Valve demanded $1,000,000 advance to port HL2

Discussion in 'Mac and PC Games' started by dogtanian, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. dogtanian macrumors 6502

    dogtanian

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    #1
    Heard that the discussions didn't go well but didn't know Valve were making monetary demands...hardly as if Apple couldn't have afforded to pay but it just shows how little interest Apple has in gaming I suppose. Heres the Apple insider link, funny cartoon!

    http://www.appleinsider.com/article...ve_jobs_and_gabe_newell_talk_half_life_2.html

    I think Apple needs to invest/support some good mac gaming ventures early on and get something more than Blizzard and Aspyr behind them. Only time will tell if Jobs is interested in gaming on mac I guess but at the moment, he's just giving people another reason to install Windows on bootcamp.
     
  2. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #2
    Clearly Jobs is ok with people installing BootCamp...its an Apple product. And since you need Apple hardware and Applesoftware, I think Jobs would love everyone in the world to use bootcamp!
     
  3. kkat69 macrumors 68020

    kkat69

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    #3
    I would have told Valve to go screw themselves.

    If Valve wanted to make a game for the Mac then go for it. It benifits Valve to do so. They'll make that million in revenue.

    But put for a brief moment the same thing unto Microsoft.

    Give me a million bucks or no HL for Windows, I'm pretty positive Bill would say "fine go make it for mac then"

    Sorry no love lost here from this recent Mac convert towards Valve. This article has nothing to do with Apple getting serious about gaming. They can do it without the help or demands from Valve.

    If Valve wants to get on board they can do so if they wish. They don't need money from Apple. This is just another one of Valves "you jerked us around so we're gonna jerk you around now" and if I were Apple I'd tell them to take a flying leap!!
     
  4. dogtanian thread starter macrumors 6502

    dogtanian

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    #4
    Its just a shame Apple 'appears' not to be pro-actively seeking to support gaming developers and seem to be happy to accept crappy cider ports from EA.

    I wouldn't say Apple shouldn't have said no I should mention, I pretty much agree its ridiculous...
     
  5. yetanotherdave macrumors 68000

    yetanotherdave

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    #5
    Yeah, I'd have told them to go jump too.
    If the game is good, they'll make back development costs and profit through sales.
    If they went to nintendo and demanded to be paid to develop on the wii they'd also be told where to go. Nintendo would turn round and say, no, but you can BUY our development kit :p

    Valve are being arrogant*, like they are saying mac is not worth developing for, so we need compensation before we'll get ourselves dirty on your platform.

    *I realise apple are excessively arrogant, even more reason why valve would never get away with that!
     
  6. kkat69 macrumors 68020

    kkat69

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    #6
    In other words everyone told Newell to F-Off when he asked for $1 million for the rights to publish HL.

    Way to shoot yourself in the foot Valve.

    True, the most common and affordable Mac hardware can't truely run some of the higher end graphically instense games, I'm not saying Apple isn't doing itself any favors by sitting on their backsides when it comes to gaming. To each his own there.

    I still say that story just makes Valve look more stupider (yes I said stupider to make a pun) than they already do.

    One can even look at it this way, "Hey HL fans, we'll be more than willing to help port the game over but you need to not only pay us for up front costs of 1million bucks but also pay us per game as well, sooo no money, no honey baby" in a nut shell "if you aren't on windows your not our fans"

    Valve do yourselves a favor, try to make the game (not that I would play it) or better yet, how about asking someone like Aspyr "How do you program for macs" and maybe you'll like it. Heck Aspyr doesn't really put out any original games. They PORT already written windows games. SOOOOOOO logic would be, since your games written, how about hiring a consultant for chump change and giterdun. You just might be surprised and see your sales increase more.
     
  7. contoursvt macrumors 6502a

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    Jul 22, 2005
    #7
    I'm sure there is more than just a simple port. Those developers need to get paid, there will be administration and other costs too. The company has to sell how many copies of the mac version just to break even?

    The Apple user base is not big enough IMO. Out of all the mac users in the world, how many have current machines with strong enough video capabilities to play? We can eliminate all the G4 and older machines so we're looking at G5 and newer. Now out of all those machines, how many are into playing games. Lets say 1/4 of them if that? Less maybe. You really think they will sell enough to make a profit? I dont think so.

    Apple IMO is retarded. The whole problem is user base. There needs to be more OSX machines for development to happen. As long as Apple continues to make minimally upgradable all in one boxes on one end (which are still overpriced for the average joe to buy) to the very flexable and much more expensive mac pro, that leave NOTHING for the average user to buy. Sure they can buy a mac notebook but really, its not going to be a powerhouse for gaming so game developers are not going to pay attention.

    Apple.... MAKE a god damn mid side tower machine that is NOT based on notebook parts. Make it with a desktop Core2 cpu, full size DDR2 RAM, a couple HD bays and a PCI-E slot so video cards can be swapped if need be. Oh ya, price it comparibly to a half decent HD desktop or Dell desktop machine!

    Ok so *IF* the average person COULD afford a semi upgradable mac, then maybe there would be a real userbase...one big enough where it wouldnt be a gamble for a game maker to dump huge $$ into.

    The problem is Steve IMO. He will not give the users what they wants. He will bring out what he wants. He wants an artsy form over function machine machine that will be disposable so you can buy another one when the logic board dies or when the screen dies or when the processor goes or when the whole thing goes because its idling at 60C + will load temps past 80C. Wonderful. Price replacement parts and the labor to swap it real high to make sure another machine will be sold instead. Mac pros are at least good for upgradability but may as well toss it into the trash if it breaks 3 years down the road if you have apple care or after 1 year if you only have standard warranty. Prices are insane to service them. Poor people who have the liquid cooled G5 duals. Dropping like flies.

    I have my G4 733 machine which is really old but fully usable. If a processor or mainboard ever went and I cannot find a used part off ebay, then the whole thing is going into some computer recycling place. Thats a shame for a usable computer. Cant imagine if I had paid full pop for it OR if it was a much newer and more expensive computer....

    The reason I'm bitter about all this is that the users suffer but for no reason. There is no reason for any of this to be happening. They could use much more standard components in a slightly more standard form factor, thus reducing purchase and repair costs by a lot.

    Anyway I'm done with my rant.





     
  8. dogtanian thread starter macrumors 6502

    dogtanian

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    #8
    To be honest, if Leopard had fast OS switching (Which I still have no idea seeing as the features have been dropping like flies) it wouldn't be so much of a problem for me as I could quickly boot into XP to play games.
    Anybody have any idea if this is going to be included or was it shelved?
     
  9. sikkinixx macrumors 68020

    sikkinixx

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    #9
    by my calculations that would mean 1,000,000 doughnuts for Gabe Newell to eat while he mocks the PS3, Windows Vista, Apple....
     
  10. MRU macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #10
    $1 mil is next to feck all for a game these days, considering budgets of games is so high. Stranglehold cost $30 mil to make, developers spending that kind of dough on a risk (only about 1 out of 10 games makes a good profit at retail) then for any publisher to demand finacial incentive to reduce the risk, is fair play.
     
  11. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #11
    I'd love HL2 on Mac if Apple would finally give us an option to turn off built in monitors. HL2 on my 20" 16:10 display? Yes. HL2 on a 17" 16:10? no.

    Plus it gives my XP partition another thing to do.
     
  12. GFLPraxis macrumors 604

    GFLPraxis

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    #12
    Can't you make the built in monitor secondary, and the game will run on the big one?
     
  13. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #13
    Expect HL2 is no risk, its going to sell....they just want 1M extra, they are being greedy, and then they said it was Apple fault for not "courting" devs.....
     
  14. contoursvt macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    Easy to say when its not your money.

     
  15. psychofreak Retired

    psychofreak

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    #15
    Hopefully with the massive marketshare increases Leopard will bring, they will see no risk whatsoever in making Mac games...
     
  16. kkat69 macrumors 68020

    kkat69

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    #16
    I concur. Valve is just being a "tit for tat" and mocking the Mac community in it's demand.

    Sure by todays' industry 1mil isn't a lot of money but come on now.

    To say "sure we'll port it over, give us money to do it." If I have to give a company 1mil to make a product that THEY are going to get all the profit then I except to OWN the product. I'll pay them to port it but in the end they get NOTHING and I get EVERYTHING.

    Otherwise, they can port it and gain all the profits. With a mentality like Valve has and to turn it around and blame Apple, if I were Apple I would seek out a company to develop a game from scratch utilizing current gaming engines and it be a totally native Mac port with no windows port in the future.
    Then demand 99mil to port it to windows and 99c for each copy made to sell and another 99c for each cd case for the game, oh and if you want a custom mod you have to pay another 99c (only usable for that computer and your only allowed 4 computers to use that mod) and sell the game on iTunes for 9.99. Ohh and if you want the widescreen version of the game that's 14.99 HAHAHA j/k.

    Besides someone already mentioned here how many machines can actually handle all that HL has to offer? Sure some of us have machines that can run it but as good as a windows box?

    When Apple starts putting higher end graphics cards or making the mac pro easier to obtain cost wise plus have comparable equipment, I'll stick to what I have and can do without HL. I've done fine for a long time without it I can continue to do so. If I need a high end gaming box I can build one cheaper than I can buy a CTO.
     
  17. martychang macrumors regular

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    Sep 3, 2007
    #17
    why is everyone talking about Half-Life 2 being too demanding? When it first came out a few years ago I had a dirt cheap PC with a PCI(not PCI-Express, PCI) video card, and it ran Half-Life 2 beautifully at high settings. I have little doubt that it'd run decently on an Intel GMA 950, and it would run flawlessly on an Intel X3100 or any modern dedicated card.

    I'd only worry about the G4 and below people at all, and I believe the later Powerbook G4's would handle it exceptionally(their GPU's are better than what I had in my aforementioned PC).
     
  18. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    #18
    My Radeon 9600 run Half Life 2 just fine. The PowerBook similarly equipped shouldn't have any problems.
     
  19. Mac Kiwi macrumors 6502a

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    New Zealand
    #19
    Sounds very much to me like Valve did not want to do the port anyway.They knew precisely how Apple would react to a demand for one million slides.


    As market share increases it may become harder for game developers not to support Mac.I mean they have to be spewing at the idea of larger Mac marketshare.It means spending more time and money for a different OS for a similar return.


    A lot of developers {not just games} want to develop for one OS if its at all possible.We have all seen companies really pushing bootcamp and Mac license to Windows license switches,not to mention foot dragging on finishing upgrades as well.



    This behavior {as Mac share rises} will become more so over time,until the market share is high enough so they have no choice.
     
  20. pilotError macrumors 68020

    pilotError

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    #20
    A million is nothing in the big scheme of things.

    Valve had every right to ask for it. They have to build a team to go Mac native. That million would probably get 5 people for a year. Its not like there's unlimited potential on the Mac and why should Valve assume all the risk. I'm sure it would take millions more just to get the thing tested, produced and supported. Its not like they held a gun to his head or were really screwing him.

    Game makers have been wanting to make games for Apple, its just that Apple doesn't have any love for the gaming market and will always choose more lucrative projects to spend their time and money on. They looked at gaming and a gaming console back when they were deciding what to do next. The gaming industry didn't make sense to them in terms of payback, thats why they built the iPhone.

    How many reports have you heard, where the game companies asked to have an API updated or changed only to go into the voids never to be seen again?
     
  21. garethlewis2 macrumors 6502

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    Dec 6, 2006
    #21
    Why oh why does everybody completely misunderstand the reasons for not porting.

    First, there are bejillions of PC gamers compared to Mac gamers. Hell there are bejillions of PCs you can get from off the street that will have a better GPU than most recent Macs.

    Second. Image. Apple spent so long telling everybody who would listen and most fan boys agree with this blindly, OS X is for work and doing and digital editing. Games are seen as childish.

    Third. Due to reason two, there are 1,000,000 Mac Owners. Alot, read huge number would be in repo and digital shops. A significant amount would be mom and pops living room for email and photo stuff and a small proportion would be kitted out for games. Theres not a chance in hell that Valve could shift 1,000,000 copies of HL2 on the Mac. If a PC company like Sierra was told tommorow that they were going to shift 1,000,000 copies of TimeShift, etc, the chairman would be doing cart wheels down the road naked.

    If we count all the Apple gamers on this forum we would probably have less than 1000 people. Now if we do that on all the forums and remove all the duplicates, that figure isn't going to be massive, definately not near 1,000,000
     
  22. madmax_2069 macrumors 6502a

    madmax_2069

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    #22
    people must be forgetting www.themacelite.com, where you can take a PC video card and flash it to work on Mac. a Geforce 6800 GT is more then enough to run and play HL2. they even go a step further and having a 7800GS to use. and most of these are on highly upgraded G4 systems , like dual 7455 1.4ghz, dual 7447 1.8ghz, and dual 7448 1.8 ghz cpu's. those would be more then enough to run and play HL 2

    a G5 would run it with ease, any intel Mac would also run it with ease. valve is just beating around the bush and poking fun at apple. i do think Apple needs to have more games on there systems from other developers. if they can do that then Apple would gain users which means more hardware and software sales and valve would also make out by selling more copies of HL2.

    i dont understand why Apple is so against games on Mac, but i can also understand where Apple is coming from, cause Macs are not really a game platform. but that is also the reason they dont have a larger userbase then they have now.

    allot of the time games drive hardware and software sales. and games is also what drives hardware developers to make faster and better CPU's and GPU's. so games isn't just about gaming, yes users play games, but games drive hardware and software sales and drive hardware developers to strive to make better and faster hardware to run the games.
     
  23. Eric5h5 macrumors 68020

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    #23
    You seem to be significantly overestimating the amount of effort a port normally takes. If it was really that bad, no games would ever be ported. For example, Ryan Gordon is doing the Mac and Linux versions of UT3 on his own. Blizzard's entire Mac team (which does Mac versions of all their games) is about 5 people last I heard. It doesn't take "millions" to port and market a Mac version; there just isn't that much money in the Mac gaming market. Asking for $1 million up-front is simply Valve's way of saying "get lost", nothing more, end of story.

    Still, Havok used to be that way, but now they've apparently become more reasonable, and now Guitar Hero III on the Mac is using Havok. GameSpy, earlier this year I believe, also changed their minds and now Mac games can afford to use GameSpy again. So it's possible Valve could change their minds and charge a fee more in line with the Mac market's economic realities; you never know....

    --Eric
     
  24. twoodcc macrumors P6

    twoodcc

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    #24
    that's what i'm hoping for also
     
  25. dethl macrumors regular

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    Austin, TX
    #25
    I have a flashed BFG 6800 GT card (custom clocked to 370/500 by me) thanks to www.themacelite.com. My machine more than easily can handle anything thrown at it. I have a 7800 GS waiting for me back home when I go for Thanksgiving.

    It also helps that I've thrown 3.5GB of RAM into my system too. As we speak there is 1.24GB of RAM completely free and my pagefile has shown ZERO use (with an uptime of 8 days now).

    Valve needs to get their heads out of their asses and just develop. It will sell. I would be one of the first people in line for HL2 (especially portal!) if they released it. Then again it comes as no surprise as they canceled HL1 for the Mac because they were too wussy to have to do tech support for Mac and PC at the same time. Nice going there guys.

    I put my money where my mouth is - and support vendors that support the Mac. As long as Valve remains anti-Mac, I remain anti-Valve (though I wouldn't like to....they have some really creative people there).
     

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