UPS needed

Discussion in 'iMac' started by jota73, Nov 7, 2015.

  1. jota73 macrumors 6502

    jota73

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    Apr 19, 2006
    Location:
    South America
    #1
    Currently I have a set of 9 iMacs for which I am looking for a good UPS. I currently have a really small UPS but is not enough.

    The idea of this UPS is to allow me maximum 6 minutes of work while the power comes up again. It normally takes less than 1 minute to come back, but just need to have an extra backup...

    Wondering if a 1500 KVA would do it, there are only iMacs, no printers, no nothing, just plain iMacs that are on all day long from 8am to 7pm

    some of the options I have reviewed: (please feel free to suggest) Im on a budget though.

    1. CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS 1500VA 900W AVR Mini-Tower
    2. CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD PFC Sinewave UPS 1500VA 900W PFC Compatible Mini-Tower
    3. APC BR1500G Back-UPS Pro 1500VA 10-outlet Uninterruptible Power Supply

    could someone give me an advice?

    thanks
     
  2. Buerkletucson macrumors 6502

    Buerkletucson

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    Sep 12, 2015
    #2

    I have the CyberPower Pure-sinewave 1500PFCLCD.....sweet unit.

    Just for reference, i powered off all other peripherals (including my security cameras I have attached) and at idle my iMac is using about 50 watts.....if running intensive tasks it can easily bump up to 150 watts or better.

    (9) systems on one 1500VA/900watt unit is to much IMHO.
     
  3. jota73 thread starter macrumors 6502

    jota73

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    #3
    I would assume that all 9 iMac working during peak hours would sum up to 1200 watts aprox, then, one of at least 1500 would do the job roughly.. huh?

    anyone else?
     
  4. Buerkletucson macrumors 6502

    Buerkletucson

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    #4
    The model is rated @ 1500VA which equates to 900 watts.
     
  5. jota73 thread starter macrumors 6502

    jota73

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    #5
    To be honest, things don't match.

    Currently I am using:

    http://www.amazon.com/APC-BE550G-Ba..._23_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=13NH7JY04N3N7P22XKM8

    all 9 iMac are connected to it, when power fails (when it comes up again in no more than 1 minute) all computers are ON and none turn off. Based on the APC description is a 650VA which is recommended to a 1 single computer (I have 9 connected to it) how come this one that is less than have the size I am intending to buy is capable of handling the whole arrange of computers?
     
  6. jsm4182 macrumors 6502

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    Beacon, NY
    #6
    I see something else that doesn't match. How are you connecting 9 iMacs to a UPS that has 4 powered outlets?
     
  7. Buerkletucson macrumors 6502

    Buerkletucson

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    Sep 12, 2015
    #7


    What are the machines running at the time?
    It all depends and can vary greatly......if they aren't running any intensive applications then 9 x 50 watts = 450 watts.
     
  8. Buerkletucson macrumors 6502

    Buerkletucson

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    Sep 12, 2015
    #8
    Maybe something as simple as a outlet strip plugged into the UPS? :)
     
  9. jota73 thread starter macrumors 6502

    jota73

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    #9
    I have used a surge protector that allows me to connect multiple devices
     

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  10. jota73 thread starter macrumors 6502

    jota73

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    #10
    Tasks are intensive resources applications. Development environments, Mysql server, internet, Skype amongst others.
     
  11. roadkill401 macrumors 6502

    roadkill401

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    Jan 11, 2015
    #11
    If you want 6 minutes of run time, you are going to need a much larger UPS. I have one of the APC RS1500 ups, and with my single iMac with a Lacie and an Synology DS212 connected, I am running at 37% capacity. If I turn off the lacie and Synology it drops down to 23%. That is just the mac running but not at full tilt all processors at 100%. My runtime is listed at 27min. As you increase the load, the runtime drops of dramatically. So at 50% load, the runtime is 10min, but at 75% load, I get 3 minutes.

    Why do you need a single UPS? it would be far most cost effective to buy 5 smaller 1000va UPS and hook up 2 macs to each, rather than try and get a larger 3000va unit that you would need to run ALL the macs off a single unit to get your 6 minutes of run time.
     
  12. westom macrumors regular

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    Nov 8, 2009
    #12
    UPS and protector manufacturers quietly recommend no protector connected to a UPS. Because power from a UPS in battery backup mode is so dirty.

    Since robust, that dirty UPS power is not harmful to any electronics. But can be harmful to a protector. That protector, in turn, might be harmful to the UPS. Better is a power strip with an always required 15 amp circuit breaker and no protector parts.

    A UPS is often made so cheaply as to even require a new battery every three years. Generally, 9 150 watt electronic loads would need maybe 1.9k watts as that UPS ages and for other technical reasons.
     
  13. Buerkletucson macrumors 6502

    Buerkletucson

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    Sep 12, 2015
    #13
    You obviously haven't seen or looked at the signal from the CyberPower Pure sine-wave UPS series.
    They are sometimes even cleaner than house power.

    I needed a UPS to also power my security cameras along with my iMac......the Cyberpower pure Sine-wave unit is the only one that would not introduce a ton of noise into the video signals.
    IMHO the generic UPS power can't be good for a computer either.
     
  14. westom macrumors regular

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    #14
     
  15. westom macrumors regular

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    Nov 8, 2009
    #15
    I have seen pure sine wave power. It is cleanest only when not in battery backup mode. This 120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Even that is perfectly good power for properly designed electronics. And clearly not harmful to computers once we replace speculation with engineering facts and numbers.

    Why did your UPS not list a number for 'clean' power? Easy is to get naive consumers to believe UPS power is better. Why is my UPS called a sine wave output? Because 'dirty' power is nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves. They did not lie. They market to consumers who forget concepts taught in high school math.

    Obviously 'dirty' power was not your video problem. 'Dirty' power from any UPS must not cause those noise problems in any properly designed electronics.

    OP wants a UPS that can provide maximum power from batteries. My UPS power is 'dirtier' so that batteries can provide power longer - UPS is more efficient. Most efficient circuits outputs square waves, triangle waves, or stepped waved. Efficiencies decrease and costs increase with filters necessary to create 'cleaner' sine waves. Better is to increase battery life expectancy rather than clean power that no electronics need.

    If that UPS is cleaner, then posted are the spec numbers that say so (ie %THD). Many just know power must be cleaner because something subjective says so - also called a lie. Numbers are always required.

    Same consumers also do not learn that any 'clean' power is first made 'dirtiest' inside a computer. Any 'cleaning' is intentionally undone. Then 'dirtiest' power is 'cleaned' by superior regulators, filters, and galvanic isolation. All functions inside every computer that also make 'dirtier' power from a UPS irrelevant.

    OP's concern is not 'clean' power. His concern is sufficient power. Power strip protectors on any UPS is strongly discouraged by the manufacturer. In part because this is also a pure sine wave UPS output: 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts.
     
  16. Buerkletucson, Nov 9, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015

    Buerkletucson macrumors 6502

    Buerkletucson

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    #16

    Better check again.........sorry but your absolutely wrong.
    I've looked at the output of the Cyber power pure sine-wave units and its a perfect sine-wave under battery power.

    Rather than assuming or speculating or being naive.........Get out your scope and take a look for yourself. :rolleyes:

    With more and more computers/electronics now using active PFC power supplies a pure sine-wave UPS is important.



    PFC Sinewave Series
    CP1500PFCLCD
    Output
    VA 1,500
    Watts 900
    On Battery Voltage 120Vac ± 5%
    On Battery Frequency 60Hz ± 1%
    On Battery Waveform Sine Wave

    Outlets - Total 10
    Outlet Type NEMA 5-15R
    Outlets - Battery & Surge Protected 5
    Outlets - Surge-Only Protected 5
    USB Charge Port - Total 2
    USB Charging Amperage 1.0A (shared)
    Overload Protection Internal circuitry limiting / circuit breaker
    Transfer Time 4ms
     
  17. jota73 thread starter macrumors 6502

    jota73

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    South America
    #17
    thread turned a bit more complex than I expected... anyway.. now the question is:

    APC or Cyberpower?

    Planning on to buy two 1500VA..

    anyone?
     
  18. westom macrumors regular

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    Nov 8, 2009
    #18
    anyon
    Everything (at least what I posted) was layman simple. Defined was a major difference between hearsay (subjective recommendations) and informed recommendations (also says why with numbers). An example is this reply:
    No such thing as a perfect sine wave. Furthermore, no computer needs power that 'clean' since 'cleanest' power is intentionally made 'dirtiest' inside each computer.

    My UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. That output is also called a pure sine wave output. They also made a subjective claim. Subjective claim says little to nothing that is useful. Useful recommendations are always quantitative.

    Defined were two considerations. No protector must be on the output of any UPS - as manufacturers state. And power requirements. Those were answered with numbers and reasons why.

    Other posbbile considerations. Some computers have an active PFC so strigent as to become confused by AC line noise. You might consider buying one UPS just to test. Then buy a second when the first one proves to be sufficient.

    Computers for the American market do not have stringent active PFC. But if Macs were for a European market, then it might. Most likely no problem. But you might confirm the first one does not have any surprises we have not considered.

    What else do you want from that UPS? Power strip limitation and power limitations were discussed. Do you want it to also shutdown computers when power is lost for too long? Do you want it to sound an alarm on long power loss? Is battery recharge time (maybe 12 hours) too long?

    Power consumption was defined with a number and what UPS spec numbers defined. Numbers meant an informed reply was possible. For any other consideration (ie Cyberpower vs APC) means identifying those other required features and providing manufacturer specifications numbers. Then others can associate what you want with what specs are really saying.

    Otherwise recommendations can only be based in feelings (subjective recommendations) rather than from facts.

    Generally, both manufacturers are acceptable and recommended for a cheap UPS that only provides temporary and 'dirty' power. Since that is what most consumers want from a UPS. Do either discuss a replaceable battery (typically necessary in three years) using a custom or industry standard battery? Both will have important features such as a UL listing for human safety. Do you want anything else?
     
  19. jota73 thread starter macrumors 6502

    jota73

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    #19
    Explanation has been really useful, I really appreciate the time taken to write your answers.
     
  20. Buerkletucson, Nov 9, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015

    Buerkletucson macrumors 6502

    Buerkletucson

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    #20
    :rolleyes:

    When you put a oscilloscope or power analyzer to the Cyber Power please report back your results......but thats ok, I see your back-pedaling on this already. I have and know what this unit puts out....not voltage spikes or square waves as you seem to think.
    ....and please, stop with the semantics.

    Tell Acer, HP, Dell, and many other computer manufacturers.....maybe including Apple (no detailed spec) that they aren't using Active PFC power supplies in their computers. Not just limited to computers either......a lot of high end audio/videophile equipment is doing the same. They do not tolerate noisy power like that from a conventional UPS.
    It's soon becoming the standard not the exception.......you'll catch up with technology some day.

    Tell me my high-end security camera/NVR it isn't using an active PFC supply and isn't adversely affected by dirty power from a normal UPS........been there, done that. The video will become noisy and eventually the NVR will shut down the system when powered from a conventional UPS. Hum, but you know different? :oops:


    To the OP....here is some good information about the iMac power consumption.....direct from the horses mouth, Apple.
    I would personally recommend going with something like the Cyberpower CP1500PFCLCD.

    Note that El Capitan has issues with controlling UPSs when connected via USB and it will cause Time Machine to skip backups.....ask me how I know.
    Apple knows about it but it doesn't look like they are working on any fix as of yet.
    I have an open ticket with Apple........... this issue is well documented on this and other forums with UPS users.


    [​IMG]
     

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