Hello everyone. I have a 21.5 "mid 2011 iMac with OS 10.13.6 (the latest installable). I have a problem with the non-optimal functioning of a USB audio interface and precisely a Behringer UMC202HD. From what is indicated by the manufacturer's indications this external device does not require the installation of specific drivers when connected to a MAC because it provides optimal results by interfacing with the CORE AUDIO which, as far as I know, are part of the OS of the MAC. In my case, on the other hand, the performance is, with regard to latency, decidedly disappointing (more than 10 ms) while if it is connected to a PC with WIN 10 and with the specific drivers, the value is only 4 ms. I had the doubt that in my iMAC the CORE AUDIO drivers are no longer present because perhaps they were accidentally uninstalled in the past or that they are present but in an outdated version. I have tried in vain to "find" them in the various folders of the MAC but evidently if there are they have hidden them well, to the point that even by contacting Apple's assistance by phone I have not been able to have exact indications. At this point I ask you if anyone knows exactly how their presence can be verified by arriving at the folder that contains them. The second thing I would like to know is if the version of the Core Audio of the latest OS can be different from that of 10.13.6. Thanks a lot.
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USB audio interface and Core Audio
- Thread starter gibelma
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Have you considered looking for a used firewire-based interface?
That will take care of the latency problems.
I'd suggest Steinberg or Echo Audiofire. Can probably be found on ebay in good shape for good prices.
Firewire is CORE Audio compliant, but has none of the latency problems of USB...
That will take care of the latency problems.
I'd suggest Steinberg or Echo Audiofire. Can probably be found on ebay in good shape for good prices.
Firewire is CORE Audio compliant, but has none of the latency problems of USB...
Impossible unless you moved them from a location you don't even know.
They are part of the system. They do get upgraded with system updates, so there is no way you have an "outdated" version, as you would need to install them manually to a location you don't even know. And then some.
They are where all the system Kernel Extensions are, /System/Library/Extensions
If your interface does produce sound (and it does, it's the delay you are complaining about), then you have the right drivers. It's just the USB interface latency, which actually has more to do with the number of USB devices hooked up to the computer simultaneously than anything else.
And please do not try to mess with the Kernel Extensions.
Hi. Thanks a lot for the reply. So I have to be sure that the CoreAudio drivers are present in my MAC. However, the interface does not give the best results as regards latency (there are no other USB devices connected to the MAC). The driver version is that of OS 10.13.6 of my MAC. Now there is OS 10.14.3 and probably the CoreAudio drivers are also updated. Probably my Behringer interface gives the best results with the latest versions. I should buy a new MAC but I prefer to use it with a Win10 PC that I already own and with which I get a latency of 4 ms with specific drivers.
Just a question. You wrote that to find CoreAudio drivers the path is / System / Library / Extensions. I have tried but in my MAC they are not there. You can see everything in the Extensions folder below. Or maybe they are called in a different way? Were you able to find them? Thanks one more time .
Extensions
ACS6x.kext
ArcMSR.kext
ATTOCelerityFC8.kext
ATTOExpressSASHBA2.kext
ATTOExpressSASRAID2.kext
CalDigitHDProDrv.kext
EPSONUSBPrintClass.kext
FileAccessControl.kext
HighPointIOP.kext
HighPointRR.kext
PromiseSTEX.kext
RDUSB0158Dev.kext
SoftRAID.kext
ufsd_NTFS.kext
Just a question. You wrote that to find CoreAudio drivers the path is / System / Library / Extensions. I have tried but in my MAC they are not there. You can see everything in the Extensions folder below. Or maybe they are called in a different way? Were you able to find them? Thanks one more time .
Extensions
ACS6x.kext
ArcMSR.kext
ATTOCelerityFC8.kext
ATTOExpressSASHBA2.kext
ATTOExpressSASRAID2.kext
CalDigitHDProDrv.kext
EPSONUSBPrintClass.kext
FileAccessControl.kext
HighPointIOP.kext
HighPointRR.kext
PromiseSTEX.kext
RDUSB0158Dev.kext
SoftRAID.kext
ufsd_NTFS.kext
You are in the wrong Library. You are in /Library/Extensions folder.
You will find the real extensions folder in /System/Library/Extensions, where you should see at least 300 .kext files.
Searching around a bit --- CoreAudio is not simply an extension, but is a framework, integrated within the system - so look in the Frameworks folder.
More detailed information - here...
If you feel that some part of the system is missing (or somehow damaged), then simply reinstall your current system. If you are correct about some integral part of your system is not installed (or incorrectly installed), then a system reinstall should take care of that.
More detailed information - here...
If you feel that some part of the system is missing (or somehow damaged), then simply reinstall your current system. If you are correct about some integral part of your system is not installed (or incorrectly installed), then a system reinstall should take care of that.
I purchased this USB interface to use it with Jamkazam which is a program to play in live session with other online musicians. The program, in "Audio Gear set up", makes you identify the input and output device and provides you with the latency data of the device. Then of course, during the session, there is a total latency determined also by the latency of the WEB transmission and by the latency of the devices of the other online musicians. However, the latency data of your device is provided by the program. The Behiringer UMC202HD is one of the most used devices because it has a latency of just 4 ms with a fairly low price. In fact, if connected to the PC with Win10 and with specific Behringer drivers I get these 4 ms. I should also get them with the MAC with the CoreAudio drivers but this does not happen because the latency is 11 ms. For this reason it occurred to me that in my MAC the CoreAudio drives were absent but I was told in previous posts that it is not possible because otherwise the audio of the MAC speakers would not work either. At this point, before reinstalling OS, I wanted to check their presence to be sure but evidently it is not so easy .....
They do not have a "CoreAudio" name anywhere. They may be called AppleUSBAudio.kext or IOAudioFamily.kext (a lot of 3rd party drivers is implemented as a plugin to the latter but it's not a given standard, there are CoreAudio compliant drivers that are installed separately, Native Instruments does that for example).
You need to understand that CoreAudio is a framework, a name for a concept that is realised through a bunch of drivers that are communicating with applications in a standardised way - which makes them CoreAudio compliant. Whether they are Apple drivers or 3rd party drivers - if they "talk" to hardware and applications using a "common language" they are CoreAudio compliant. All Apple audio drivers are. Most (if not all) 3rd party drivers are as well, I have yet to find an audio device that is not.
Yes, once you update your OS, the CoreAudio drivers get updated as well. But I wouldn't place my bet on that using the latest available OS (which means lates drivers) will improve your situation dramatically. The USB audio latency has a lot to do with the available USB bandwidth, CPU usage, free RAM - to name just a few.
My 8-core Mac Pro 2,1 sometimes struggled with ~60 ms latency in Traktor DJ studio using a simple USB adapter. My 12-core 5,1 is comfortable with ~7 ms.
If you don't want to change the computer, a FireWire audio interface is a much smarter route.
Ps: did you install the "All software" package from https://www.behringer.com/Categories/Behringer/Computer-Audio/Interfaces/UMC202HD/p/P0BJZ/Downloads ?
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Hi gibelma - I am dealing with a similar issue with a brand new USB Behringer UMC404HD for use on my 2012 MacBookPro running El Capitan OSX 10.11.6 - for use with JamKazam (great program - we have been singing 4 part a cappella for 6 wk now). When first plugged in the audio latency was very high (15ms ? I forget - was very disappointed) That was running the 404 at its default max sample rate of 192khz and I got error messages that the input and output sample rates were different. Ended up degrading the sample rates to the lowest possible 44.1kHz (Mac - Applications - Utilities - Audio MIDI Setup.app). Now the Audio Latency as recorded by JamKazam is 9.8ms - that is for the 2.5ms Audio Frame Size (default). You can change the Audio Frame Size (JamKazam - Manage-Audio Settings-Audio Booster). At the lowest setting (1ms - experimental) I now get an Audio Latency of 6.8ms. At this setting my machine is stable - no pops or clicks. So this is better, but still not the 4ms you are getting with the Windows machine. I am curious to find out why the Mac Core Audio is so much worse than the Windows with ASIO drivers. To make an equal comparison, what is the sample rate and the Audio Frame Size that you are using with the Windows machine? To answer your question about the missing drivers - you and I have the same issue, and the latency can be adjusted with the Frame Size - so I'm guessing you have the correct drivers in Core Audio. hwojtec has a good comment about inherent USB latency issues - maybe going to Firewire is the answer. Does his comment mean that basically your Windows machine has a better USB latency compared to the Mac - and the difference is not related to a problem with the Core Audio? Your last post was a month ago - have you had any more revelations on how to get the Behringer to work better?
Hi Jim Clark. I am sending you some screens from which you can get the information you ask for. There is no word "Audio Frame Size" but perhaps one of the indicated parameters corresponds to it. The Behringer USB interfaces of the HD series (202, 204, 404) allow a latency of 4.2 ms only if you use the specific drivers that are downloaded from their site. If you use other drivers in WIN, like ASIO 4 All for example, you don't get the same low values. And the same thing evidently happens with Core Audio which is not a specific driver. The problem is that Behringer has created specific drivers for Win and not for MAC. For MAC they say there is no need to install their drivers because Core Audio is enough. They forgot to say that however you do not get the best possible performance.
Hi Gibelma - thanks for the screen shots of your ASIO setup. I am no expert on this, but I see your sample rate is 48,000Hz and the buffer size is 8 samples (very low I believe). I tried to mimic this on the Mac. In Applications-Utilities-AudioMidiSetup there is a setting for the clock rate - this defaulted to 192,000 when I first started, and gave very poor latency (35ms) - it can be set to 48,000 (snapshot 1). In JamKazam - Audio Gear Setup it recognized the UMC404 and calculated an audio latency of 9.29 (snapshot 2). Then go into Jamkazam and start a test session, and go to Manage-Audio Settings-Audio Booster and adjust the Audio Frame Size (my default was 2.5ms) to the lowest value (1ms experimental) (snapshot 3). Then back to JamKazam main screen and highlight the detail circle : I now show an audio latency of 6.3ms
I know that is still not the 4.0 you are getting with Windows - but it is better than the 13 (or 35) that I started with.
It would be interesting to run JamKazam with the same audio interface on a Mac in native mode and in Windows mode using Boot Camp. i.e. exactly the same hardware but with different operating systems.
I see that Focusrite makes the Scarlet USB interface, and has a specific "small program insert" that decreases the buffer size on the Mac Core Audio. They claim it can gain about 1 ms in most cases - but in some cases will make it worse.
support.focusrite.com
I haven't tried that yet.
Thanks for sharing your information.
Every bit helps.
Jim
I know that is still not the 4.0 you are getting with Windows - but it is better than the 13 (or 35) that I started with.
It would be interesting to run JamKazam with the same audio interface on a Mac in native mode and in Windows mode using Boot Camp. i.e. exactly the same hardware but with different operating systems.
I see that Focusrite makes the Scarlet USB interface, and has a specific "small program insert" that decreases the buffer size on the Mac Core Audio. They claim it can gain about 1 ms in most cases - but in some cases will make it worse.
How can I improve latency using my 2nd/3rd Gen Scarlett & Clarett USB interfaces on Mac
Applies to: Scarlett 2nd Gen, Scarlett 3rd Gen and Clarett USB The Focusrite Low Latency Installer download link is located at the end of this article. We have developed a small app that allows Ma...
Thanks for sharing your information.
Every bit helps.
Jim