Using External Thunderbolt 1 SSD as the System Drive?

[krackerjack21ca]

The other day the internal SSD in my 2013 27" iMac died. I was able to boot into recovery mode, but the internal drive wasn't even showing in the disk utility app; all my other external drives were showing. After a lot of work I was able to setup one of the WD Red drives in my ThunderBay chassis as the system drive, and I am currently limping along with that setup.

I was wondering if it would be a wise move to swap the WDR out and install an OWC SSD and use that as the system drive? I know there will be an improvement in performance with the SSD, but b/c it is only a TB1 connection, I'm not sure how much of a performance increase there will be. Also, there seem to be mixed opinions on using external drives as a permanent system/boot drive. Just wondering if there are any major cons with that setup. The most system intensive program I use is Photoshop. The rest of the time it's mostly internet, movies, music, nothing overly tasking.

Thanks!!

 

[Juicy Box]

You have a lot of options for an external SSD on your iMac, all with pros and cons.

USB3 - Around 350-450MBps. Cheap, and easy to get and set up. No TRIM support. You can get a SSD external drive like the Samsung T5, or get a cheaper SATA SSD with an enclosure or USB3 SATA cable adapter. Recommended for most people unless higher speeds is required.

TB1 - A SATA SSD would be about the same speed, or maybe a little higher as a USB3 SSD, but you get TRIM support. Hard to find these drives, and eBay would probably be the best way to source them. Probably not worth it, as they are expensive. I have purchased a TB1 HDD and swapped the SATA HDD for a SATA SSD.

TB2 - Basically the same as the TB1 drive on your iMac if you use a SATA SSD. You can also find some NVMe and AHCI TB2 SSD enclosures. They tend to be pricey, but you could see speeds close to 800MBps on the NVMe TB2 drives that I have researched before. Just like the TB1, probably not worth it do to price. Has TRIM support.

TB3 - A TB3 NVMe drive is the fastest single non-RAID drive you can get for you Mac. Speeds over 900MBps, but at a cost. Requires Apple bidirectional adapter. Depending on the set up, could require a TB3 dock to power the drive. NVMe drives are falling in price, but between the drive, the bidirectional adapter, and maybe something to power the drive, this could be an expensive option. Also has TRIM support. Probably not worth it due to complexity and cost, unless you need that super fast speed, or if you plan on using this on a newer computer purchase in the near future.

USB3.2x1 - 10Gbps link speed, easy to find. No TRIM support. The biggest issue with this is that you need to have a TB3 dock with 10Gbps USB ports, and also a bidirectional adapter to connect it to your Mac. I have never tried this, but would think speeds of 700MBps would be realitistic. Probably not worth it due to complexity and cost.



There are some other options like using a SD Card as a boot drive, adding an internal SATA SSD using the internal HDD SATA port, or replacing the Blade SSD, but all of these have pros and cons as well. Let me know if you want to know more about any.


As for external drives, for your stated usage and needs, I think the USB3 SSD would be good. The 5Gbps USB3 SSD would give you a good balance of speed and can be really cheap (less than $100 for a 1TB SATA Drive and enclosure), with the biggest downside of not having TRIM support (at least on MacOS). Without TRIM support, this could lead to shorten life span of the SSD, and premature slowdowns. This does take a while though. I personally have used an external SSD on one of my Macs for a few years without issue, but I have had another Mac impacted with really slow write speeds due to lack of TRIM, so it might just depend on your usage.

 

[gecko579]

I’ve been using an external 1TB USB3 SSD for system boot (though I still had the home folder on the spinning internal HDD). Have had fine experience with it (and the SSD backups)…go for it! Some very inexpensive SSDs recently, 1TBs <<$100 and 2TBs for just over $100. Good luck!

 

[krackerjack21ca]

You have a lot of options for an external SSD on your iMac, all with pros and cons.

USB3 - Around 350-450MBps. Cheap, and easy to get and set up. No TRIM support. You can get a SSD external drive like the Samsung T5, or get a cheaper SATA SSD with an enclosure or USB3 SATA cable adapter. Recommended for most people unless higher speeds is required.

TB1 - A SATA SSD would be about the same speed, or maybe a little higher as a USB3 SSD, but you get TRIM support. Hard to find these drives, and eBay would probably be the best way to source them. Probably not worth it, as they are expensive. I have purchased a TB1 HDD and swapped the SATA HDD for a SATA SSD.

TB2 - Basically the same as the TB1 drive on your iMac if you use a SATA SSD. You can also find some NVMe and AHCI TB2 SSD enclosures. They tend to be pricey, but you could see speeds close to 800MBps on the NVMe TB2 drives that I have researched before. Just like the TB1, probably not worth it do to price. Has TRIM support.

TB3 - A TB3 NVMe drive is the fastest single non-RAID drive you can get for you Mac. Speeds over 900MBps, but at a cost. Requires Apple bidirectional adapter. Depending on the set up, could require a TB3 dock to power the drive. NVMe drives are falling in price, but between the drive, the bidirectional adapter, and maybe something to power the drive, this could be an expensive option. Also has TRIM support. Probably not worth it due to complexity and cost, unless you need that super fast speed, or if you plan on using this on a newer computer purchase in the near future.

USB3.2x1 - 10Gbps link speed, easy to find. No TRIM support. The biggest issue with this is that you need to have a TB3 dock with 10Gbps USB ports, and also a bidirectional adapter to connect it to your Mac. I have never tried this, but would think speeds of 700MBps would be realitistic. Probably not worth it due to complexity and cost.



There are some other options like using a SD Card as a boot drive, adding an internal SATA SSD using the internal HDD SATA port, or replacing the Blade SSD, but all of these have pros and cons as well. Let me know if you want to know more about any.


As for external drives, for your stated usage and needs, I think the USB3 SSD would be good. The 5Gbps USB3 SSD would give you a good balance of speed and can be really cheap (less than $100 for a 1TB SATA Drive and enclosure), with the biggest downside of not having TRIM support (at least on MacOS). Without TRIM support, this could lead to shorten life span of the SSD, and premature slowdowns. This does take a while though. I personally have used an external SSD on one of my Macs for a few years without issue, but I have had another Mac impacted with really slow write speeds due to lack of TRIM, so it might just depend on your usage.

That's very helpful information, thank you.

The reason I was leaning towards the TB1 option is b/c my ThunderBay has 4 drive capacity, so with a 3.5 -> 2.5 conversion kit I can thru a SATA SSD into it fairly easily. If I had USB 3.2 ports on my mac I would go that direction, but my 2013 only has USB 3 ports.

I'm going to have to look into the USB 3 options though. I live in Canada, so ordering the appropriate conversion kit up from the US for the ThunderBay costs a small fortune. The T5 looks pretty nice.

Kinda off topic, but any thoughts on a 2015 27" iMac using a Fusion drive? There are a few in my area for sale, and not overly pricey. I'm just a bit reluctant about getting a used mac that old with a Fusion drive b/c of the wear and tear on the HDD component.

Thanks Again!!

 

[ignatius345]

Kinda off topic, but any thoughts on a 2015 27" iMac using a Fusion drive? There are a few in my area for sale, and not overly pricey. I'm just a bit reluctant about getting a used mac that old with a Fusion drive b/c of the wear and tear on the HDD component.

Do not do this.

Not only is the HDD likely to fail at some point, but the SSD portion of it is probably pretty well cooked with read/write cycles. I know this because my 2014 iMac 5K had a Fusion Drive and after a few years of use the little 128GB SSD was down to about 5% of lifespan according to DriveDx. The HDD was still working fine as far as I know.

A Fusion Drive constantly shuttles the data you're actively using onto the SSD, and then sends it back to the HDD when you work on something else. It was a very smart hack when SSDs were crazy expensive, but they used SSDs as small as 64GB or even (if I recall) 32GB. Those SSD memory cells have a finite number of read/write cycles before they die, and there just aren't enough of them on a tiny SSD to absorb all that use. Any Fusion Drive still in service for a few years likely has a lot of wear, and I suspect most of them in working Macs will probably start dying soon.

If you want a project? Go ahead. iFixit sells kits to cut open the iMac and re-adhere the screen with new adhesive strips. It's a few hours' work and do-able if you're handy and careful. You can then either put a SATA SSD into the place where the HDD was (which is what I did), or you can wade into replacing the little blade SSD on the motherboard. That's more involved and you have to source the parts carefully. Great thread on it here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/a-list-of-successful-imac-27-2012-2019-ssd-upgrades.2162435/

 

[JERRY LAUFER]

The other day the internal SSD in my 2013 27" iMac died. I was able to boot into recovery mode, but the internal drive wasn't even showing in the disk utility app; all my other external drives were showing. After a lot of work I was able to setup one of the WD Red drives in my ThunderBay chassis as the system drive, and I am currently limping along with that setup.

I was wondering if it would be a wise move to swap the WDR out and install an OWC SSD and use that as the system drive? I know there will be an improvement in performance with the SSD, but b/c it is only a TB1 connection, I'm not sure how much of a performance increase there will be. Also, there seem to be mixed opinions on using external drives as a permanent system/boot drive. Just wondering if there are any major cons with that setup. The most system intensive program I use is Photoshop. The rest of the time it's mostly internet, movies, music, nothing overly tasking.

Thanks!!

Check out OWC internal SSD replacements here - https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/ssd/owc/imac

 

[krackerjack21ca]

Do not do this.

Not only is the HDD likely to fail at some point, but the SSD portion of it is probably pretty well cooked with read/write cycles. I know this because my 2014 iMac 5K had a Fusion Drive and after a few years of use the little 128GB SSD was down to about 5% of lifespan according to DriveDx. The HDD was still working fine as far as I know.

A Fusion Drive constantly shuttles the data you're actively using onto the SSD, and then sends it back to the HDD when you work on something else. It was a very smart hack when SSDs were crazy expensive, but they used SSDs as small as 64GB or even (if I recall) 32GB. Those SSD memory cells have a finite number of read/write cycles before they die, and there just aren't enough of them on a tiny SSD to absorb all that use. Any Fusion Drive still in service for a few years likely has a lot of wear, and I suspect most of them in working Macs will probably start dying soon.

If you want a project? Go ahead. iFixit sells kits to cut open the iMac and re-adhere the screen with new adhesive strips. It's a few hours' work and do-able if you're handy and careful. You can then either put a SATA SSD into the place where the HDD was (which is what I did), or you can wade into replacing the little blade SSD on the motherboard. That's more involved and you have to source the parts carefully. Great thread on it here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/a-list-of-successful-imac-27-2012-2019-ssd-upgrades.2162435/

Thanks, I came to the same conclusion as well.

Actually, I just finished ordering a Samsung T7 and it should be here in about a week. Looking forward to seeing how things perform running off of it.

Thanks again for your input. Once I've got it installed I'll let you know how it performs.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

That's very helpful information, thank you.

The reason I was leaning towards the TB1 option is b/c my ThunderBay has 4 drive capacity, so with a 3.5 -> 2.5 conversion kit I can thru a SATA SSD into it fairly easily. If I had USB 3.2 ports on my mac I would go that direction, but my 2013 only has USB 3 ports.

I'm going to have to look into the USB 3 options though. I live in Canada, so ordering the appropriate conversion kit up from the US for the ThunderBay costs a small fortune. The T5 looks pretty nice.

Kinda off topic, but any thoughts on a 2015 27" iMac using a Fusion drive? There are a few in my area for sale, and not overly pricey. I'm just a bit reluctant about getting a used mac that old with a Fusion drive b/c of the wear and tear on the HDD component.

Thanks Again!!

I would suggest you buy a 2.5" SATA SSD to try with your Thunderbay first.
If it has normal SATA connection which can take the 3.5" HDD directly (no adapter), then it won't need any adapter to connect the 2.5" drive. You would need some tape or stereofoam to keep the 2.5" drive in place, though. SSDs has no spinning parts, therefore they withstand shaking & vibration better than spinning HDDs

 

[Juicy Box]

I was wondering if it would be a wise move to swap the WDR out and install an OWC SSD and use that as the system drive?

The reason I was leaning towards the TB1 option is b/c my ThunderBay has 4 drive capacity, so with a 3.5 -> 2.5 conversion kit I can thru a SATA SSD into it fairly easily. If

Oh, okay. I totally misunderstood your first post, probably read it too quickly, I thought you wanted use an TB1 SSD in place of your current enclosure, but you want to use a SATA SSD in one of the bays inside the current TB1 enclosure.

Given your situation, if you don't need what ever is currently in one of those bays, then go for it, use a SATA SSD. They are really cheap. A few weeks ago, I got a 4TB SATA SSD for only $270 that will be going in my daughter's Late 2013 iMac. I purchased a 2TB SATA SSD for it, maybe two years ago for around that much. The prices are coming down.

Using your TB1 enclosure, a SATA SSD would probably be a little slower than the OEM SSD that came with your iMac when it was new. Given the age of your SSD before it finally died, a SATA SSD in your TB1 enclosure would probably be faster than what you are used it.

You will also have TRIM support with the TB1 enclosure.

I live in Canada, so ordering the appropriate conversion kit up from the US for the ThunderBay costs a small fortune.

I am not familiar with the ThunderBay, but why is it a "small fortune" to put an SSD inside? Can you not just use a simple 3.5" to 2.5" SATA adapter bracket or caddy?

If I had USB 3.2 ports on my mac I would go that direction, but my 2013 only has USB 3 ports.

I am assuming you mean 3.2 gen2x1 (I left out the "gen2" in my first post by accident and corrected it), as 3.2 includes the USB3 that is on your Mac (USB 3.2 gen1).

That said, you can still get USB3.2 gen2x1 (10Gbps) speeds on your old iMac by using a TB3 dock that has USB3.2 gen2x1 ports on it. It just probably wouldn't be cost effective to do so, given your stated usage and the fact that you already have a TB1 enclosure to use.

I'm going to have to look into the USB 3 options though.

The T5 looks pretty nice.

This is also a really good option, as it is cheap and easy to do, and the speeds are decent. The biggest issue is no TRIM support.

Given that you already have a TB1 enclosure, I would suggest using that with a SATA SSD. Although, I am not sure what the "conversion kit" is, nor how much it costs to get one.

Kinda off topic, but any thoughts on a 2015 27" iMac using a Fusion drive?

As someone already mentioned, the biggest issue with any Mac with the Fusion Drive is the high failure rate, especially with an older Mac. I currently have 4 older iMacs, ranging from Mid 2011 to Late 2013, and each of them had at least one failed (or failing) HDD in them at some point.

But, whether or not the iMac you are looking at would be worth it would totally depends on the price. I wouldn't be opposed to buying a 2015 iMac with a Fusion Drive if it came at the right price for me.

I am also not scared of one failing, and would actually expect it to and plan on replacing the boot drive. I would probably defuse the drive as soon as I had it, and boot with the internal SSD to test it, then either replace the HDD with a SATA SSD or just boot with a SSD externally.

In your case of wanting to replace your 2013 iMac with a 2015 iMac due to the 2013 iMac having a failed drive, you could be in the same boat with the 2015 shortly after getting it. Putting you in the same position you are currently in with your Late 2013 iMac.

Besides, if you plan on using Catalina or up with your Mac, I wouldn't use a Fusion Drive or HDD.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

Kinda off topic, but any thoughts on a 2015 27" iMac using a Fusion drive? There are a few in my area for sale, and not overly pricey. I'm just a bit reluctant about getting a used mac that old with a Fusion drive b/c of the wear and tear on the HDD component.

Thanks Again!!

I would stay away from iMac 27" 2015.
The pinky edge issue is very popular with this model.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

You have USB3.
That's the "best, cheapest" option.

I'd recommend something like the Samsung t7 "Shield".
They may still be on sale at amazon...

 

[krackerjack21ca]

Hey All, I got my Samsung T7 over the holidays but have been running into some issues I can't quite figure out.

So I followed the steps in the following article but whenever I try to boot from the T7 the Mac will hang on a black screen. If I have the Thunderbolt chassis with the existing external OS installed on it connected, eventually the Mac will fall back to that drive and boot from it. If the TB chassis isn't connected, the Mac will stay locked on the black screen, eventually reboot into recovery mode. In recovery mode I can see the T7 drive. If I try to reinstall from the emergency recovery partition, I am forced to use the Extended Journaled format (APFS isn't an option), the recovery install (El Capitan) eventually completes. When I try to reboot onto the T7, the same result as before.

https://www.macworld.com/article/672585/how-to-install-macos-on-an-external-drive.html - tried both 'external journaled' and 'APFS' format.

I also tried creating a bootable usb drive, I can boot to the installer, but when it loads I have not keyboard or mouse control. I tried connected a wired mouse and keyboard, but same result.

How to create a bootable USB masOS installer

Make a macOS installer with createinstallmedia and install Monterey or another macOS on multiple Macs, do a clean install, or access a faulty Mac.

www.macworld.com

So if there are any ideas of what I am doing wrong or missing, or have any suggestions, please let me know.

Thanks.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

Since things don't seem to be working for you, how about trying things "my way"?

PRINT OUT THIS REPLY if you can.

Let's get going.

1. Boot from the existing tbolt drive. Get to the finder.

2. Download SuperDuper from this link:

https://www.shirt-pocket.com/mint/pepper/orderedlist/downloads/download.php?file=https://www.shirt-pocket.com/downloads/SuperDuper%21.dmg

Put it into your applications folder.
SuperDuper is FREE to use as we're going to use it.

2. Connect the t7 SSD. Let its icon mount on the desktop.

3. Open SuperDuper. It has a VERY EASY interface to understand. Looks like this:

3. At the top of the main window, you want to put the tbolt (source) drive on the left. Put the target (t7) on the right.

5. Before going further, click the "options" button. You will see this:

6. In the "during copy" popup, MAKE SURE you choose "erase xx, then copy files from xxx".
(this will erase the t7 drive to the proper format for the version of the OS you're using -- which I don't think you have told us)

7. Click ok to go back to the main window.

8. Click "copy now", then sit back and ... wait. When the clone is done, quit SD.

9. You should now be able to open the t7 cloned backup in the finder, and it should "look like" the tbolt source -- identical.

10. Now, open the start disk preference pane. Do you see the t7?

11. If yes, click the lock icon and enter your password. Then click the t7 to select it as the new boot drive.

MOMENT OF TRUTH:

12. POWER OFF the Mac and DISCONNECT the tbolt drive. Press the power on button to reboot.

13. Do you now get "a good boot" from the t7 -- to login?
If so, you're done.

Good luck!

 

[krackerjack21ca]

OP:

Since things don't seem to be working for you, how about trying things "my way"?

PRINT OUT THIS REPLY if you can.

Let's get going.

1. Boot from the existing tbolt drive. Get to the finder.

2. Download SuperDuper from this link:

https://www.shirt-pocket.com/mint/pepper/orderedlist/downloads/download.php?file=https://www.shirt-pocket.com/downloads/SuperDuper%21.dmg

Put it into your applications folder.
SuperDuper is FREE to use as we're going to use it.

2. Connect the t7 SSD. Let its icon mount on the desktop.

3. Open SuperDuper. It has a VERY EASY interface to understand. Looks like this:
View attachment 2145295

3. At the top of the main window, you want to put the tbolt (source) drive on the left. Put the target (t7) on the right.

5. Before going further, click the "options" button. You will see this:
View attachment 2145296
6. In the "during copy" popup, MAKE SURE you choose "erase xx, then copy files from xxx".
(this will erase the t7 drive to the proper format for the version of the OS you're using -- which I don't think you have told us)

7. Click ok to go back to the main window.

8. Click "copy now", then sit back and ... wait. When the clone is done, quit SD.

9. You should now be able to open the t7 cloned backup in the finder, and it should "look like" the tbolt source -- identical.

10. Now, open the start disk preference pane. Do you see the t7?

11. If yes, click the lock icon and enter your password. Then click the t7 to select it as the new boot drive.

MOMENT OF TRUTH:

12. POWER OFF the Mac and DISCONNECT the tbolt drive. Press the power on button to reboot.

13. Do you now get "a good boot" from the t7 -- to login?
If so, you're done.

Good luck!

Thanks for that process. I will give it a try in the next couple days and let you know how it works out.

Cheers!!

 

[krackerjack21ca]

OP:

Since things don't seem to be working for you, how about trying things "my way"?

PRINT OUT THIS REPLY if you can.

Let's get going.

1. Boot from the existing tbolt drive. Get to the finder.

2. Download SuperDuper from this link:

https://www.shirt-pocket.com/mint/pepper/orderedlist/downloads/download.php?file=https://www.shirt-pocket.com/downloads/SuperDuper%21.dmg

Put it into your applications folder.
SuperDuper is FREE to use as we're going to use it.

2. Connect the t7 SSD. Let its icon mount on the desktop.

3. Open SuperDuper. It has a VERY EASY interface to understand. Looks like this:
View attachment 2145295

3. At the top of the main window, you want to put the tbolt (source) drive on the left. Put the target (t7) on the right.

5. Before going further, click the "options" button. You will see this:
View attachment 2145296
6. In the "during copy" popup, MAKE SURE you choose "erase xx, then copy files from xxx".
(this will erase the t7 drive to the proper format for the version of the OS you're using -- which I don't think you have told us)

7. Click ok to go back to the main window.

8. Click "copy now", then sit back and ... wait. When the clone is done, quit SD.

9. You should now be able to open the t7 cloned backup in the finder, and it should "look like" the tbolt source -- identical.

10. Now, open the start disk preference pane. Do you see the t7?

11. If yes, click the lock icon and enter your password. Then click the t7 to select it as the new boot drive.

MOMENT OF TRUTH:

12. POWER OFF the Mac and DISCONNECT the tbolt drive. Press the power on button to reboot.

13. Do you now get "a good boot" from the t7 -- to login?
If so, you're done.

Good luck!

Well, I'm very to say this worked!! It is a bit slow starting up, but once the OS loads it moves along nicely. Thanks again for your help, it's much appreciated.

 

[krackerjack21ca]

Thanks for that process. I will give it a try in the next couple days and let you know how it works out.

Cheers!!

I tried rebooting with the tbolt chassis still on and the mac tried to boot onto the old drive instead of the T7. I haven't formatted it yet, but I'm curious if even after I format the old drive if the mac will still look to boot to the thunderbolt device first. It isn't a problem to turn the chassis off whenever the mac reboots. I'm just not fully sure on the boot hierarchy of a mac os.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"It is a bit slow starting up, but once the OS loads it moves along nicely."

You have to do this:
1. Open the "startup disk" preference pane
2. Click the lock and enter your password
3. Click the icon for the external SSD
4. Close system preferences and reboot

Does the boot procedure now move along better?

Didn't I tell you that "my way" would work?

 

[krackerjack21ca]

OP wrote:
"It is a bit slow starting up, but once the OS loads it moves along nicely."

You have to do this:
1. Open the "startup disk" preference pane
2. Click the lock and enter your password
3. Click the icon for the external SSD
4. Close system preferences and reboot

Does the boot procedure now move along better?

Didn't I tell you that "my way" would work?

Finally had a chance to double check that setting... the external drive was set as the startup disk, but I went thru the motions of reselecting it and after a restart it worked flawlessly. Thanks again for your help!!