Upgrading the 2009 8-core CPUs

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by Thomaspin, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. Thomaspin macrumors member

    Thomaspin

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    #1
    A reader of my blog has done a professional job of removing the Integrated Heat Spreaders from Intel Xeon upgrade CPUs for the 2009 8-core dual CPU Mac Pro.

    This makes for a stock replacement process, with no need to revise heat sink reinstallation and fan sockets, and also obviates any need to install additional thermal pads.

    His work is illustrated and explained here.
     
  2. flowrider macrumors 601

    flowrider

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    #2
    ^^^^WOW!!!! That's way above my pay grade. Fantastic to have another way to successfully update the DP 2009 Mac Pro.

    Lou
     
  3. xcodeSyn macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    Another great post for anyone who wants to learn more about the upgrade options for 2009 DP Mac Pros. However, removing the IHS still presents the same possibilities of over/under-tightening the heat sinks although counting how many turns required to disassemble the heat sinks would help. The 2009 DP MP is a niche product in the MP lineup and the risks of upgrade are inherently higher than the later 2010/12 models.
     
  4. Macsonic macrumors 65816

    Macsonic

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    #4
    Thanks Thomaspin for the informative article. The 2009 Mac Pro is still a sought after model specially for those wanting to upgrade later on plus the price level makes it attractive.
     
  5. box185 macrumors member

    box185

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    #5
    I'm posting here to thank Thomaspin for including my information on his excellent website. I had been interested in the Mac Pro for some time, but his documentation of the 2009 DP upgrade really inspired me.

    I elected to remove the IHS on the W5590's that I installed in my machine because I enjoyed the challenge. With proper attention given to cutting the adhesive and limiting the CPU's exposure to excess heat, the risk of damage is greatly minimized.

    The 2009 DP Mac Pro is a great bargain - I especially like the memory and disk drive capacity that this machine offers.
     
  6. flowrider macrumors 601

    flowrider

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    #6
    ^^^^I bow to your skill and your nerve to perform this delicate task. I know you are minimizing the risk, but IMHO, you deserve accolades for being the first member of this forum to successfully complete this difficult endeavor.

    Lou
     
  7. box185 macrumors member

    box185

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    #7
    ^^^^ Thanks, but everyone has a skill of some kind - as an electrical engineer, mine happens to be useful here. The process is not difficult - a little time consuming, but certainly not difficult. The reward that I received from this project is a sense of accomplishment that is often missing in my day job.
     
  8. box185 macrumors member

    box185

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    #8
    X5670's

    FYI - I removed the lids from a pair of X5670's and installed those in my Early 2009 Mac Pro. The pair of W5590's were sold on eBay. The Xeon X5670's are expensive processors at $1100, but an easy upgrade with the lids removed. The risk of damage to the CPU board is greatly minimized with the IHS removed as the Early 2009 MP was designed to use Xeon processors without lids. Thanks again to Thomaspin for the inspiration to get the 2009 Mac Pro.
     
  9. Macsonic macrumors 65816

    Macsonic

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    #9
    Hi Box185 Thank you for the info. I will contact you about CPU upgrading in the future. I enjoyed reading the blog of Thomaspin. :)
     
  10. box185 macrumors member

    box185

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    #10
    Indeed, it's an excellent blog. I look forward to hearing from anyone regarding this subject. I am very happy with the performance of my 2009 Mac Pro.
     
  11. pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

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    #11
    Why not just use solder wick to remove excess solder from the CPU?

    In my opinion, the risk of damaging the CPU by trying to remove the lid is far higher than the risk of damage to the CPU tray by leaving the lid on. If I ever had to upgrade a 4,1, I would never consider attempting to remove the lid. With the number of people who have successfully upgraded 4,1s without removing the lid, I see no reason to risk damage to the CPUs.
     
  12. Macsonic, Oct 12, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2013

    Macsonic macrumors 65816

    Macsonic

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    #12
    Though I could be wrong, I think Box185 is an electronics engineer and he may be using some kind of machine or equipment to remove the lid. He may have skills that qualifies him to do this task. Though I agree with you that many have successfully upgraded their 2009 cpus, the more options to upgrade the cpus would be better for Mac Pro users. Thanks
     
  13. box185 macrumors member

    box185

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    #13
    Using solder wick requires melting all of the solder with a source of heat. Once all of the solder has melted, you have lost control of the temperature. Using a temperature controlled heat plate allows you to remove the IHS when the solder directly under the IHS has melted - before ALL of the solder has melted. That limits the amount of excess heat that the CPU is exposed to.

    Keep in mind that these CPU's were exposed to melted solder during assembly, but only for a limited amount of time - that is how these integrated circuits are assembled. Removing the IHS is much easier because you do not need to melt all of the solder.

    In my opinion, the risk of damage to the CPU is considered higher because the correct technique had not been developed. Using a jig to cut the adhesive and a temperature controlled hot plate to remove the soldered lid reduces the risk to near zero. I have done several pair using this technique. Overall, I consider the risk lower because there is no risk of damage to the CPU tray on installation of the heat sinks with a de-lidded CPU. The heat sink makes contact with the four studs and, if the CPU is correctly laid into the socket, the pins on the CPU tray are safe from damage. The torque specification is there to protect the threads, not the CPU.
     
  14. pastrychef, Oct 13, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013

    pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

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    #14
    @ Macsonic:

    I understand that he's an electrical engineer, but sometimes offering too much information to people is not a good thing. One such example is offering people the directions on bomb making.

    Therefore, I just wanted to offer a bit of prospective for others who may be considering upgrading their 4,1 and stumble upon this thread. I've even seen people successfully remove lids using nothing more than razor blades. But it isn't something I would recommend.

    ----------

    @ box 185:

    I was referring to removing the excess solder from the die itself, after the lid was removed. I think it's better than using a Dremel...
     
  15. pastrychef, Oct 13, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013

    pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

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    #15
  16. box185 macrumors member

    box185

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    #16
    I understood that, but I would not use a solder iron and solder wick on the bare CPU - too much heat. I would also not use a Dremel tool to remove the solder.

    Based on my experience, using a razor blade is the best solution to remove the excess solder on the bare CPU ( once the IHS has been removed ). The reason being that solder is very malleable and can be easily cut with a sharp razor blade - just keep the blade near flat with the top surface of the bare CPU.
     
  17. box185 macrumors member

    box185

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    #17
    I think those are not good examples in the context of this post. The OP's blog is specifically related to Xeon processors that have the IHS soldered to the CPU - there is no TIM under the IHS on a Xeon processor.

    Worse yet, those videos contradict your concern about offering too much information. Using a razor blade without controlling the position of the blade relative to the circuit board and the depth of cut yields high risk and CAN lead to failure - all of that being pointed out on the Thomaspin blog.

    I cannot recommend using the techniques described in those videos.
     
  18. DanielCoffey macrumors 65816

    DanielCoffey

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    #18
    There is an opportunity here for someone to say "I feel I am qualified and equipped to do this work... for a fee. Send me your CPUs and I will undertake the job and warranty my work."

    Personally, as a person completely inexperienced a this kind of work, I would certainly not attempt it. As Pastrychef implied - the risk to my CPUs is simply too great because of my own inexperience but if there was a professional-sounding individual who had positive feedback, I would consider getting them to undertake the task instead.
     
  19. MacVidCards Suspended

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    Hollywood, CA
    #19
    As someone who has upgraded a 2009 with a couple of 5680s, let me chime in.

    I think for someone with experience and who knows what they are doing, this sounds like a great thing.

    I was convinced that I had ruined my CPU tray and bought another one. Getting the screws tightened just right was an unpleasant experience. BUT....if you have patience, and literally COUNT the turns it gets a WHOLE lot easier.

    I was so eager to step from slowest of the slow 2.26 x 8 to nearly fastest 3.3 x 12 that I thought Jesus was going to give me a hand. Turns out he was busy and I ended up dropping $400 for a new CPU tray. I later discovered that my first one wasn't really dead.

    Even given that, the fact that the 5680s were $750/each and that was a DEAL vs $400 for CPU tray makes this a no-brainer. Risk $400 tray or upwards of $3000 in CPUs? Again, for someone with experience, talent, tools, etc maybe IHS removal is good. But I think for most folks it would be better to have a Pro do the scary stuff, in fact with either procedure. I think there is a guy named Stealth or something like that who offers the CPU swap service on Ebay. And if you IHS removal guys have the service for a reasonable sum, that would be good.

    Of course the issue ends up being liability. Nobody wants to be on the hook for $3000 in new 5690s and if he said/he said situation comes up, Paypal and most CC companies are going to vote with the payer.

    APple won, they have made upgrading the 2009 DP boards an official PITA that can have painful $$$ consequences. I still need to source some heatsinks and more 5680s and put together my 2nd tray and sell it.

    I did a 2009 Quad to Hex and my GOSH that was 1,000,000% easier. Just like every $25 PC MoBo. Even a drunken monkey could do it. Trickiest part was ordering the long handled hex wrench.

    I'm glad you guys figured this out, but even with 30+ years soldering and the ability to do SMC SOIC-8 EEPROMS all day long, I would still go the spacers and counting screw turns route. (Did I mention that I once removed and replaced 4 @ TSOP RAM chips on a GeForce 3?)(And it still worked?)
     
  20. Macsonic macrumors 65816

    Macsonic

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    #20


    Hi PastryChef. No problem. It's always good practice to be cautious and get all the facts first. If I recall correctly, in another thread on video cards, you cautioned about using PC cards that draw too much power for the Mac Pro that may cause damage or upgrading beyond the allowable specs. I am thumbs up on that. Thanks
     
  21. pastrychef macrumors 601

    pastrychef

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    #21
    I was skimming through the linked page and was referring to the following. After looking again, I realized he was talking about the adhesive around the rim of the lid.
     

    Attached Files:

  22. flowrider macrumors 601

    flowrider

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    Nov 23, 2012
    #22
    I did a 2010 DP 5,1, I'm not sure a monkey could do it, but it certainly was so much easier than what has been described for the 4,1 DP Mac Pro. Why Apple did that back in 2009, and why just on the DP machines is still a mystery to me:confused: My 5,1 was really a piece of cake and took less than 30 mins, and I took my time.

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1620885&highlight=w5590

    Lou
     
  23. DPUser macrumors 6502a

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    Jan 17, 2012
    #23
    I did the 4,1>5,1 flash/single CPU upgrade. It was so easy, even I could do it.

    - A. Monkey ;)
     
  24. macuser453787 macrumors 6502

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    #24
    I did that as well. Awesome! Really happy with it. :)
     
  25. alphaod macrumors Core

    alphaod

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    #25
    It's great, a reader of your blog has done this...

    The problem with removing the IHS is it voids the warranty on the processors.
     

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