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I'd probably pay $75-125 depending on the condition of the battery and power adapter
Thanks all for your replies.

I'm still puzzled if we really need the original discs to reinstall macOS X on it or not. Isn't a iso on a USB drive enough to install it like we would do it on a MBP?
You don't need the original discs that came with it. You just need the discs for SOME compatible version of Mac OS X. Leopard ought to have been the highest version that any 12-inch PowerBook G4 could go to. But if you need to be able to have access to the Classic (Mac OS 9.2.2 or earlier) runtime environment, you'll need no newer than version 10.4.11 of Tiger. Tiger is OKAY on a G4. Panther would probably run the smoothest.
 
I got my Twelve for free from a lad who's no longer around the forum for reasons that shall never ever be discussed again. Though, it was in a pretty sad condition. But, I brought it back to a condition I'd call "an Mac", save for an issue with some part of the battery circuitry (which after swapping in and out known good parts I've come to the conclusion is a logic board issue and thus will never be fixed ever).

Nonetheless, I personally don't really go after excellent or pristine examples anyway because I know they'll go for a pretty penny or two and all I want is cool hipster non-intel chip. The market is trending towards a great condition Twelve, especially the top end model from 2004/5, being about $150-$200 USD, which I feel is a little much, especially since while the Fifteen and Seventeen got one last hardware revision in the High-Res/DLSD models, the Twelve did not get this-- and it makes me irrationally upset-- and the old 2004 model stuck around until the end of the PowerBook line in 2006.

A great condition unit shouldn't be more than $120, and for those who just want one in the condition of "an Mac", $75.
 
Looks like I launched an unexpected war here. Thanks for all your input.

I was about to pull the trigger on a 12" PB for CA$300, will most probably skip at this point.

All I want is to have an old Mac to run Tiger or Snow Leo to run old games and make it air-gapped, so no real threat from any network.

I’m also looking at a mid-2010 polycarbonate MacBook in great shape for CA$150. It can run 10.6. I just had preferred to get a PPC for nostalgy.
 
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especially since while the Fifteen and Seventeen got one last hardware revision in the High-Res/DLSD models, the Twelve did not get this-- and it makes me irrationally upset-- and the old 2004 model stuck around until the end of the PowerBook line in 2006.

Not just that - the iBooks got a revision giving them a higher ram ceiling as well. 256MB extra matters in OS X, especially Leopard.

Looks like I launched an unexpected war here. Thanks for all your input.

I was about to pull the trigger on a 12" PB for CA$300, will most probably skip at this point.

All I want is to have an old Max to run Tiger ou Snow Leo to run old games and make it air-gapped, so no real threat from any network.

I’m also looking at a mid-2010 polycarbonate MacBook in great shape for CA$150. It can run 10.6. I just had preferred to get a PPC for nostalgy.

Yeah, 300CAD is a touch high. I'd be patient and see what pops up - especially on Kijiji(sp?) or similar.

I wouldn't pay a lot for the 2010 polycarbonate either - and watch out for cracking along the hinge area on those.
 
Take your time and find the nicest one you can find. Just don’t expect to use it as a daily driver for all the reasons listed above. It’s a museum piece.

I still have mine from when I bought it back in the day. I had used laptops for work, but had never owned one personally until I bought this. It sits on the shelf as a sort of objet d’art and I fire it up every couple of years out of nostalgia. The battery is toast.
 
Nice thread, and good to see a PowerPC post promoted on the MR home page carousel - I also spotted it there.

I've had a dozen or so PowerBook G4 12-inch units in various configurations, but only one with an SSD. Most units were initially under AU$100.

The particular upgraded PB G4 12" (1.5GHz, 1.25GB RAM, 64GB SSD) cost me around AU$30 upfront some years back, as the seller had it listed as parts-only. Then there were some added costs including around AU$90 for the 64GB mSATA SSD + mSATA-PATA adapter (prices have likely dropped on these items since). Maxing out the RAM with a 1GB SODIMM would not have set me back more than AU$5 or so. Then I also needed to replace a noisy cooling fan for about AU$25. I got lucky with PB G4 12" batteries, they seem to have held up to the test of time better than most PB G4 15" Alu/Ti and my iBook batteries.

Given the complexity of the teardown to install the SSD, I would factor the time/labour into the cost and not undervalue this component. That is unless you'd like to roll up your sleeves to install the SSD, investigate and clean out the internals, give the CPU fresh thermal paste and add in some fresh thermal pads while you're in there.

So, without the SSD, I would not pay more than AU$80 at this point in time, but given the pre-installed SSD, let's say $AU200.

I should note that I use the above PB G4 12" with the SSD most evenings (in on and off bursts), throughout the past few years, and have been pushing it along in Reduced CPU speed on both battery and AC power at all times. I run the battery down each evening as I use it to work on some side project ideas, then charge it back up overnight.

Just last night it started wigging out when compiling code and locked up hard repeatedly when attempting the same thing. So I backed up the SSD, reformatted, repartitioned and am currently restoring the partitions from backup. Hopefully, it was just some bad blocks or something (is that a thing with SSD?) and I don't need to tear it down any time soon to replace the SSD :eek:

We'll see how the restore goes, but I feel the issue I am facing here is actually the result of running a non-trim supported OS with the SSD for the past 5 years or so, and its finally giving up with its internal garbage collection...

But who knows... I've come to accept that all things fail over time. Impermanence in action. Just don't let that stop you! haha
 
nothing. I wouldn’t want a machine I couldn’t safely get online with.

You do realize that some people can't actually run all the current, modern software that their job/work requires all of the time, due to certain circumstances and they might need an older OS to run it. You probably do and are probably spoiled or a troll, but I'm pointing that out.

For instance, I can't run Catalina on my iMac 2019 because if I upgrade, certain software won't be useable anymore, because 32 Bit support has been dropped and programs won't run. Or my MBP '09, which refused to boot from El Capitan and I had to do a backup of an old device on Snow Leopard to get it to run again.

It's the same with some versions of iMovie, PowerPC Apps that had support dropped for them, and other apple or retro programs that people need OS 9 to run, either through an OS 9 machine or PowerPC's classic mode, which got dropped with Intel.

Some people also don't like the modern alternatives, or they don't run well on their machine, so they have to keep it downgraded. And as people have pointed out, there are modern browsers/web add-ons, etc, for PowerPC, if they are needed to get online and the community does a generally good job of updating those things.

I run Interwebs and TFF, and they're both great, and do what I need them to do in terms of browsing, and they are secure. I haven't run into any issues with them so far.
 
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Unable to reinstall Tiger or Leopard from a USB iso?
nope, nothing worked, that needed a specific OSX like 10.4.6
even the  store did not have the version on their external hard drive.
thenin 2009 they stopped fixing or rebooting powerbooks in their stores.
soi purchased a MacBook Air in 2010.
 
nope, nothing worked, that needed a specific OSX like 10.4.6
even the  store did not have the version on their external hard drive.
thenin 2009 they stopped fixing or rebooting powerbooks in their stores.
soi purchased a MacBook Air in 2010.
It's not an issue now - no PowerPC laptop shipped with OSX higher than 10.4.2 - so the retail Tiger disk (10.4.6) online will be fine.
 
All I know is I spent 2008-09 trying to get the exact operating software for the powerbook to no avail
I remember bring that to the apple store with a new 160GB hard drive all set for that exact OSX,
and my jaw dropping when they said we stopped booting Macs here.

Today is much different while the OSX was not available on line like now, probably.
ebay shippers would lie or send scratch disks for $70 that would not work
that was a night mare for me an I happy im done and enjoy my MacBook Air 2010 even today!
 
All I know is I spent 2008-09 trying to get the exact operating software for the powerbook to no avail
I remember bring that to the apple store with a new 160GB hard drive all set for that exact OSX,
and my jaw dropping when they said we stopped booting Macs here.
Certainly doesn't surprise me - even then, the motivation would be to sell you a new laptop rather than sustain your old one! And depending on your requirements it was probably a good move at the time.
 
Keep looking and one will pop up eventually at the right price - I got mine with a good battery, charger, adaptors, carrying case, original disks and a licenced Microsoft Office for £38:


Here it is doing stuff:


OMGGGGG GUY CHADWICK YESSSS

sidebar:

Just before I stopped asking for autographs from performers (after something Alan Alda once said in an interview on, I think, The Tonight Show or Late Night with David Letterman), I asked Guy Chadwick to sign my Canadian CD single (black label version, not white, 0422-876315-2, yes I just pulled that from my brain, no, don’t ask why) for “I Don’t Know Why I Love You”. Guy was very friendly and chill, which made a powerful impression on my 19-year-old self (especially since, by then, I’d seen small-venue concerts where the performer was a bit too primadonna for anyone ::cough:: Trent ::COUGH:: Reznor :🤧:).

This was when THoL were the closing/main act on the Spin/Fontana tour of ’92, who were preceded by Catherine Wheel, who were preceded by the fantastic opener, Ocean Colour Scene. Because this was in Texas, the three bands could fill a live club venue together, but not an arena, so the event was a lot more intimate (in the best possible way).

I still reflect on Babe Rainbow as being one of my favourite albums from ’92, and I still get frisson anytime I hear the opening guitar strings, just before kick and bass come in, for “Feel”.

That triple-header line-up was one of the best concert nights I ever attended.

/sidebar
 
You do realize that some people can't actually run all the current, modern software that their job/work requires all of the time, due to certain circumstances and they might need an older OS to run it. You probably do and are probably spoiled or a troll, but I'm pointing that out.

For instance, I can't run Catalina on my iMac 2019 because if I upgrade, certain software won't be useable anymore, because 32 Bit support has been dropped and programs won't run. Or my MBP '09, which refused to boot from El Capitan and I had to do a backup of an old device on Snow Leopard to get it to run again.

It's the same with some versions of iMovie, PowerPC Apps that had support dropped for them, and other apple or retro programs that people need OS 9 to run, either through an OS 9 machine or PowerPC's classic mode, which got dropped with Intel.

Some people also don't like the modern alternatives, or they don't run well on their machine, so they have to keep it downgraded. And as people have pointed out, there are modern browsers/web add-ons, etc, for PowerPC, if they are needed to get online and the community does a generally good job of updating those things.

I run Interwebs and TFF, and they're both great, and do what I need them to do in terms of browsing, and they are secure. I haven't run into any issues with them so far.

The UI of post-10.x macOS is inconsistent, user-hostile basura.

Quote me.
 
The UI of post-10.x macOS is inconsistent, user-hostile basura.

Quote me.
This is my interface on OS Big Sur 11.6. It's a very capable machine, but the interface is definitely cluttered and less user-friendly than older versions, and the iCloud integration is a pain in the ass; having to sign in and authenticate things is really annoying, so now I use localhost with my Mac Mini that I have made into a storage box, and it saves money as well on iCloud subscriptions (Yes, I still use iTunes 12 at times because Music App is a PITA for me and syncing my iPods):
Screenshot at Feb 22 17-04-15.png


Compare that to the simplicity, pre iCloud on my MBP '09 running SL 10.6.8:

Screen shot 2023-02-22 at 19.04.41.png


Things are a lot lighter, simplistic, and easier to run without needing to download apps either. And look at that cover flow on iTunes 10, it's just perfection. Everything is smooth and responsive and it does look a lot more cohesive. I use that Macbook when I need a large screen and distraction-free editing. It's a real treat. Haven't had ANY trouble with this on 10.6.8, unlike 10.11 El Capitan, and downloading recovery for that. It was a three-day saga until I gave up and just loaded the SL spare HD onto that HD.

And for even more simplicity (and to run OS 9 classic apps) and have less distraction, and to tinker around/experiment with, I use an iBook G4 with Tiger on it (10.4.11 that I updated from Panther through a disk install to give it to more usage). It runs well most of the time and it's a good environment for writing and streaming music. Very simple:

Picture 1.png


If I could still use Tiger today, as a daily driver on the iBook with better specs, and support, I would. Apple should have continued to work on the SL PPC version and released that fully, to give people one more version. I get that it wasn't as powerful as Intel, or as efficient, but people still used iBooks / Powerbooks as daily drivers back 12-15 years ago (and some still use them today--well they try to).

I actually prefer the 4:3 aspect ratio on the iBooks/12 Inch Powerbooks to the plastic Macbooks that came after. Apple should have kept a 4:3 option for a few more years as well. It's good for viewing older TV shows and media.
 
This is my interface on OS Big Sur 11.6. It's a very capable machine, but the interface is definitely cluttered and less user-friendly than older versions, and the iCloud integration is a pain in the ass; having to sign in and authenticate things is really annoying, so now I use localhost with my Mac Mini that I have made into a storage box, and it saves money as well on iCloud subscriptions

It’s been an ongoing discussion happening on MR and elsewhere how Apple have abandoned strict style, design, and use standards for their user experience, especially since the Silicon-oriented macOS builds have been rolled out. The counterpoint is a looser adherence to design standards can accommodate the UI/UX familiar to folks who’ve come of age in the “app era” and are accustomed to software-as-a-service for everything they do online (TV, social, etc.).

But this abandonment has also undermined Apple’s longstanding reputation for delivering consistency and clean design solutions — especially baffling since Apple had worked for decades to fine-tune the Mac OS/OS X/earlier macOS UX to be simple, yet extremely powerful within that superficial simplicity. If anything, the Silicon-era builds of macOS, in their never-ending quest to delete the line between iPadOS and macOS, are moving more toward the haphazard, every vendor-their-own-way approach one might expect with, say, a Windows 95/98.

Alternately put, it’s as if Apple’s current crop of UX/UI talent want to re-invent wheels which can’t be re-invented, and it’s steadily getting worse.

(Yes, I still use iTunes 12 at times because Music App is a PITA for me and syncing my iPods):

In my home, all but one Mac (the Tiger-bound iBook G3) use iTunes 10 (10.6.3 for most, 10.4.1 for a special case), as this was an apex for ease of use, especially whilst archiving and entering metadata, and for its stability, as well as having the widest operability (is that even a word?) of all the iTunes builds. It is able to run on everything from OS X 10.5.8 on PPC, up through the very last security update of Mojave in 2021; had a 64-bit iteration been built under that version, it would have gone even further.

All of this is to say: I don’t judge your desire to stick with iTunes over Music, as the latter is designed to sell content as its principal raison d’être, whereas the former was intended from its inception to manage one’s own library (with sales-as-a-service appended to its base later).

If I want an appliance, Apple, I will buy an appliance. (You make horrible appliances, by the way. Stick to computers.)

View attachment 2162937

Compare that to the simplicity, pre iCloud on my MBP '09 running SL 10.6.8:

Snow Leopard, as I’ve written repeatedly to the point of boring the regulars, was Apple’s high-water mark on stability, cleanliness of UI, consistency, versatility, and longevity. I often wonder how different Apple’s trajectory with post-SL builds would have differed had they not jettisoned ZFS at the eleventh hour during development of Snow Leopard. But that’s another discussion. :)


View attachment 2162942

Things are a lot lighter, simplistic, and easier to run without needing to download apps either. And look at that cover flow on iTunes 10, it's just perfection. Everything is smooth and responsive and it does look a lot more cohesive. I use that Macbook when I need a large screen and distraction-free editing. It's a real treat. Haven't had ANY trouble with this on 10.6.8, unlike 10.11 El Capitan, and downloading recovery for that. It was a three-day saga until I gave up and just loaded the SL spare HD onto that HD.

I’ve settled on High Sierra for most of my post-SL activity, as a lot of the teething issues with the change of direction, post-Yosemite, are more or less ironed out (with notable exceptions). I briefly ran Mojave on my rMBP, and realized I preferred High Sierra at that point. I may revisit Mojave in the near-future, though.


And for even more simplicity (and to run OS 9 classic apps) and have less distraction, and to tinker around/experiment with, I use an iBook G4 with Tiger on it (10.4.11 that I updated from Panther through a disk install to give it to more usage). It runs well most of the time and it's a good environment for writing and streaming music. Very simple:

Admittedly, I’ve run CandyBar/Shapeshifter on my lone iBook G3 running 10.4.11 to give it the Leopard UI treatment, as there’s a lot left to be desired (to my brain, at least) with the Tiger interface. Otherwise, 10.4.11 is comparably for PowerPC Macs as stable as 10.6.8 for early Intel Macs, with the added bonus that it’s also a Universal Binary. Tiger was a good plateau for all the work to get the Kodiak beta in 2000 to tidy up and be at its most stable and matured UI. Leopard changed gears, for worse or better. I treat Snow Leopard as the best refinement of Leopard, whereas other folks have chimed in on here to argue how Mavericks is the most refined UI of that period. (I’m kinda meh about the Lion-to-Mavericks era, but I understand where they’re coming from).


View attachment 2162943

If I could still use Tiger today, as a daily driver on the iBook with better specs, and support, I would. Apple should have continued to work on the SL PPC version and released that fully, to give people one more version. I get that it wasn't as powerful as Intel, or as efficient, but people still used iBooks / Powerbooks as daily drivers back 12-15 years ago (and some still use them today--well they try to).

I agree, but I’m also heavily biased here.

I don’t see why Apple couldn’t have released SL for PPC as a retail release, though with some features left unavailable to a PPC device by dint of not having the right architecture — not unlike how recent iterations of macOS have Silicon-only features which not even the latest and last of the Intel Macs can use, yet Intel Macs can still run those macOS versions. For example, PowerPC Macs wouldn’t have had access to OpenCL, but could have had legacy support for pre-OpenCL GPUs to accommodate PowerPC users. Further, only final-edition PowerPC Macs would have had the means to keep up well with a PowerPC-accommodated retail release of Snow Leopard (namely, with features like support for PCIe, SATA, and processing speed grading).

But… welp.
 
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nothing. I wouldn’t want a machine I couldn’t safely get online with.

Then that would discount a machine running Windows. ;)

They ignore the security by obscurity of running PowerPC-based OS X, in a time when fresh exploits are going to be preoccupied with later Intel or Silicon hardware, as that’s where the bulk of active Macs online live.

I agree with your entire rebuttal @B S Magnet but I've quoted this segment in particular because it's especially astute. Most script kiddies and other crackers will have negligible knowledge and interest in the PPC CPU family and the associated OS X versions. Even some Intel Macs are immune to attacks and exploits by virtue of their age and type. For example, I was surprised to discover the other day that 1st and 2nd generation Mac Pro CPU's are unaffected by the Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities.

Also, if you own more than one computer - as is the case for nearly all of us within this community, you can decide which ones even need to be taken online. One of my machines is air-gapped - and always will be (I bet you can guess which OS it runs) and even during the heyday of PPC Macs, an older sibling delegated Internet access to a dedicated machine whilst permanently air-gapping others which contained sensitive data.
 
64DC389B-A420-482C-BAEA-43623AC130DE.jpeg
Finally bought a super clean 14-inch iBook (1.42GHz, not max out with only 1GB of ram) for CA$60. And I also found a mid-2010 Poly MacBook (2.4GHz, 4GB of ram) for CA$70. This one has minor scratchs but overall un good shape. Good picks I believe.

Yup, both batteries are obsolete.
 
View attachment 2164563Finally bought a super clean 14-inch iBook (1.42GHz, not max out with only 1GB of ram) for CA$60. And I also found a mid-2010 Poly MacBook (2.4GHz, 4GB of ram) for CA$70. This one has minor scratchs but overall un good shape. Good picks I believe.

Yup, both batteries are obsolete.
good for you, enjoy!
 
View attachment 2164563Finally bought a super clean 14-inch iBook (1.42GHz, not max out with only 1GB of ram) for CA$60. And I also found a mid-2010 Poly MacBook (2.4GHz, 4GB of ram) for CA$70. This one has minor scratchs but overall un good shape. Good picks I believe.

Yup, both batteries are obsolete.

Seeing that 1.42GHz iBook G4 is bringing back a mess of memories. I had that exact same system, same specs, resting on my lap frequently whilst I was at the university library (where I basically lived when I wasn’t at home), as I pored over innumerable journal articles, using Sirsi to look up and retrieve even more articles, and looking out the window whenever I needed to come up for air.

Boo on the battery, but yours is a well-cared for survivor. Enjoy it! :)
 
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Seeing that 1.42GHz iBook G4 is bringing back a mess of memories. I had that exact same system, same specs, resting on my lap frequently whilst I was at the university library (where I basically lived when I wasn’t at home), as I pored over innumerable journal articles, using Sirsi to look up and retrieve even more articles, and looking out the window whenever I needed to come up for air.

Boo on the battery, but yours is a well-cared for survivor. Enjoy it! :)
I had the 12-inch 1.33GHz back in 2005. Really enjoyed it for my days in college too. Such a nice laptop with the 4:3 screen and long battery life (compared to PC from those days). I personally remember Adium as my main IM software to chat with colleagues.
 
Hey everybody, I just replaced the thermal paste, and HDD with an SSD in my 12" PB G4.. After about 1.5 hours of work, I popped in a Leopard DVD, and amazingly my Superdrive doesn't work.. The disc wasn't "sucked in".. and the drive made no noise.. Any ideas? Cable appeared to be plugged in when I reassembled laptop.
 
Holy crap that's a good looking iBook.

My recent longing for my old 12" PowerBook brought me here. Back in 2012, a friend came to visit and surprised me with a nearly pristine PowerBook 12" 1.33GHz I think it was. Battery worked and it had everything, including max RAM and AirPort. I lived on that machine designing my website, making business cards, using CAD software, etc. for well over a year before a computer repair customer forfeited their MacBook after the cost of the repair. I still have the MacBook but wish I had the PowerBook. I honestly don't know where it went.

If you're wondering, I was able to get along fairly well in 2012 using a PowerBook from 2003. That was at the ragged edge of its usefulness, though. It was losing compatibility with web 2.0 and developers had fled PPC years before so support was drying up. I've heard so many people swear to the performance of PowerPC Macs but they don't tell you that their claims usually requires that videos be in very particular formats or use very particular software and optimization tweaks etc.

It sucked. For what you're looking for, though, I think you've got quite the machine. Yours will likely fly with Tiger. I find that old Macs play quite nicely with the most modern ones. I have absolutely no issue sharing files across my network from my M1 Macs to my G4 mini. I would say my Mac mini is enjoyable enough that I will not plan to ever get rid of it. It kind of has a hard time with any of the major games from the era, including Halo, but otherwise plays Sims and Simcity quite well. It's just nice to squeeze what I can out of it but without the expectation it will ever get online.

You should google the "penny" fix for iBook's as, if I recall, the G4's had a notorious issue with some solder balls or something and I remedied a dozen with a simple shim. I never resorted to the heat-gun treatment nor would I ever.

What a pleasant experience it must be to type on that thing and carry it around. I do hope to hear that you find a source to replace (rebuild) the battery. Look into getting an adapter to put a small SSD in there and expand the storage. It's not really going to do much to improve throughput (it's still IDE) but it helps the battery last, it runs quieter, and you won't have to hold your breath for the inevitable death. Personally, I'm simply going to adapt a SATA drive to my G4 mini because I enjoy the sound of a hard drive clicking and whirring away. I really believe it's part of the experience with vintage computing which is why I am sweating the inevitable death of my Quadra's super loud SCSI drive. If you're a purist, there are still brand new (old stock) IDE drives out there from Western Digital and Hitachi but be sure to buy from somebody reputable because it is just as likely it's a knock-off.

Again, you have quite the beautiful iBook. I think you'd regret if you got bored and sold it.
 
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Cable appeared to be plugged in when I reassembled laptop.
It's quite easy for the connectors on the old interfaces to look as though they are fully seated when they aren't. I'd say disconnect and reconnect and pay special attention to it.
 
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