Upgrading to tiger.

[mkrishnan]

And learn why the terminology "clean install" is misleading and should not be used when referring to Mac OS X.

Not to be argumentative, but to learn, after reading the linked post, I'm not quite sure I follow you. It's true that Apple does not use the term "Clean Install" in OS X. But it's not clear to me how Erase and Install is different from the vernacular usage of the term "Clean Install" in the computer world. The idea is basically that the HD is formatted or erased, and that no files from the previous installation (such as preferences or drivers) are retained. Or do I not get it, and is this not what E&I does?

 

[6749974]

Not to be argumentative, but to learn, after reading the linked post, I'm not quite sure I follow you. It's true that Apple does not use the term "Clean Install" in OS X. But it's not clear to me how Erase and Install is different from the vernacular usage of the term "Clean Install" in the computer world. The idea is basically that the HD is formatted or erased, and that no files from the previous installation (such as preferences or drivers) are retained. Or do I not get it, and is this not what E&I does?

I second your question. I mean, when Tiger comes out (nevermind some bug in 10.3), when I install it using the 'Erase and Install' option, isnt that the best of the best install options? Doesn't that create the zen-like reincarnation im looking for? I hope so, or else i will be thoroughly disappointed.

 

[mkrishnan]

Doesn't that create the zen-like reincarnation im looking for? I hope so, or else i will be thoroughly disappointed.

LOL, I love that you incorporated the phrase "zen-like reincarnation" into this thread. Death *is* necessary for rebirth.

 

[6749974]

LOL, I love that you incorporated the phrase "zen-like reincarnation" into this thread. Death *is* necessary for rebirth.

I try to be as unnecessarily zen like as possible.

 

[jmsait19]

Doesn't that create the zen-like reincarnation im looking for? I hope so, or else i will be thoroughly disappointed.

Here's to hoping my PB reincarnates back into a PB and not something like a caterpillar. Because if it does, then I will be thouroughly disappointed.

 

[powerbook911]

First off, there is no such thing as a clean install of Mac OS X. Please read this FAQ:

http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@72.pBFlaGIfVaV.0@.599b7ba4

And learn why the terminology "clean install" is misleading and should not be used when referring to Mac OS X.

Since you have an 8 week old Powerbook, you should already have a CD burner. Use it, if not an external hard drive to backup to:

http://www.macmaps.com/backup.html

It is not a question of if you will lose data, but when. And during a system upgrade is one of the more likely times that would happen, but it can happen at anytime without warning. So two backups you can rely on are a must for any computer user, unless you want to play russian roulette with your data.

Secondly, since you have an 8 week old Powerbook, you can upgrade the RAM, add any of an assortment of cameras, VHS to DVD converters, audio devices, etc... Firewire and USB offer many different devices you can connect to. And if your Powerbook is a 15" or 17" then you have PCMCIA/Cardbus as well. For more on compatible hardware and software, see this FAQ:

http://www.macmaps.com/macosxnative.html

Keep your hard drive less than 85% full, and enjoy it.

And because you got a Powerbook, save up enough money within the first year to buy AppleCare. You'll be glad you did. It may not cover accidents, but it will cover any minor manufacturer defects that might crop up through the hardware test. And best of all, you may even get your Powerbook replaced with a newer one under AppleCare if you find you do have a defect after a newer model is released.

You have that whole first year to purchase AppleCare within. And you get valuable 7 day a week tech support for up to 3 years from your computer's purchase date if you purchase AppleCare.

I can see I made myself out to be an idiot with my questions. I just haven't gone through an OS X upgrade before. The clean install term I simply used as a general way to say erase and install. I regularly backup to .mac, my iPod, and DVDs.

Finally, I always upgrade within a year, so I won't be buying Applecare.

However, I greatly thank you for all the time to give so many details. Much appreciated. Although, you must think I'm pretty low to not know I can add external devices and memory to my machine. haha I just haven't been in this forum for long.

 

[6749974]

Here's to hoping my PB reincarnates back into a PB and not something like a caterpillar. Because if it does, then I will be thouroughly disappointed.

agk! biting my style.

 

[gopher]

As the FAQ says:

1. Clean Install when used as a term by Apple only applied to Mac OS 9 installer's ability to rename the existing System Folder and create a new one while leaving the rest of the documents untouched.

2. Clean Install when used as a term in Windows refers to erasing the entire hard drive meaning you have to recover all the data back again when done.

Similarities to 1 and 2 exist in Mac OS X's installation options:

1. Archive and Install offers much the same as a Clean Install in Mac OS 9.
2. Erase and install offers much the same as a Clean Install in Windows.

To avoid confusion, and make sure people do not take actions which would cause unnecessary loss of data, or time spent recovering data, be sure to use the appropriate term for the operating system installer you are describing.

 

[gopher]

I can see I made myself out to be an idiot with my questions. I just haven't gone through an OS X upgrade before. The clean install term I simply used as a general way to say erase and install. I regularly backup to .mac, my iPod, and DVDs.

Finally, I always upgrade within a year, so I won't be buying Applecare.

However, I greatly thank you for all the time to give so many details. Much appreciated. Although, you must think I'm pretty low to not know I can add external devices and memory to my machine. haha I just haven't been in this forum for long.

I don't think of anyone as low. I just share the expertise I have gained. If it is redundant, that's fine. There will always be someone reading the forums who may be able to use it.

 

[gopher]

I second your question. I mean, when Tiger comes out (nevermind some bug in 10.3), when I install it using the 'Erase and Install' option, isnt that the best of the best install options? Doesn't that create the zen-like reincarnation im looking for? I hope so, or else i will be thoroughly disappointed.

As for erase and install as a better installation option, that's subjective. Depends really on how much pain in time you want to spend recovering data, finding Application CDs, restoring preferences, etc...

With an Archive and Install, the update is done in 20 minutes (at least it was in Panther and Jaguar), and it is done right. With an erase and install, unless you have very few personal files and applications backed up, you could be spending hours recovering all the information. Both require you backup before you start, but only one requires a recover of data assuming it goes smoothly. I've seen a few Archive and Installs not go smoothly, in which case a recovery of data is necessary. But most are smooth.

 

[celebi23]

Ok, lemme see if I get this:Archive and Install stores away my user folder and pretty much cleans the system? Sorry if I keep asking questions, this is my first time doing a major OS upgrade

 

[mkrishnan]

1. Archive and Install offers much the same as a Clean Install in Mac OS 9.
2. Erase and install offers much the same as a Clean Install in Windows.

I think I understand now. The problem is that what Apple used to mean by a clean install before OS X was different than what most PC users meant.... Gotcha. Will do. Roger 10-4, good buddy.

 

[gopher]

Ok, lemme see if I get this:Archive and Install stores away my user folder and pretty much cleans the system? Sorry if I keep asking questions, this is my first time doing a major OS upgrade

Celebi,
No apology necessary:

Archive and Install does the following:

1. If you save user and network preferences:

- leaves the User folder untouched.
- renames the Mac OS X System folder to Previous System
- changes any Apple applications sitting in the Applications folder
to the version found on the installer.
- leaves all other applications alone

2. If you don't save user and network preferences:

- renames the Mac OS X System folder to Previous System
- changes any Apple applications sitting in the Applications folder
to the version found on the installer.
- leaves all other applications alone
- moves the User folder to the Previous System folder and creates a new User folder. This means all your previous preferences, e-mail, addressbook, bookmarks, music, photos, keychains have to be moved back to the new User folder it creates.

In both cases the Previous System folder is no longer usable as a bootable system, and you have a brand new System folder that is ready to boot the operating system.

 

[celebi23]

Celebi,
No apology necessary:

Archive and Install does the following:

1. If you save user and network preferences:

- leaves the User folder untouched.
- renames the Mac OS X System folder to Previous System
- changes any Apple applications sitting in the Applications folder
to the version found on the installer.
- leaves all other applications alone

2. If you don't save user and network preferences:

- renames the Mac OS X System folder to Previous System
- changes any Apple applications sitting in the Applications folder
to the version found on the installer.
- leaves all other applications alone
- moves the User folder to the Previous System folder and creates a new User folder. This means all your previous preferences, e-mail, addressbook, bookmarks, music, photos, keychains have to be moved back to the new User folder it creates.

In both cases the Previous System folder is no longer usable as a bootable system, and you have a brand new System folder that is ready to boot the operating system.

Ok, so saving user and network preferences leaves my user folder untouched. Got it Repair permissions, Back-up data,Archive and install, save user and network preferences, and then repair permissions and Tiger should run smoothly Thanks for the info gopher One last question, once I upgrade, can i get rid of the previous system folder?

 

[gopher]

Ok, so saving user and network preferences leaves my user folder untouched. Got it Repair permissions, Back-up data,Archive and install, save user and network preferences, and then repair permissions and Tiger should run smoothly Thanks for the info gopher One last question, once I upgrade, can i get rid of the previous system folder?

Yes. Assuming you were able to save user and network settings.

If you can't, you'll want to do the migration I talked about.

 

[powerbook911]

What about the applications folder? Does the archive and install wipe the applications folder clean? For example, will I have to reinstall iLife, from my Powerbook DVDs?

 

[gopher]

What about the applications folder? Does the archive and install wipe the applications folder clean? For example, will I have to reinstall iLife, from my Powerbook DVDs?

Only those applications which are included in the Mac OS X installer will replace those already on the machine. The rest will remain untouched by an Archive and Install. It should say which portions of iLife, if any, are included on the operating system box. If you have a newer version of any of those applications, you'll probably want to back it up somewhere, where the installer won't see them.

 

[powerbook911]

Only those applications which are included in the Mac OS X installer will replace those already on the machine. The rest will remain untouched by an Archive and Install. It should say which portions of iLife, if any, are included on the operating system box. If you have a newer version of any of those applications, you'll probably want to back it up somewhere, where the installer won't see them.

Thanks! The general idea is that archive and install is the best way to go then? Could there still be benefit in erase and install? If there is, I will go with that.

 

[gopher]

Thanks! The general idea is that archive and install is the best way to go then? Could there still be benefit in erase and install? If there is, I will go with that.

The only benefit from an erase an install is the very few system level files that don't get moved with the System folder. Occasionally some badly programmed application may stuff something into the Hard drive -> Library folder that tricks the system into doing something that doesn't work well in the new operating system. Hence the reason I recommend you remove all haxies, and other third party system modification utilities before upgrading:

http://www.macmaps.com/upgradefaq.html mentions that in section 8.

When in doubt, contact the third party developer to make sure the version of your application has been tested to run in 10.4 release before running 10.4 release version. The same holds true of any operating system upgrade minor or major.

Though if you have backed up, you can test reverting to the backup and then try upgrading again without said application that you think is causing problems.

I've seen very few programs that behave that way, but as you know, if you build your system like a jalopy, it will act like one!