes
Partition Map Type: Unknown
S.M.A.R.T. Status: Verified

I've looked into splitting the SSD from the hard drive -- I was warned not to try unless I knew what I was doing. Also looked into adding an SSD. I wasn't sure it would give enough benefit. (And since my wife will be looking over my shoulder, it might be worth spending some more money to get a new machine rather than spending money to make the current machine worse and then buying a new one anyway.)

My Mini is slow. Switching between user accounts used to be fairly instantaneous, now there could be a 5-10 second lag. I'm constantly getting the pinwheel of frustration. I'm still having issues with a slow/jittery mouse after I switched to a Logitech Unifying device. There are times I can't open a finder Window. One time i couldn't change my output speaker -- I had to do a hard reset and it took about 5 minutes for the computer to reboot. It freezes frequently, and I have to a hard restart. If it was a PC, I'd run a virus/malware program, but I'm not sure what to do for the Mac.

 

[iAssimilated]

Looks like you might have a 2TB Fusion drive setup. The device name is the same as my 2014 mac mini. The biggest problem with the 2014 model is it uses a dual core laptop class processor, which in my experience is just a bit slow running newer OSes. It was okay when running El Capitan, but got progressively worse after that. Getting a new mini would offer a night and day difference in usage. My 2014 model is currently only being used as a content cache/backup server. I am pretty sure I could not use it as my main machine without pulling my hair out.

 

[G4DPII]

The 2014 runs fine if you add a PCI-e NVMe drive.

 

[Hrothgar]

Is this the same as splitting the SSD from the hard drive, referred to above? I assume not. How does it differ? (I'm not sure what either option is meant to do.)

I saw a video which makes it look like adding the PCI-e NVMe drive is pretty straightforward. Once I put it in, though, what do I do to get the benefit?

What PCI-e NVMe do folks recommend? Is there a kit that comes with the necessary torx drivers?

 

[Boyd01]

If you are concerned that the Mini might not be acceptable after adding an SSD, you might get an external SSD such as the Samsung T5 - shop around for the best price on the size you need

Samsung Portable SSD T5 | Specs & Features | Samsung Semiconductor Global

Samsung Portable SSD T5 delivers fast speeds and safeguards data. It has various capacities, 250GB to 2TB. Download T5 firmware, driver, and more.

www.samsung.com

This is really easy, just format the T5 for MacOS and clone your internal disk to it with Carbon Copy. You can then select it in the startup disk preferences (or re-boot while holding down the option key and it will let you choose the SSD). It will be almost as fast as an internal SSD, and if you still aren't happy, you can still use the T5 with a new Mini.

Hard to say what your problem is, apparently *something* has changed since you used to be happy. It could be that the internal hard drive is starting to fail. But that Logitech Unifying receiver makes me wonder. Do you have a regular direct-wired keyboard and mouse that you can use for a test?

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

It sounds like you have a Fusion Drive, combining a small PCIe SSD with a slow hard drive. If you get another PCIe SSD you will have to replace the existing one, and that will cause problems if you don't first separate the drives.

 

[Hrothgar]

I also can’t get Logitech Options to run on my mini. When I try to run it, it just gives the spinning circle for a while and then closes. That’s why I think I’ve got a software issue.

 

[G4DPII]

Hrothgar,

To add a PCI-e NVMe drive you can take 2 routes, go down the OWC line and spend a fortune, or the other which is to purchase the Sintech - https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Sintech-NGFF-NVMe-Upgrade-A1347/dp/B07Q5FBNVG - then one of the M.2 NVMe drive that you want.

It is relatively simple to install.

The benefits whilst limited are still an improvement of what the 2014 mini normally runs at.

You can essentially double the storage space. A standard SATA SSD in the HD bay will run at between 450MB/s and 530MB/s, the NVMe drive will be aprrox 25% - 30% faster. Sadly it cannot achieve the full speed due to the port only having access to 2 of the 4 PCI-e lanes.

I have OS and Applications on the NVMe drive and everything else on the SATA SSD I installed a couple of years ago.

 

[ZebraDude]

Your Mini is compatible with Catalina. Catalina also works on the 2012 Mini

macOS Catalina is compatible with these computers - Apple Support

You can install macOS Catalina on any of these Mac models.

support.apple.com

Looking at your specs... do you really need to upgrade at all? That is not such a bad machine for general usage. You don't say what kind of disk you have. Is it the 1tb Fusion drive? If so, that actually consists of a 128gb SSD plus a 1TB hard disk. You can easily split the SSD from the hard drive by just typing commands into terminal. You could then use the 128gb SSD as the startup drive and that will really speed things up - I am doing this on a 2014 Mini.

Alternately, you could install a new, larger SSD which shouldn't be too hard if you get the correct one. Or - even easier - just get a USB SSD and plug it in. This is dead-easy and will provide a HUGE improvement in performance over a hard-disk based Mini.

Depending on which of these options you choose, it would cost between $100 - $300, which is a lot cheaper than a new Mini.

I thought I would throw in my .02 cents. I have a lesser 2014 myself. I have the 2.6 with 8 GB of RAM and I just finished a HDD to SDD upgrade (yesterday morning) (I'm a old guy with not perfect eyesight and the TINY connectors were fun) I started clean (I had no need to recover the old data it's on iCloud so no cloning and I put Catalina on the new SDD using the Internet recovery) for me it's a 2 TB rocket ship!

Ps. something I found out is the newest Catalina now turns TRIM on automatically for my 3rd party SSD!

 

[yellowhelicopter]

My Mini is slow. Switching between user accounts used to be fairly instantaneous, now there could be a 5-10 second lag. I'm constantly getting the pinwheel of frustration. I'm still having issues with a slow/jittery mouse after I switched to a Logitech Unifying device. There are times I can't open a finder Window. One time i couldn't change my output speaker -- I had to do a hard reset and it took about 5 minutes for the computer to reboot. It freezes frequently, and I have to a hard restart. If it was a PC, I'd run a virus/malware program, but I'm not sure what to do for the Mac.

There is certainly something wrong with your system or software. 2014 2.6Ghz model that you have more than enough to work properly with Catalina without those issues. Your computer certainly should load MUCH faster after reboot if your system is on SSD or even if it's on HDD, and your shouldn't get any freezes given your computer is sound. It could be your SSD that is failing or CPU throttling/overheat because of inadequate cooling. Check CPU temperature, check if warm/hot air is blowing out from behind, and tell us what your storage configuraion actually is, like XXX GB SSD (+ YYY GB HDD).

 

[Boyd01]

I would remove that wireless keyboard/mouse/receiver and use hardwired ones for starters. From what the OP has said, this could very well be the problem.

 

[Hrothgar]

I'll see if I can find a wired keyboard/mouse, but I don't think I've got one. The mini was in a poorly-ventilated location. And at times when I touched the top it was pretty hot. I moved it recently to the top of my desk. Currently, the top of the unit is 95* (towards the back), using my kitchen laser thermo. (Ambient temp is probably around 70.)

This is the storage info under "System Information":

Macintosh HD - Data:

Free: 425.49 GB (425,494,487,040 bytes)
Capacity: 1.12 TB (1,121,118,199,808 bytes)
Mount Point: /System/Volumes/Data
File System: APFS
Writable: Yes
Ignore Ownership: No
BSD Name: disk2s1
Volume UUID: A68FE1F6-F810-3242-BF6C-B768B895326A
Physical Drive:
Device Name: APPLE SSD SM0128F
Media Name: AppleAPFSMedia
Medium Type: SSD
Protocol: PCI
Internal: Yes
Partition Map Type: Unknown
S.M.A.R.T. Status: Verified

This is the info from SATA/SATA Express:


Apple SSD Controller:
Vendor: Apple
Product: SSD Controller
Physical Interconnect: PCI
Link Width: x2
Link Speed: 5.0 GT/s
Description: AHCI Version 1.30 Supported
APPLE SSD SM0128F:
Capacity: 121.33 GB (121,332,826,112 bytes)
Model: APPLE SSD SM0128F
Revision: UXM2JA1Q
Serial Number: S1K3NYAG628773
Native Command Queuing: Yes
Queue Depth: 32
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk1
Medium Type: Solid State
TRIM Support: Yes
Bay Name: SSD
Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
EFI:
Capacity: 209.7 MB (209,715,200 bytes)
File System: MS-DOS FAT32
BSD Name: disk1s1
Content: EFI
Volume UUID: 0E239BC6-F960-3107-89CF-1C97F78BB46B
disk1s2:
Capacity: 121.12 GB (121,123,069,952 bytes)
BSD Name: disk1s2
Content: Apple_APFS

 

[iluvmacs99]

I've got a 2014 Mini which is driving me and my wife nuts. We're ready to upgrade to a new model.
I have a few questions.
I've been making Carbon Copy Cloner backups of my current Mini hard drive. I assume I can just restore this on a new machine? However, if my current Mini has something screwed up that causing the delays and other issues, wont this just get copied to my new mac? Instead of a full restore of my current machine, would I be better off re-downloading the apps I need and copying over data files from a hard drive backup?

If your wife is doing graphics design work, especially with Adobe CC and some image editing software, it is not the Mini that is slowing your wife's work down. It is the drive you are using. Even if you are using a Fusion drive, you need to allocate a separate fast media work drive for the Mini, so it doesn't get bogged down in the I/O transfers, especially when you are dealing with multiple images, graphics and overlays. I have a Mini 2011 which is even lower speced than yours, and yet when I added a Thunderbolt hub just recently that I got from a recycled place for really cheap, added a few fast USB 3 SSDs and spinning drives as my media and scratch drives and all of a sudden, the Mini became super responsive with large media files, especially when everything goes through the Thunderbolt port. Don't overtax the USB 3 ports on your Mini, as your Mini has Thunderbolt 2 ports which are even faster than my older Mini which has TB1. Intense and large graphics work really require FAST I/O media drives to swap between drive and the RAM, unless of course you have lots of RAM; more than 32GB RAM which your Mini is not able to be expanded to.

Currently, I am using this Mini as a Thunderbolt server and coordinates media file transfers between my MB Air, my Mac Pro and my PowerMac G5 which acts as my PowerPC legacy server for my PPC machines. Even the gigabit network, which the Thunderbolt hub also provides, gives me easily 100MB/s file transfers between my MB Air and Mac Pro, but the USB 3 ports from the TB hub gives me a consistent 400-450MB/s xfer rate on my fast USB 3 SSD externals which supports USAP (USB Attached SCSI protocol). Without the TB hub, my Mini is hopelessly slow as molasses iwith its USB 2 ports!

 

[Hrothgar]

I hear you, although the problems aren't limited to when someone is using the Adobe suite programs.
Would a PCI-e NVMe drive installed accomplish the same result as an external SSD attached to a hub?
I guess if I have a fusion drive, I'd need to separate my SSD from the hard drive, remove my SSD and then add the PCI-e?

Is there a diagnostic program that will tell me if I have a software issue? As noted above, I ran Apple Diagnostics and is said there were no issues.

 

[iluvmacs99]

I hear you, although the problems aren't limited to when someone is using the Adobe suite programs.
Would a PCI-e NVMe drive installed accomplish the same result as an external SSD attached to a hub?
I guess if I have a fusion drive, I'd need to separate my SSD from the hard drive, remove my SSD and then add the PCI-e?

Is there a diagnostic program that will tell me if I have a software issue? As noted above, I ran Apple Diagnostics and is said there were no issues.

What you really need is to keep your Fusion drive just as a boot and application drive and then get 2 fast USB 3.0 or TB drives, preferably the ones that support the USAP protocol. Sierra and up OS support this USAP protocol which gives you even more speed; at least 40-80MB/s more than what you can get out of a normal USB 3.0 drive. The external media drives are used for reading files and caching files and then a write drive (this one doesn't have to be fast, but should be on a separate USB 3 bus).

Right now, I had this setup with my MacBook Air 2014 which is slower than your Mini. My boot drive is an external Adata SSD with USAP support which yields 480MB/s of sustained throughput, the internal SSD as my cache, read and scratch drive and the write drive is on my Thunderbolt port which is inside my Mini and is an SSD and is really smoking fast. I have no problems rendering high megapixels images and up to 4K video. My only limitation is that my MB Air doesn't have an eGPU and runs slow for AI stuff like Topaz. If it does, then it'll smoke my Mac Pro. Even in my Mac Pro, I had it setup for a SSD RAID boot and application partition, a HD RAID read partition and then a USB 3.0 USAP external write drive. They are 3 independent partitions and so, they are not limited by the bus throughput bottleneck.

Your 2014 mini is still quite capable, but while the CPU is capable, you need the media drives to keep up with the CPU workload and not let your CPU idle too long. The Mini 2018 helps because its internal drive is a fast NVMe. But for most graphics workload, unless you deal with multiple 4K RAW footages or multiple 50/80MP overlaid images, don't benefit as much from NVMe. Which is why I don't have a PCIe NVMe in my Mac Pro. That doesn't mean I won't need NVMe. I would probably add one when prices come down a bit so I have better headroom with the 4K RAW footages. The SSD Raid is fast enough and so is my Thunderbolt drives for what I am doing now.

 

[Hrothgar]

So, I decided to get an external 1tb Samsung T7.
Can someone point me to instructions on how to make the external SSD my startup drive? I use CCC to back up my current hard drive.

 

[iluvmacs99]

So, I decided to get an external 1tb Samsung T7.
Can someone point me to instructions on how to make the external SSD my startup drive? I use CCC to back up my current hard drive.

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202796

Hope this helps.

 

[yellowhelicopter]

Currently, the top of the unit is 95* (towards the back), using my kitchen laser thermo.

95C or F? If it's 95C I do think it's the exact reason why it's so slow and not reliable.