URGENT help needed - weird hard disk noise when playing games

[50548]

Its the fan(s). I say fans based on your description of "whirring". I re-listened to your audio clip, through a pair of good klipsch over ear headphones powered by an onkyo receiver. I still can't hear anything abnormal, but I trust that there is since you're noticing it.

Theres nothing that any game or program will do to a hard drive that will make it any more or less noisy. The platters spin at a constant speed, so if that were the noise, you would hear it all the time. If it was the head seeking and reading/writing data, and it were audible enough to hear it, your drive is shot and you wouldn't be loading games much less able to return to finder.

I hope when you get it back its fixed for you. But if it is, its due to the fact they blew out some dust or reseated the fans.

Thanks, I think you're right. The AHT error message seemed to indicate the same thing; however, what still baffles me is that switching between a game and the Finder, for instance, eliminates the noise IMMEDIATELY (i.e., no ramping down).

Another intriguing point is: I've tested all fans with smcfancontrol and was NOT able to replicate the same noise even when I ramped the fans way up...so isn't there a possibility that, when seeking information, the drive IS accessing a now-faulty/soon-to-be-shot area of HDD (exactly where the concerned game files are)?

 

[jimbo1mcm]

Yeah, I would definitely make sure your Time Machine backup is up-to-date. Not using Time Machine? Run -- don't walk -- to the store and buy an external drive. (Target has external drives on sale right now.)

Now is also a good time to find your computer's restore CD/DVD.

Let us know if things go from bad to worse.

Let us know WHEN things go from bad to worse

 

[jwhazel]

Another intriguing point is: I've tested all fans with smcfancontrol and was NOT able to replicate the same noise even when I ramped the fans way up...so isn't there a possibility that, when seeking information, the drive IS accessing a now-faulty/soon-to-be-shot area of HDD (exactly where the concerned game files are)?

This is news. If you tested each fan one at a time at full speed and couldn't replicate the noise then it may very well be something else. I still very much doubt that its the drive solely based on your description. Bad sectors on platter based drives are extremely common. Simply having bad sectors does not typically create any noise. If the servo is going bad and constantly parking the armature you'll get a "thunking" noise. If its physically crashing into the platter you'll get a variety of noises. In either case both of these scenarios will almost definitely result in an infinite spinning beachball as OSX does not handle disk I/O errors very gracefully. Also if you ran the full AHT test, it would replicate this noise and very likely fail the drive.

If you would have brought this to me the first thing I would have done is connected it to another mac in target firewire mode and booted to your OS and fired up a game. Since your mac would just be acting as an external hdd and not actually doing any of the work, it would very easily expose whether the drive was making the noise or not. If it was not the drive the next thing I would have taken the lcd panel out and turned it on. Fans would run at full speed and I would move my ear around it trying to pinpoint where the noise is coming from.

It could also be from the PSU or GPU. It's really not possible to diagnose your issue over a forum. Best to see what happens when you go to pick it up and go from there. Whatever they did to it though I hope has fixed it for you.

 

[50548]

This is news. If you tested each fan one at a time at full speed and couldn't replicate the noise then it may very well be something else. I still very much doubt that its the drive solely based on your description. Bad sectors on platter based drives are extremely common. Simply having bad sectors does not typically create any noise. If the servo is going bad and constantly parking the armature you'll get a "thunking" noise. If its physically crashing into the platter you'll get a variety of noises. In either case both of these scenarios will almost definitely result in an infinite spinning beachball as OSX does not handle disk I/O errors very gracefully. Also if you ran the full AHT test, it would replicate this noise and very likely fail the drive.

If you would have brought this to me the first thing I would have done is connected it to another mac in target firewire mode and booted to your OS and fired up a game. Since your mac would just be acting as an external hdd and not actually doing any of the work, it would very easily expose whether the drive was making the noise or not. If it was not the drive the next thing I would have taken the lcd panel out and turned it on. Fans would run at full speed and I would move my ear around it trying to pinpoint where the noise is coming from.

It could also be from the PSU or GPU. It's really not possible to diagnose your issue over a forum. Best to see what happens when you go to pick it up and go from there. Whatever they did to it though I hope has fixed it for you.

Thanks again for your attentive reply. It really is an interesting situation, although I am still betting it on the HD, considering the HDD AHT error message.

The GPU could also be a possible bet; however I find this hard to believe as the noise sounded REALLY physical (unless the GPU were REALLY frying) - besides, no artifacts or crashes have ever happened when playing those games.

But I would still insist on the following scenario: the games I was playing were all stored in the HDD (as far as I can remember); wouldn't it be that the problem platters/sectors are only where those games are, but NOT YET to the point of I/O errors? What do you think?

I should have tested further but didn't want to take chances...using a separate HDD could have isolated the issue further, indeed.

 

[killerrobot]

I had a similar issue a few years ago with my iMac and had the same AHT error code. I replaced the HDD (the old one had gone bad even though it passed all SMART status and HDD tests), but the noise persisted and I finally narrowed it down to the HDD fan. Once that was replaced the error code cleared and the noise never returned.
I'd be weary of just replacing the HDD, because it was mostly the extra heat from the malfunctioning fan that caused it to fail in the first place on mine.

 

[50548]

I had a similar issue a few years ago with my iMac and had the same AHT error code. I replaced the HDD (the old one had gone bad even though it passed all SMART status and HDD tests), but the noise persisted and I finally narrowed it down to the HDD fan. Once that was replaced the error code cleared and the noise never returned.
I'd be weary of just replacing the HDD, because it was mostly the extra heat from the malfunctioning fan that caused it to fail in the first place on mine.

Yep, told this to the AASP as well; they should check not only the HDD but also the fans...

 

[jwhazel]

But I would still insist on the following scenario: the games I was playing were all stored in the HDD (as far as I can remember); wouldn't it be that the problem platters/sectors are only where those games are, but NOT YET to the point of I/O errors? What do you think?

If they were simply bad sectors, the games wouldn't load or would crash/freeze/beachball and you should hear no abnormal noise. If the armature was making contact with the platter, enough to hear a noise, your system wouldn't be booting because then its dragging it self across other sectors/platters scratching up your data.

The GPU could also be a possible bet; however I find this hard to believe as the noise sounded REALLY physical (unless the GPU were REALLY frying) - besides, no artifacts or crashes have ever happened when playing those games.

Mechanical resonance occurs often in high frequency applications like computers. Engineers try carefully to combat this in their design. Doesn't necessarily mean anything is going to imminently fail. I recently had an AMD system that liked to signal morse code to me. Was a combination of the cpu load + mobo vregs + psu. System worked great like this for months but eventually annoyed me enough that I had to part it out and switch to intel. I'm not saying its definitely your psu/gpu (I have replaced them in imacs for this exact reason though). But I'm throwing it out there as one of the many possibilities. My bet is still on the fan(s). Best to see if your AASP found anything abnormal and go from there.

 

[ZMacintosh]

Is this the drive that came with your iMac? or is it an aftermarket installed drive?

It could be certain drives like Seagate and Hitachi have some drives that are louder than others, could be the drive is vibrating while its spinning faster in the HDD Bay of the iMac causing the noise since it doesnt appear during normal usage and mainly when apps are accessing it intensively.

I doubt its the fans, pointing to either the drive itself or the drive is vibrating and needs to be reseated as it should have noise dampening gaskets there to keep it quiet.

 

[jwhazel]

Drive spins at the same speed regardless of operation or how its being accessed. It's held in place by rubber grommets. There isn't any way for it to be knocked off kilter and vibrate against the case. If that was the concern, it would be doing it constantly.

killerrobots post is pretty dead on.

I had a similar issue a few years ago with my iMac and had the same AHT error code. I replaced the HDD (the old one had gone bad even though it passed all SMART status and HDD tests), but the noise persisted and I finally narrowed it down to the HDD fan. Once that was replaced the error code cleared and the noise never returned.

 

[50548]

Drive spins at the same speed regardless of operation or how its being accessed. It's held in place by rubber grommets. There isn't any way for it to be knocked off kilter and vibrate against the case. If that was the concern, it would be doing it constantly.

killerrobots post is pretty dead on.

Guys, actually I've got the answer - EUREKA is the word..!

But first, a little update: remember when I said I was taking it to an AASP here in Switzerland? Well, I did and gave the technician some probable hints.

However, he didn't discover anything related to the fans, nor could he notice some strange noise - in fact, he didn't even open the iMac to find out what the problem was. He just tested it through the AHT and other software tests, and told me there was nothing wrong.

A bit disappointed, I brought the computer home again and started using it (even with games such as CS:GO) - strangely, the noise wasn't there anymore.

But today, after starting again a game the noise reappeared...I ramped up the fans manually, but realized the noise was NOT associated with them...it just kept coming back THE MOMENT I switched back to the game (which as you know is normally played at a different gamma rate).

So I finally had my EUREKA moment (based on a previous problem I had with an old iMac): I turned the brightness all the way up and down, and BANG! There it is! The problem is related to the brightness levels, which when changed to a certain level (as is the case for many games) end up causing this static noise.

In other words, it's most probably the DISPLAY INVERTER...but as long as I keep brightness levels the way they normally are with my iMac, there is no issue to report.

In any case, do you think it's worth taking it again to the AASP to change this component? I personally don't think so, but await your kind replies again.

 

[Johnf1285]

Guys, actually I've got the answer - EUREKA is the word..!

But first, a little update: remember when I said I was taking it to an AASP here in Switzerland? Well, I did and gave the technician some probable hints.

However, he didn't discover anything related to the fans, nor could he notice some strange noise - in fact, he didn't even open the iMac to find out what the problem was. He just tested it through the AHT and other software tests, and told me there was nothing wrong.

A bit disappointed, I brought the computer home again and started using it (even with games such as CS:GO) - strangely, the noise wasn't there anymore.

But today, after starting again a game the noise reappeared...I ramped up the fans manually, but realized the noise was NOT associated with them...it just kept coming back THE MOMENT I switched back to the game (which as you know is normally played at a different gamma rate).

So I finally had my EUREKA moment (based on a previous problem I had with an old iMac): I turned the brightness all the way up and down, and BANG! There it is! The problem is related to the brightness levels, which when changed to a certain level (as is the case for many games) end up causing this static noise.

In other words, it's most probably the DISPLAY INVERTER...but as long as I keep brightness levels the way they normally are with my iMac, there is no issue to report.

In any case, do you think it's worth taking it again to the AASP to change this component? I personally don't think so, but await your kind replies again.

I read your first post, and then sifted through each response to see if anyone mentioned what I thought the cause was. I don't think they did.

Anyhow, your noise is related to the power supply. Both the computer's power supply and the LED panel inverter is located on the upper left hand corner (near Apple logo), if you are looking at the screen.

The sound is more than likely "coil whine" from the PSU or possibly a defective inverter board for the LED panel.

I would have it checked out if it's under warranty.

 

[50548]

I read your first post, and then sifted through each response to see if anyone mentioned what I thought the cause was. I don't think they did.

Anyhow, your noise is related to the power supply. Both the computer's power supply and the LED panel inverter is located on the upper left hand corner (near Apple logo), if you are looking at the screen.

The sound is more than likely "coil whine" from the PSU or possibly a defective inverter board for the LED panel.

I would have it checked out if it's under warranty.

Yep, that's exactly where the noise comes from.

It's no longer under warranty - in any case, I am positive it's the inverter because the "whine" only happens when brightness levels are changed to certain specific points and when the screen is already "warm"...

But my question is: might this lead to a total blackout of the screen, or is it OK as long as I am not annoyed by it?

 

[jwhazel]

I just re-read too. For some reason I erroneously though you had ruled out the brightness. Although I find it odd that your brightness is switching simply by launching a game

Could be psu or inverter board. You don't have this plugged into a UPS by any chance do you? As long as you're not annoyed by it, its fine. Although it may get to a point where either one of these boards will die and need replaced. Theres no way of knowing till it happens.

 

[Johnf1285]

Yep, that's exactly where the noise comes from.

It's no longer under warranty - in any case, I am positive it's the inverter because the "whine" only happens when brightness levels are changed to certain specific points and when the screen is already "warm"...

But my question is: might this lead to a total blackout of the screen, or is it OK as long as I am not annoyed by it?

How handy are you? The inverter board can be had for $99 (by request) and the PSU for $109 according to Apple Components.com to give you an idea of the cost. The only issue is popping the glass off and carefully removing the LED panel and ensuring that no dust gets trapped in between. Other than that, repairs are pretty simple if you have patience and the right tools.

Worst case scenario, you just leave it be and if it craps out in a few years, just replace the part(s). My money is on the inverter making the noise. It may be ok though. It may not. Either way, there are parts out there. You may even be able to find them cheaper too!

 

[50548]

I just re-read too. For some reason I erroneously though you had ruled out the brightness. Although I find it odd that your brightness is switching simply by launching a game

Could be psu or inverter board. You don't have this plugged into a UPS by any chance do you? As long as you're not annoyed by it, its fine. Although it may get to a point where either one of these boards will die and need replaced. Theres no way of knowing till it happens.

1 - Very simple reason: games such as Steam FPS and others change the screen's gamma depending on their specific configurations. Therefore, brightness goes way up compared to my usual Finder settings.

2 - Most probably the inverter board, as I notice no energy oscillations whatsoever...the iMac is connected to a power surge protector and that's all.

How handy are you? The inverter board can be had for $99 (by request) and the PSU for $109 according to Apple Components.com to give you an idea of the cost. The only issue is popping the glass off and carefully removing the LED panel and ensuring that no dust gets trapped in between. Other than that, repairs are pretty simple if you have patience and the right tools.

Worst case scenario, you just leave it be and if it craps out in a few years, just replace the part(s). My money is on the inverter making the noise. It may be ok though. It may not. Either way, there are parts out there. You may even be able to find them cheaper too!

1 - I have been handy before but would still avoid accessing the iMac's innards given the weight of the screen and the number of connected cables. As you say, once things really turn sour I can take it to an AASP, or buy a new Mac (if the problem only happens some two years from now)...

 

[50548]

Just a follow-up reply: it seems like the buzz got worse today, just as I was encoding some videos with Handbrake - turning up the brightness makes things even worse, of course...

GPU diode currently indicating 65 degrees Celsius, GPU heatsink 59 degrees. What is confusing me now is that this doesn't seem EXCLUSIVELY related to brightness, but may involve the GPU or perhaps heat levels around it as well...what do you think?

 

[Johnf1285]

Just a follow-up reply: it seems like the buzz got worse today, just as I was encoding some videos with Handbrake - turning up the brightness makes things even worse, of course...

GPU diode currently indicating 65 degrees Celsius, GPU heatsink 59 degrees. What is confusing me now is that this doesn't seem EXCLUSIVELY related to brightness, but may involve the GPU or perhaps heat levels around it as well...what do you think?

Might be coil whine from the PSU itself, and not any sort of noise from the inverter board.

 

[50548]

Might be coil whine from the PSU itself, and not any sort of noise from the inverter board.

Where is the PSU located on the 27" iMac? The noise seems to come from the top part of the computer (more or less center-top left from the user's perspective).

Following some GPU stress tests, I can clearly see the whine increasing with graphics activity.

Would a SMC reset or a surge protector minimize the problem?

p.s.: Am using it at full brightness for testing purposes - in fact, just reloading a page increases the noise now...does this kind of activity relate to PSU power consumption surges?

 

[Johnf1285]

Where is the PSU located on the 27" iMac? The noise seems to come from the top part of the computer (more or less center-top left from the user's perspective).

Following some GPU stress tests, I can clearly see the whine increasing with graphics activity.

Would a SMC reset or a surge protector minimize the problem?

p.s.: Am using it at full brightness for testing purposes - in fact, just reloading a page increases the noise now...does this kind of activity relate to PSU power consumption surges?

I circled them in blue. The one on the left is the inverter board, the one on the right is the PSU.

 

[50548]

I circled them in blue. The one on the left is the inverter board, the one on the right is the PSU.

Indeed, it checks out with the apparent source of noise...the whine seems to increase with a mix of:

- Higher internal temperatures;
- higher graphics demand;
- higher power requirements.

Is this just something that happens normally or should I take it to an AASP?

 

[Johnf1285]

Indeed, it checks out with the apparent source of noise...the whine seems to increase with a mix of:

- Higher internal temperatures;
- higher graphics demand;
- higher power requirements.

Is this just something that happens normally or should I take it to an AASP?

I would have it checked out by someone if you are not comfortable doing the work yourself (if I recall, you said it's out of warranty). I know, from experience, in the PC world when a PSU takes a dump it can claim a few items with it. It would be a shame to have it go out and take out the logic board of a GPU or screen or something.

I think a PSU can be sourced for around $100. Not sure what an AASP would charge for this sort of repair though.

Good luck and I hope you get the problem sorted out!

 

[50548]

I would have it checked out by someone if you are not comfortable doing the work yourself (if I recall, you said it's out of warranty). I know, from experience, in the PC world when a PSU takes a dump it can claim a few items with it. It would be a shame to have it go out and take out the logic board of a GPU or screen or something.

I think a PSU can be sourced for around $100. Not sure what an AASP would charge for this sort of repair though.

Good luck and I hope you get the problem sorted out!

Thanks, I will probably take it to an AASP (not really convenient for a big iMac).

Just so I can understand, then...the PSU is whining because it's not being able to cope with power demands (iMac + connected peripherals) or what?

 

[Johnf1285]

Thanks, I will probably take it to an AASP (not really convenient for a big iMac).

Just so I can understand, then...the PSU is whining because it's not being able to cope with power demands (iMac + connected peripherals) or what?

It's not a result of it struggling to meet demands. Many say coil whine isn't a big deal, while others say the PSU should be replaced. This is according to many people on various overclocking communities online in regard to typical PC parts. The sound is the various components vibrating and resonating at certain frequencies resulting in a whining sound due to the amount of current going through them. However, I'm not 100% sold on it being a "non issue' though.

It's tough for me to suggest what you should do as I am the type that would attempt to fix it myself if it isn't under any sort of warranty.

Maybe you should reach out to the AASP to get an idea of the cost and what their take on the situation is. Hopefully they know what you're talking about (they better if they're any sort of a reputable technician). Hope this helps!

 

[50548]

Thanks again for all your comments - another thing I read elsewhere was that a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) may help against this whine (if it's a PSU one, of course) - what do you think?

 

[50548]

Just in case anyone else is facing similar problems, I have finally identified the source of the issue without any doubt - after having my iMac opened in front of me, the technician showed that the buzz came from the PSU and NOT the backlight board (which he disconnected on the spot to show me that it was not the culprit).

He also told me that he had seen only one or two other similar cases, and that PSU problems were not really common.

I will have it replaced (for 200 dollars) within the next three days...much better than I expected..!