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USB-IF Confusingly Merges USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 Under New USB 3.2 Branding

Fixey said:
What a fkn mess, Thunderbolt 3 that’s on all macs using type-c is 40, twist of the the new USB-C spec and Thunderbolt 3 can do USB and as it is faster should all macs with Thunderbolt 3 can’t just do the 20 now

And what do macs have now, 3.1 or 3.2, I don’t care what the fk they call it I have USB 4.0 and Thunderbolt 3, the history is really USB 1.0 1.1 2.0 3.0 4.0 and now 5.0
Just stop fk around and keep it simple
Click to expand...
Thunderbolt 3 is not capable of outputting a USB signal. Thunderbolt is a protocol. USB Type-C can use either the USB protocol, or optionally a number of other protocols, including Thunderbolt, DisplayPort, among others.
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cocky jeremy said:
USB 4.0 is USB 3.1 Gen 5 and USB 3.0 Gen 8, as well as USB 2 Gen 45. Don't confuse this was USB 4.0 Gen .5 which is also USB 3.7 Gen 1.5
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You see, now if everyone could just give as clear an explanation as this, we'd all get it.
T9gmxTJtc1DzFMILu2qlOiIOPc99gHHTnvBVAn0E00U.gif
 
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Undecided said:
Maybe I'm forcing it but sense can be made of the naming. Try this:

3.2 Gen 1 = (3 + 2) * 1 = 5gbps
3.2 Gen 2 = (3 + 2) * 2 = 10gbps
3.2 Gen 2x2 = (3 + 2) * 2 * 2 = 20gbps
Click to expand...

Always a good sign for branding when you need to derive a mathematical series to figure out what’s going on.
 
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One reason I don't want iPhone switching to USB-C, which literally everyone here seems to be talking about.
 
timber said:
Remember video card resolutions? VGA? Super VGA? Ultra? Extra? Wtf VGA and who knows more?
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I don’t know if it is some committee or who knows what, but while I consider them irrelevant and ready for history, there are still “VGA” resolutions. WHUXGA is a thing and a 8k kind of resolution, the letters stand for Wide Hexa Ultra Extended Graphics Array.
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now i see it said:
That pretty much sums it up. That and IEEE 802.11ac. Brilliant
Click to expand...
Don’t forget Wave 2.
 
1. How is Thunderbolt 3 affected by the application of USB Alternate Mode?
[Most likely, it can only cap to USB "SuperSpeed" 10Gbps -- not the new-fangled dual-lane USB "SuperSpeed" 20Gbps]
​
2. Apple has gone all-in with Thunderbolt 3. Looking like Apple "jumped-the-shark" with that decision.
[Specially because Thunderbolt Active cables are useless as they only implement native Thunderbolt encapsulation -- neither USB nor displayPort alternate modes.]
​
Purchasing proper cables is officially now FUBAR.
​
 
All they have to do is keep the revision numbers out of consumers faces and lost the cables like this......


USB-A 5Gbps
USB-A 10Gbps
USB-C 5Gbps
USB-C 10Gbps
USB-C 20Gbps
USB-C Thunderbolt 40Gbps
 
DoctorTim said:
“Apple is often an early adopter of new USB technology” lol. This is the same company that for years wouldn’t update to USB3 so they could push the travesty that was early Thunderbolt.
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They didn't adopt USB 3 because Intel was their USB host vendor, and Intel was years late to the party with silicon to support 3.
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SoyCapitanSoyCapitan said:
All they have to do is keep the revision numbers out of consumers faces and lost the cables like this......


USB-A 5Gbps
USB-A 10Gbps
USB-C 5Gbps
USB-C 10Gbps
USB-C 20Gbps
USB-C Thunderbolt 40Gbps
Click to expand...

You probably mean
Low Speed USB (1.5 Mbit)
Full Speed USB (11 Mbit)
High Speed USB (480 Mbit)
Superspeed USB (5 Gbps)
Superspeed USB 10 Gbps (10 Gbps)
Superspeed USB 20 Gbps (20 Gbps)

It's not like it is the USB-IF's fault that the tech press refuses to use the user/marketing names, then gets all confused by the engineering names.

For why USB 3.0 is 3.1 Gen 1 is 3.2 Gen 1:

There were no changes to the original 3.0 hardware or protocol, so rather than having a separate spec they merge it into the next revision.
  • This is not an issue if you are using these names because you are engineering USB-compatible products.
  • This is an issue if for some braindead reason you are using engineering terms for marketing rather than the agreed-upon marketing terms.
Sure, Superspeed USB is an annoying term. But it is the term that a Forum of Implementors (aka the USB-IF) agreed upon for marketing purposes.

---
And where I believe the USB-IF screwed this all up:

A USB cable can have five attributes
  • charging power (for pre-PD cables, this means Android vs Apple vs other "fast charge" specs)
  • data rate above (including none, for pre-PD cables that broke spec and didn't contain data lines)
  • host connector (A, mini/micro B for OTG cables, C)
  • device connector (B, mini B, micro B, C)
  • alternate mode qualification (e.g. thunderbolt certified)

USB-C would have been a great time to collapse all that down. Wouldn't it be nice if:
  • Superspeed USB 10 and 20 are only allowed for cables without legacy USB ports, aka only C-to-C or C-to-other.
  • Certified C-to-C cables must support Superspeed USB 20
  • Certified C-to-C cables must support 100W power delivery.
  • Alternate mode C-to-C cables (Thunderbolt 3) may have additional certifications, but must be usable as a USB C-to-C cable (aka Superspeed 20 and/or 100W power delivery)
  • C-to-legacy-USB-port must meet the maximum requirements for that port spec (in terms of data and power delivery). Example: an A-to-C cable must support Superspeed and PD.
  • C-to-non-USB port (or integrated directly into the device) are left to the discretion and needs of the implementor.
  • A-to-C adapters are not expected to magically make the cable higher quality.
  • Possibly a separate certification for power-only C-to-C and C-to-legacy-USB cables, with a requirement that the C connector end or ends must be visibly and touch distinctive (aka a different shape and symbol on casing/label)
 
Last edited:
USB C is a confusing mess of different specs and uses.
I sticking with USB 3 Type A for while.
 
Thanks to this, hopefully more people will reconsider their Stand on iPhone switching from Lightning.
 
Justanotherfanboy said:
What’s MOST impressive about all this is that with the arrival of USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (née USB 3.2), they’ve officially released a spec that runs at half the speed of late 2015’s Thunderbolt 3.
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And at the speed of TB 2, which was all the rage not that long ago.

Apple was a really early pusher of TB. It’ll be interesting to see what they do with ARM Macs—the new Arm MacBook—ports with half the bandwidth of our MB Air and Pro from a year or two ago.
 
So basically, now any cable sold can be called simply a "USB 3.2" cable, with no mandatory way to distinguish them. Way to clear things up.
 
The problem isn't the new naming convention, it was the old one. Have you ever tried talking to a non tech person about USB 3.1? Gen 1, Gen 2? Yeah.

If they rolled out the current naming convention 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 it would have been better.

Changing the current naming convention, doesn't make any difference to the non tech people and for us in the know, it's not all that hard to understand either.

jdiamond said:
So basically, now any cable sold can be called simply a "USB 3.2" cable, with no mandatory way to distinguish them. Way to clear things up.
Click to expand...

No, USB 3.2 is the 20GBPS USB speed. USB 3.1 is 10GBPS and 3.0 will be 5GBPS.
 
Janichsan said:
What the hell, USB IF…? Are you drunk?


"Ludicrous Speed".
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The USB IF group are drunk on their staggeringly limitless power to define the future of computers. They are probably hanging out in gold mansions drinking champagne as we speak. ;)
 
This is all part of an evil plan to force everyone to go wireless. Soon no one will be able to understand what cable they need so they are simply forced to drink the wireless cool-aid.

That is, of course, another standards cluster-fsck.
 
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