All iPads Use of the 'Pad in schools

Discussion in 'iPad' started by MatthewLTL, May 19, 2015.

  1. MatthewLTL macrumors 68000

    MatthewLTL

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    Rochester, MN
    #1
    This is my 1st time i have posted in the iPad forums. just thought i would make this general discussion thread.

    The public schools in my area are on a Trial period of giving every kid a iPad in 3 schools in the district.

    Reading the story on it I can completely 100% understand the usefulness in them for this purpose.

    Just a couple of things i DID wonder about this subject.

    Why iPads? Why not use a much cheaper DROID Tab, or perhaps even a Netbook laptop such as a Chromebook BOTH of which would be much cheaper than a iPad. $450 per student for a iPad vs $300 per Chromebook per student or even $60 per DROID Tab per student are much cheaper options.

    Nothing against iPad (never used or owned one) just curious as to why the pick of that when there is obviously much cheaper options out there.
     
  2. sanke1 macrumors 65816

    sanke1

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    #2
    Use of pad in schools? I LOL'd hard. I think the girls are allowed.

    But in seriousness, it depends on particular school's policy. Some think that usage of mobiles and tablets can divert student's attention to non productive activities like games. No student would ever be that sincere to type down notes on their iPads.

    Why iPad?
    Answer: The schools want to project themselves to be cool to study. Currently, the public perception is favouring Apple products. The school might want to utilize few Apple specific services or Apple may have given them huge corporate discount to make students familiar with their products at a very young age.
     
  3. MatthewLTL thread starter macrumors 68000

    MatthewLTL

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    #3
    that's the point exactly, distractions the study even showed that students will play games they downloaded to the iPads from home in school when they should be doing homework. I am not sure if they are used for notes, never mentioned that but they DID say that they are used to take Quizzes. (how would they prevent cheating by allowing that) I would be simple for a kid to get online and look up the answers would it not? Perhaps the Public schools don't have wifi? wouldnt actually surprise me if they didn't far as i know they dont even ALLOW students to use their own laptops at school (on the internet) for security reasons. of course this was back in the early 2000s when i actually attended one of the schools now doing this study.

    I notice people favor things like iPad and iPhones yet not many people that own either of those devices actually have a Mac.
     
  4. TWO2SEVEN macrumors 68040

    TWO2SEVEN

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    #4
    That seems like a pretty big generalization. In my case, having an iPhone, and later an iPad, convinced me to get rid of all of the Windows machines in our house and switch to Macs.
     
  5. MatthewLTL thread starter macrumors 68000

    MatthewLTL

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    #5
    I still prefer Linux over Mac.
     
  6. TWO2SEVEN macrumors 68040

    TWO2SEVEN

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    #6
    Not relevant to your thread, but ok. :)
     
  7. srshaw macrumors 6502

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    #7
    As a Physics teacher I really believe the only 'tech' necessary is a basic scientific calculator. I don't believe Einstein, Feynman, Hawking, Newton, Rutheford (I could of course go on here) had ipads and they turned out ok and knew a thing or two about Physics.

    Of course we have ipads at school as is the fashion but I only use them with younger students for internet research. I would rarely if ever use them with A level students (not sure what the equivalent level would be in the US but these are 16-18 yr olds).
     
  8. andyw715 macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    Seriously?
    I guess we should get back on our horses and ride to the library to use the Dewey decimal system and look up some books.

    If anything, an ipad/tablet is great in physics for modeling things. We used video analysis apps on the ipad to track rocket launches for the 5th graders. The lesson used to revolve around basic motion and building the rocket. Now we record the launches, track the trajectories, and perform 2-d kinematics.

    It's usefulness is defined by its role in the lesson plan.
     
  9. Breaking Good macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    I believe you are correct, but a student graduating from high school today who is intent on a S.T.E.M. career needs to know everything those individuals knew or know and know if before graduating high school.

    There is a lot more young people today need to know before they can become productive members of society.
     
  10. SHirsch999 macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    I'm willing to bet they did use the most up to date tech available to them at the time.
     
  11. Aspasia macrumors 65816

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    #11
    Could be something as simple as Apple's walled garden, or perhaps better educational pricing.

    Our school district not only hands out iPads to the lower grades, but Mac Airbooks to high school students.
     
  12. s2mikey macrumors 68020

    s2mikey

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    #12
    I think it's overkill and the last thing these kids need is more device time. It's a waste of taxpayer money, IMO. A few workstations or whatever is plenty for any classroom. Sure, it could save on textbook costs and cut way down on book storage but digital copies of textbooks aren't free so there is still some cost involved.

    I dunno, I don't like it.
     
  13. bmxracer macrumors member

    bmxracer

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    #13
    It wouldn't be easy to cheat because the software the schools use would lock you back out of the quiz completely if you navigated away from the test at all. Also remember school districts do not pay retail for these devices so an Ipad could very well be closer in price to android tablets than you'd think.
     
  14. AlliFlowers Contributor

    AlliFlowers

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    #14
    I currently have 4 Android tablets in my classroom. When we do activities that require students going online or using apps, they can use their own, or mine if they don't have one. I got Android because they were so much cheaper.

    As far as classroom use, it makes no difference which platform is used. I go platform agnostic to avoid the issue.

    School systems, however, don't view money the way the rest of us do. They have this weird thing called "bid," which makes everything a little bizarre. For instance, we have these awful Lenovo laptops that cost about 3 times the price of HP laptops with equal specs that you can buy at Best Buy. But we're stuck paying more because they're what's on bid.

    The only reason I have my 4 Android tablets is due to the generosity of people on Donor's Choose. They aren't even available on bid.
     
  15. MatthewLTL thread starter macrumors 68000

    MatthewLTL

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    #15
    what i want to know from the standpoint even seeing it be done with computers while i was going through school, is not IF but WHEN the kid(s) break it because they drop it and shatter the screens? being the school just GIVES them out they will not at all take care of them and will literally beat them to the brink of being semi-functional expecially if the kits are under the age of 16.

    I do agree.... I am not anything near a technophobe BUT what is the point on this? Do schools no longer have libraries or computer labs? Could they not as simply just goto the computer lab and do all their research on them? iPad do have their advantages but what benefit is it for KIDS to actually get them handed to them? they should get it in a mobile "lab" format say 30 or so per classroom (or somewhere near the volume of kids in the class) and then they can use "Check Out" these iPads if they need them for homework (such as reading a digital textbook for homework) and the teacher just hands them out to use IN-CLASS for use of textbooks or other such purposes (wouldnt it just be cheaper or easier to have the textbooks on PDFs so they can be viewed on literally every device be it computer, phone, tablet?) I think giving them to every kid to keep is a bad idea it should be assigned to classrooms.... NOT students, Where they have a system in place that if needed, they can simply check them out like a book.... That is what my school did for the Yearbook and Video classes, I was able to check out a Handicam, was suppose to record some footage (can't remember what) than take it back, transfer the video to the eMacs and edit the clips in iMovie to make it into a short video and we were graded based upon what we filmed, how we edited it together, how well we used iMovie's effects and how we presented it to the rest of the class. Something simular can be done for these iPads and i personally dont think grade-school or middle-school aged children have the level of responsibility to actually be given one of these rather pricey devices. And what IF a kid already has one or has a DROID tablet? shouldnt they be allowed to use their own device (or reject one completely) if they so wanted?
     
  16. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    Boston
    #16
    I believe the public school system in my home town is using ChromeBooks currently. The town is one of most affluent towns in Connecticut, so I'm sure with their tax base they could have chose iPads had they wanted. Despite that, I think the price point was still the biggest motivator, 1/2 - 2/3 the price of an iPad plus chapter repairs. ChromeBooks have keyboard, which is more appropriate for writing and most like conventional PC use. Sure you can get keyboards for iPads, but that's just more money. Chromebooks are supposedly easier to manage from a IT standpoint. Knowing how terrible their IT department is personally, it's probably good they wen with the CB's. They had already been using Google Apps, so I imagine this was just an easy way to progress. Overall the form factor of the ChromeBook was found to be more practical than the iPad.

    I have an iPad through my work to access patient information and medicine information resources. I think in that I am constantly on the move, often don't have a place to sit, a tablet form works better. As far as I know, the electronic health record program my hospital uses is only available for iPad, so Android is out of the question. In the past, they used TabletPC's for the same use, but the iPad is powerful enough and so much more portable.

    If I was in high school/middle school I would probably find the ChromeBook more practical. From a software point of view, I'm not sure the difference, but I imagine there are similar offerings.
     
  17. MatthewLTL thread starter macrumors 68000

    MatthewLTL

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    Rochester, MN
    #17
    exactly my standpoint.... Why not use ChromeBooks? they are cheaper, rather limited software library AND rather limited storage= less distractions AFAIK ChromeBooks have no games...... i have seen them in real life they are literally no bigger in size than a iPad and probably weigh AT MOST a few ounces more. The Mayo Clinic uses iPads and iPhones for the same thing you do. Yet EVERY exam room (whatever they call them) and every patient room (in the hospital) all have computers a few presses of the keys doctors, nurses and whatnot can be logged in, and access the patients file within the matter of SECONDS. So honestly why Mayo Clinic uses iPads and iPhones for patient records seems rather moot since like i said there is a computer at every desk and in every hallway where patients are seen on every floor and in every building...... Patient/Visitor computers are not as frequent usually between 1-4 and unlike staff computers, are NOT in every waiting room or every floor.
     
  18. A.Goldberg, May 19, 2015
    Last edited: May 19, 2015

    A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    #18
    The town I grew up in schools' makes the students and parents sign a contract, if the computer is or returns damaged they have to pair the repair costs up to $250 or whatever the replacement cost of the ChromeBook. The computer is expected to last a few years and non-damage-induced issues are covered under a standard warranty. Various insurance policies can be purchased depending on how much you want to spend/get covered. Families who cannot afford the insurance are provided assistance (though this wouldn't apply to many in this town).

    Most research now is now done on a computer. Books are not regularly updated. It's easier/cheaper to pay for internet databases than buy print books. There are some hospitals that have banned print medical reference books due to the risk of disseminating outdated information.

    Scheduling can be in issue with labs, i.e. multiple teachers want to use the lab(s) or cart(s) simultaneously. Most schools have space constraints to build more labs. Chromebooks are cheaper than building additions.


    There are a lot of digital textbooks now. If they're still using print books, its likely because they're paid for and they will use them until they can afford to upgrade to newer eBooks. That's one of the benefit of laptops. Given that most students (at least when I was in school) had daily homework out of textbooks, especially with multiple classes, lending out devices would be impractical. Yes most kids already have computers, but there is a liability for them to bring them into school (theft), less security, less control over what they can do on it during class.

    It is assumed that they will be utilized regularly, so checking them out would likely not provide enough devices per student. Additionally, if a device "belongs" to a student, then there is a greater sense of responsibility instilled and expected. Kids will be less likely to trash their "own" ipad/chromebook rather than a "rental" one.

    A camera has limited use, a chromebook/iPad can be integrated into most class curriculums, as computers already have been.

    This very well may be the case, but I know my 10 year old cousin has an iPad, iPad, and a laptop. It's not uncommon for kids to have computers at young ages these days. Back when I was young, computers were so thousands of dollars so everyone had a "family computer". Now computers are cheap and considered a personal device.

    They might be against this. It may not be able to connect to the schools network, they probably don't want to deal with theft of personal property (the CB's or iPads belong to the school), and the biggest problem is kids playing games. As far as I know, iPads and ChromeBooks in education have a lot of restrictions in place to prevent distractions in class from occurring.

    ----------

    Well currently ChromeBooks are outselling iPads in education or at least they're neck in neck. I imagine iPads are still used because they were first to the market and grandfathered in, already contracting with apple for school computers, or just the fanboyism by the department/bragging rights.

    Not every room in a hospital has computers. Most exam rooms typically have computers at this point (though not necessarily), but in patient rooms there are never computers. Different hospitals have drastically varying amounts of technology. Due to software licensing issues/costs (hundreds of thousands in a larger hospital), it's not practical to load software onto every computer that doesn't need it, and in an emergency you can't waste time logging into web based browsers and such. The psychiatrist or clinical/counsulting pharmacist doesn't need radiology software, the nurse doesn't need the same pharmaceutical databases I use, I don't need anywhere near the level of diagnostic references doctors use. There aren't many easily accessible in psych wards too, as it can be used as a weapon.

    Edit: Also in an emergency if a nurse is looking up the patients medical history, another needs to look up his medication history, and I need to find out if I can mix a specific drug with an IV already inplace, we cannot all be using the same computer. Computers mounted in the open hallways are not connected to patient information in some places do the HIPPA privacy issues and are more for reference.

    Edit 2: Doctors also like iPads because of their high-res screens for radiography images (X-rays, CAT scans, MRI's, etc)
     
  19. MatthewLTL thread starter macrumors 68000

    MatthewLTL

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    Rochester, MN
    #19
    1. not if the kid is say 9 years old... They are too young at that age to understand how expensive things are or how to take care of it.

    2 This was a example only.

    3. I remember that...... We had only one family computer for several years, It was in 2005 that a complete desktop computer (Computer, monitor) was at a low enough price it was cheap enough to buy. Our 1st computer that was accessed on the Internet cost over $800 that was the computer, monitor (although we didnt technically need that) the Gateway people told use that older monitors would not work on the system, and a printer. today you can buy a printer for $25 bucks. You can buy a desktop for $100 and you can buy a laptop for $80....

    4. I was referring to mayo clinic not any place else. I can see Surgeons having need for them... but not nurses or resident doctors... in other words anywhere using the computers in the exam rooms is not a issue since they see only one patient at a time.
     
  20. A.Goldberg macrumors 68000

    A.Goldberg

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    Boston
    #20
    True, 9 may be young, though these programs typically start in middle school.

    I understand, but a computer is expected to be a regularly used part of the curriculum, therefore lending them out for usage would not be practical. It doesn't quite solve the responsibility issue either. My school system had iBooks that could be signed out in the library and others that could be carted into classrooms. 90% of them were destroyed within a year.

    Yeah, it's crazy. I remember on my birthday in 1996 my dad and I went to the Gateway Store to buy a new family computer. It was a fairly high end PII (300mhz?), 10gb hard drive, 17" flat CRT monitor, Boston acoustics speakers, Windows 95, etc. Microsoft Office's automated paperclip and the fish tank screen saver were super cool. I think that cost around $2000+. A color printer was almost $400. A scanner $300. Now printers are super cheap, but partially because they sell the printer below cost and make up for it with ink refills.


    Many of the patients you don't see in regular exam rooms though, many are just located in regular wards, which don't have computers (that would be a lot of computers!). Many ICU rooms don't even have computers. Operating rooms typically don't have intensive computer usage (unless it has some form of automation). Remember there are medical emergencies that do occur in the emergency room or operating room. If someone has a heart attack in a regular ward, we're not going to waste the time moving them to a room with a computer. Nurses usually don't have portable computers, in my experience. Residents do frequently, especially since they are residents and still learning and frequently reference information. There are more hospital staff than there are desktop computers too, so many (younger ;) ) doctors typically have iPads.

    Exam rooms are one thing, its usually 1 on 1. But in emergency situations, you may have 8-10+ people working on the same person in the same time.
     
  21. Abazigal macrumors 604

    Abazigal

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    #21
    That is a question only the school can answer themselves. The technology has to support the pedagogy. Which means that you have to think hard about how you want technology to support your learning in the classroom, then look at your options and decide which best suits your needs.

    You cannot look at an iPad, think it looks cool, and then try to ram it into your curriculum and expect it to just magically work somehow. Ultimately, different schools have different needs stemming from different pupil demographics, and what works for one school may not work for another.

    From what I see, chrome books are popular because they are cheap, and allow pupils to use the browser without the hassle of having to manage windows software. It's a safe option in that every teacher would already be familiar with the concept of laptops in the classroom, so it doesn't force me to learn anything new.

    I am a teacher in a school with a 1-to-1 computing initiative, and our activities mostly revolve around web-based tools like blogging, google apps, and whatever free browser software we can find (like todaysmeet, educreations, secretive etc). Our biggest headaches are problems stemming from the Windows OS (it just lags and gets slow very quickly). Google Docs is quickly replacing Office for the sort of work my pupils do due to its simplicity and ease of collaboration and the versatility of being able to embed directly into wordpress, so a chromebook would give my pupils fewer problems to contend with. Which in turn means less time wasted troubleshooting problems (like a pupil starting up his laptop in class, only to find he has to install 100+ updates. There goes his laptop for the entire lesson).

    So you need to ask your school how they plan to use the iPads in the classroom, and whether the infrastructure is even in place to support it (god knows how many lessons have gone to waste due to network outages in my school).

    As to why iPads might be better, I can think of iTunes university (which makes it easier to disseminate ebooks and assignments) and iPads possibly being more reliable and generally working better than android tablets. It might not be a factor that registers on a spec list, but there is a very real opportunity cost when your computing hardware doesn't work or doesn't work as well. On paper, a $100 tablet might perform the same tasks as a $500 iPad, but can it do those tasks as well? Will it have the same battery life, access to the same apps? What about other factors like quality of the touchscreen and camera?

    There's a saying - you get what you pay for.
     
  22. Abazigal macrumors 604

    Abazigal

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    #22
    It's like how people now use Facebook more on their phone than on their PCs, because it's more convenient and accessible.

    From my experience, putting laptops in every classroom dramatically improves the likelihood that the teacher will actually get the pupils to use them, because it's much more convenient than booking the computer lab, then having to line my pupils up, bring them to the lab, and bring them back. We teachers are always in a race against time to finish the curriculum. If we feel that the time "wasted" on the administrative aspects of ICT is not worth the benefits, we simply won't use it, plain and simple. We will just continue with pen-and-paper lessons.

    Sometimes, a computer lesson is wholly unplanned. Some pupils finish their work early, so I just get them to draw their laptops and start blogging about a preassigned topic. With a PC lab system, the pupils might visit it once a week if they are lucky? With their own laptops, my pupils get to use ICT 3-5 times a week. So it definitely makes a difference.

    And as for using their own devices, I think a balance has to be struck between not making the pupil spend any more money than he has to (especially if he is not financially well-off), and ensuring some degree of homogeneity in hardware.

    Imagine if there were iPads, Android tablets, laptops, even smartphones in the classroom. It would be very difficult for the teacher to manage and troubleshoot all of them. What happens if I want to use an app for a lesson and it is available only on iPads but not Android tablets? What happens if I want to use flash-based software but some pupils have iPads? What if 5 pupils using 5 completely different devices have network problems, each requiring a different means of troubleshooting?

    I would be forced to always cater to the lowest common denominator (which is probably google apps and non-flashed based browser apps, and in the end, everyone loses out.

    I think the point is making technology more accessible to children so they can learn to be more independent in their learning. The teacher stops being the gatekeeper of information. Instead, he becomes more of a facilitator. That's the idea, at least. :)
     
  23. scaredpoet macrumors 604

    scaredpoet

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    #23
    From what I've seen, the repair cost is borne by the user (or in this case, the parents). The schools invest in an insurance plan, which covers breakage, but if it does happen, the student/parent is responsible for the deductible.

    Many school districts also do the repairs in-house. The IT departments get the Apple tech certifications, and they just order the parts and handle repairs as needed, again billing any non-covered cost to the parents.

    Overall, I'm pretty sure a lot of them have done a cost-benefit analysis. Over the long-run, iPads do get supported by Apple a lot longer than most Android tablets do on Android. So you can pretty much keep an iPad for a lot longer.

    They could, but you'd have to schedule time for each class to spend library/computer lab time, which becomes a logistics problem, particularly as class sizes get larger. With physical library books, you get however many books you buy and that's it. With e-texts, it's possible to distribute as many copies as there is demand, without anyone having to wait.

    So for a school with 1,000+ students (which is quite common nowadays, sometimes even as many as 3,000), how do you propose slicing those check-out times so everyone gets access? Which teachers do you tell to wait and which teachers get their classes to go first?

    It would, and I'd agree with you that PDFs are great. But unfortunately textbook makers have other plans. PDFs can be distributed freely. Textbook publishers, on the other hand, like to make money, and are deathly afraid that s school district might buy a PDF version of the text for one school and share it with ALL their schools, or worse, some student or teacher might post it online for everyone to get for free.

    iPads, for better or worse, allow for e-texts to happen while still locking them down in such a way that publishers are happy. Overall, their expected lifespan is just cheap enough that school districts can save money buying and updating e-texts over storing, shipping, and buying new paper books periodically.

    That was how I did things in school too, and I also saw the inherent disadvantages to it. Cameras and media equipment were a lot more expensive, and in short supply. You had to butter up the teacher in charge of the equipment to get a decent chance of using it, because it was always checked out. You had to wait around until the people in front of you on the list were done using the computer, and the fact tat they weren't as proficient at it as you were only made things worse because they were s l o w e r at getting their work done.

    Now,. schools can invest in iPads, which have the camera and editing software built in. You can now truly grade on ability, not on who was lucky enough to get to the equipment first, or has the best schmoozing/manipulative skills.

    I agree with you somewhat here, though the schools would want/have to standardize on a platform (either iPad or Android... or Windows). Part of the issue has been that school districts feel they need to lock down these devices in a specific way so only whitelisted websites can be access (because I'm sure people like yourself would be hopping mad if a student were found to be watching porn on an iPad supposedly meant for schoolwork, right?). Through students are smart... they can get around that stuff. So the point is moot, really.
     
  24. scaredpoet macrumors 604

    scaredpoet

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    #24
    Why stop there? We could take this a little further and require...

    [​IMG]

    (And yes, I had a teacher in middle school who was absolutely against having even scientific calculators in classrooms... let the li'l buggers work it all out by hand!)


    Einstein, Feynman, Hawking, Newton, and Rutheford were/are brilliant minds and had unique talents to make their discoveries. Realistically, not everyone has that level of genius, including probably you or I.

    In any case, we're not trying to get students to re-discover relativity or quantum mechanics on their own, nor should we be dropping apples on their heads so they can figure out gravity from scratch. That work's been done, and that's a lot of information to cover. The goal is to get current students up to speed on those theories so they can make bigger discoveries in the not-too-distant future.
     
  25. MatthewLTL thread starter macrumors 68000

    MatthewLTL

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    Rochester, MN
    #25
    both The Mayo Clinic and a much smaller less-equipped local Clinic/Hospital (Olmsted Medial Center) have computers in every room (except OMC has no patient/visitor access computers (they have wifi though) including the ER department. I have seen in the Mayo Clinic ER (do to being more ER bays than computers) where i have seen multiable ER Staff (nurses/doctors) sitting at multiable computers as they all update the file of the same patient. In the hospital (Non-ER section) they have atleast 4 computers spread across each corridor and staff will use those to update patient files (some times updating multible patient files at the same time). Can't speak for everywhere just what I have locally, Both places didnt even switch from Windows XP until Windows 8 came out and they run 7 (I wonder why the skipped Vista)
    1. What if the parents cannot afford the cost?

    2. Giving every studet a iPad would cost the same thing as providing each teacher with (or access too) a supply of iPads so that every kid WOULD have one however unless it is needed for homework they would STAY on school property, They can be assigned to each student or just handed out like textbooks were. And is students needed to take their iPad home for doing homework the teacher would but it on a sign-out sheet and have it in the mobile lab (say 1 mobile lab-per teacher per class either or the school would be spending the same amount of money BUT also the rish is less that something can happen to them if they stay on school property.

    and lastly, you can bypass the school filters as the filters on the iPad would only be in place whilst on school property when the kids take them home they could connect to their own wifi and download all the games or watch all the porn to their heart's content. The filters are done over Network Proxy not on physical devices (atleast thats what the IT guy in my middle school told me) not sure if there's a different practice in place for iPads.
     

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