USB 3.0 News, Discussion, Predictions

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by PracticalMac, Jul 9, 2009.

  1. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
    USB 3.0 is the next version of USB, promising 10x faster transfer rates then USB 2.0, but it does so by piggy-backing (adding to) a completely different sets of hardware to the existing USB, so in effect it is 2 different systems labeled under the same name.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb#USB_3.0
    http://www.usb.org/developers/ssusb

    The first mass produced devices are anticipated in sometime in 2010, and until enough hosts (PC's) are on the market and enough peripherals are made we really will not know how good the Frankenstein USB3 is.


    USB3 will have a difficult time to enter the market becuase at this time their are many choices of ports that perform the job quite well, for less.

    *External storage USB3 vs eSATA: eSATA clear winner becuase it is far cheaper and more common long before USB3 is on the market. Sure it is point-to-point, but how hard is it to add another connector on the back of a computer? Oh, and typical low end single HDD's do not come close to taxing the ports limit (FW 800 is almost able to keep up with low RPM HDD as is). Upcoming eSATA III potentially will offer 6.0Gbps, beating USB3 easily.

    *Pro Digital Audio and Video USB3 vs FireWire: FW is clear winner simply becuase it is an industry accepted and preferred. FireWire was built with video data transfer in mind, and is arguably perfect for this mission. Even if USB3 is better (and it is not when you compare FW and USB3 specs), studios will be reluctant to spend huge $$$ to replace a perfectly good, reliable, and well known connection.

    *Consumer Digital Video USB3 vs USB2: USB2 is the leader becuase in the consumer level camcorders every dollar counts, and second becuase of the hundreds of millions of USB2 computers already out there. Yes, USB3 will have a difficult battle with its older sibling for a few years.

    *Networking USB3 vs Giganet (or 10 Giganet (10Gbase-X)): Not even a contest. Giganet is even poised to replace USB2 and FW as the port of choice for high bandwidth uses. USB3 may be forced to have a 10 foot max cable length.

    *HDTV's USB3 vs HDMI: Lawyers will never allow USB3 as a way to transfer content, even with DRM. Expect the Motion Picture and Music Industry to fight this (they could lose, eventually).

    *Industrial cameras: There are 3 protocols, CameraLink, Giganet, and FireWire (USB2 is not even considered). CameraLink is invincible to USB3. Giganet is safe. FW is also safe for a low cost high quality camera bus, but is losing out of Giganet in zone monitoring installations.

    USB3 will find niche uses and may eventually be a common port, but it will be years away. I guess scanners and flash card will be the first to see wide spread adoption. Likely with USB drives and MP3 players, but it will be niche for a long time.

    I predict soonest Apple will add USB3 to a Mac is 2012, more like 2013

    iPods may not have USB3 for a long time, depending on the size of the chip, possibly power usage. USB3 provides only 0.9amp of power, and that is less then ideal for Video iPod (read about current USB2 V iPod users with dying batteries cannot us it on USB2, must connect the FireWire cable for charging)


    IOW, it is premature to think USB3 will be the port of choice next year. It will be a long time before we know what will transpire.

    :apple::apple::apple:

    This is the new cables and connectors for USB 3.

    New "B" end
    [​IMG]

    "A" connector stack
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Cramming a lot of wire in a tiny space.

    "Mini-B" for camcorders (this one is really questionable on its value, better a new, smaller design?)
    [​IMG]

    Backward compatibility for the B connectors by tacking on extension to the housing, much like adding on an extension to your house.

    241 views and no comments?


    Mac users prefer FireWire (still a much better protocol) and don't give $0.01 about USB 3?

    Or was I pretty much on mark on predictions? (I cant be 100% right).
     
  2. AMessy macrumors member

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    #2
    Honestly I think it's too early for me to care either way. I know devices will be available with it next year but I imagine it will be much further down the road until it is really standard.

    I imagine when purchasing my next machine (~3 years) i'll have to consider USB3, but by then maybe I won't have a choice either way.

    For what its worth I have been a firewire fan for the last 10 years, both FW400 and FW800. Over the years I've always chose to use FW External drives.
     
  3. Michael CM1 macrumors 603

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    #3
    Unless you're using a DV camcorder, I don't get the allure of FireWire compared to USB 3. For external drives, none of it is as fast as internal or as slow as over a network. Most of my external drive use is for playing video, and it works fine via USB 2 except for when the hard drive has to start up from sleep mode, which takes a few seconds.

    I know FireWire streams the data instead of using packets, but now that video is moving to HDD and SSD cameras, that's much less of an issue. I have a HDD camera, so I have little use for FW. If USB 3 bumps speeds up that much, it could possibly be a death knell for FireWire. If Windows computers trend the Apple and netbook way and keep shrinking, others could make FW the first on the cut list.

    I know FW is working on increasing speeds as well, but with most devices being USB-only or cheaper with just USB (external HDDs), I think that's gonna hurt.

    On such a note, if someone wants to klil the ethernet port on a few computers, I wouldn't mind. I almost never use the one on my MacBook Pro, and it just takes up room that could possibly be a third USB port.
     
  4. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #4
    I'm the patient type. I can deal with USb 1.1 speeds. :)
     
  5. AMessy macrumors member

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    #5
    I used FW400 because it seemed faster than USB 1, now I use FW800 because it seems faster than USB 2. These are just observations i've made during my typical use.

    I'll have no problem switching to USB 3 when it comes out assuming it lives up to its advertised speeds and becomes common.
     
  6. Michael CM1 macrumors 603

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    #6
    I've got a Minimate HDD (the one that looks like a Mac Mini) hooked up via FW, and another with USB. I really can't tell any difference. I used to have a hard drive or two on the network, but it got too darn slow to use for any video.
     
  7. MWPULSE macrumors 6502a

    MWPULSE

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    #7
    i get the impression from my on looking around that USB3 is still going to be the en mass transfer underdog, you have ethernet, firewire 1200 coming out soon enough, and the older standards-which have proven to be reliable no end. (usb2, firewire800 etc)

    PTP
     
  8. sl1200mk2 macrumors 6502

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    Oct 17, 2006
    #8

    Most people associate FW with video, but it's still a very popular interface for midi and audio devices, probably more so than USB for the exact reasons you mentioned. It's generally regarded as much more stable and less prone to sensitivity and glitches from the host hardware or OS.

    I personally prefer FW for any video or audio application and don't want to see it go. eSata is the logical choice for hi performance, multi-drive external enclosures. I'd love to see Apple include an eSata interface on both iMacs and Mac Pros. That'd be a big bonus for the audio, video and photography crowds.

    I see USB 3.0 being eventually accepted and widely used, but not having nearly the quick adoption rate that 2.0 did. I don't think most consumers have a need for it.
     
  9. MacBoobsPro macrumors 603

    MacBoobsPro

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    #9
    I find USB annoying and much prefer FireWire.

    I find that USB 1 & 2 start of slow peak at the maximum rate then get slower towards the end of a transfer. FireWire is a constant speed and works much faster.

    Why Apple keep pissing around with FireWire I dont know. I bought a MacBookPro recently and while I'm glad to see firewire back, its FW800 so none on my 400 stuff will work with it. So Im stuck using my 1TB iTunes library via USB. :mad:
     
  10. Chundles macrumors G4

    Chundles

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    #10
    FW800 is backwards compatible. All you need is a cable or adapter, they're pretty cheap.
     
  11. pilotError macrumors 68020

    pilotError

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    #11
    Firewire is dead. Even 3rd party support is more or less abandoning the standard.

    eSata never really caught on. You see external drive cases with them, but for the most part, the standard never really took off.

    USB3 will most likely be the next big standard. It's also backward compatible, so the millions of external drives that were shipped will still continue to work.

    Asus had committed to ship a Motherboard with USB 3 ports on it this year (Q3?), but pulled it back at the last minute with no real explanation. If vendors can sell more hardware to people who want the latest and greatest, you'll see very early adoption. Remember there's a premium on early adoption!

    Cable companies want to sell all new cables instead of what you already have stuffed in a drawer. PCI Card manufacturers will want to sell kits for anyone who doesn't want to buy another motherboard / computer just for USB 3 and would like the performance. Motherboard Manufacturers... you get the idea.

    I would venture to say that if Asus was willing to put USB3 chipsets on motherboards, the cost isn't really an issue. You may even see the next generation of iMac's show up with USB3 ports on the back.

    Now that the performance is there, I would think that you will start to see HD Enclosures and probably HD Video cameras supporting the standard as well. Anything to speed up that process for the consumer is going to win, especially with something that most non-computer literate understand. People understand USB, their printers, digitals cameras, external disks, scanners, etc., all use USB in the large majority of hardware sold Ask them if they know what eSata is and you'll get a blank stare in most cases.
     
  12. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #12
    For commercial products, its arguably true.

    For industrial applications, it is protocol of choice.
    The F-35 JST uses it extensively.
    It has also be approved for use in space (extreme environment) for the ISS and satellites (USB has not).

    And so far for audio/visual studio's there is no replacement.


    I see more new computers with eSATA, especially laptops. It takes time for consumers to be aware of it, but with Best Buy wanting to sell "pricey" eSATA devices (much higher margin then USB), it may explode on the market this Christmas.
     
  13. WickedRabbit macrumors regular

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    #13
    Prediction: Apple will adopt it when USB 4.0 is about to come out.
     
  14. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #14
    I just want one type of cable that does everything, and one type of port to go with it.

    Wake me up when they sort that out..
     
  15. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #15
    Dude.
    Never will happen.











    It will be all wireless!! :D
     
  16. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #16
    haha true true :p



    Hurry up with that then :mad:
     
  17. rcf-dds macrumors member

    rcf-dds

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    #17
    seriously, how long until EVERYTHING is wireless???

    even AC POWER? what a thought
     
  18. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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  19. matteusclement macrumors 65816

    matteusclement

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    #19
    "I personally prefer FW for any video or audio application and don't want to see it go. eSata is the logical choice for hi performance, multi-drive external enclosures. I'd love to see Apple include an eSata interface on both iMacs and Mac Pros. That'd be a big bonus for the audio, video and photography crowds."

    man, would I wet my pants with happiness if I had e-sata on my imac. The irony is my older MBP can have an eSata card. :mad:

    Ever since my first minidv camcorder, I have used nothing but firewire. Can you daisy chain USB? No.
     
  20. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #20
    eSATA and CameraLink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_Link) are the 2 fastest external buses.

    Both are dedicated point-2-point connections, eSATA uses 2 pair of wires, while CL uses quite a bit more.

    USB 3 promises to achieve better performance then those on a hub-and-spoke system.
    I really wonder if that claim is real or a boast? Of course if it was Fiber Optic in a point-to-point connection it may do it, but in real world setup, I really wonder.

    Remember, while USB2 claims 480 Mb/s, its true transfer speed is more like 300Mb/s.
     
  21. gauchogolfer macrumors 603

    gauchogolfer

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    #21
    I love CameraLink. We use it at work all the time, when possible.
    I just got some new iPASS cables for PCIe that are super sweet.
     
  22. matteusclement macrumors 65816

    matteusclement

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    #22
    I'm pretty tech savy, but I could not understand what camera link was from the wiki. someone be able to break it down?

    300mb/s for USB2?
    Only if I am doing nothing on my computer does it go that fast. Not terribly practical to have a imac paper weight. :D
    I just like the reliability of FW, it's constant speed transfer and again... DAISY CHAIN.
     
  23. gauchogolfer macrumors 603

    gauchogolfer

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    #23
    CameraLink is a format that (as you might have guessed from its name) is popular for high data rate video. It consists of pairs of LVDS wires (Low Voltage Differential Signal) which are capable of very high data transmission rates. Since it's a differential signal, it has the benefit of common-mode rejection, allowing the total voltage swing to be small. Small voltage swing means fast rise times, thus high speed (at relatively low power also).
     
  24. matteusclement macrumors 65816

    matteusclement

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    #24
    whoa.
    is that how a holodeck runs? :p

    sounds like mighty stuff.
     
  25. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #25
    Yeup, a couple of Full Configuration links.

    That and FW 800 :p


    Oh, and its Mb/s.
    As in, USB operates <300Mb/s throughput.
     

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