Vaults Missing?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by MiniD3, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. MiniD3 macrumors 6502a

    MiniD3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    #1
    Hi Guys, me again, :eek:
    I'm really getting the hang of editing with Aperture but have come across a glitch

    Had 2 vaults running for about a week, now gone missing?
    A Google search indicates just set up 2 vaults again?

    Is this the right approach or am I just doing something wrong to cause the vaults to go missing?
    ....Gary
     
  2. MiniD3 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MiniD3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    #2
    Some heads_up

    Been all around the net trying to find the answer,
    Looks like this may not have happened to anybody else,

    Decided to create 2 new vaults and back them up again,
    Status- as I'm typing this, second vault is now backing up,

    "Appears" to be working OK at the moment, would be good to know if anybody else had the problem as well and where the first 2 cauls went?

    lastly, this will be covered by a full back-up and carbon copy cloner is on the short list, maybe this Aperture app is not as stable as forest envisaged?
    ....Gary
     
  3. Designer Dale macrumors 68040

    Designer Dale

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Location:
    Folding space
    #3
    Where is the Vault located? Internal or external?

    I occasionally have A3 drop the path to one of my vaults, but that is easy enough to fix. There's an Update Vault Path in the Pop Up menu to the right of the Vault thing down there in the side bar.

    Sometimes my external drives will unmount themselves just for the fun of it and then Aperture can't find them. I no longer have an external Vault.

    CCC backs up my system and I have my Aperture Library backed up to a seperate drive by the same app.

    Nothing seems to be maintenance free it seems.

    Dale
     
  4. MiniD3 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MiniD3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    #4
    Thanks Dale
    I can see why you use CCC,
    looking at the bottom right of the vaults, I can only see,
    add vault,
    remove vault,
    update vault path, and
    restore library, (looked a bit scary for my inexperience)
    ....Gary
     
  5. flynz4 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #5
    I have also stopped using vaults.

    I used to use have two vaults on a pair of external HDDs... with one always offsite (at my office). I had extra space on the drives (my A3 library is about 400GB and my HDDs are 1.5TB)... so I also made a CCC clone of my A3 library on the same HDD.

    Over time, I've come to the conclusion that having a CCC clone of my library is better than having a vault (because in a pinch, I can just run the library off the HDD)... and plus CCC is extremely fast in making incremental updates to the backup libraries.

    I have since deleted my vaults... and just clone the full library.

    /Jim
     
  6. MiniD3 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MiniD3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    #6
    Thanks Jim,
    Interesting! Sounding like these vaults are a little "glitchy"
    I guess I could run the whole 3
    CCC, vaults and time machine?
    ....Gary
     
  7. flynz4 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #7
    I was running:
    • Time Machine/Time Capsule
    • Crashplan+/Crashplan Central
    • Aperture Vaults (pair of ext HDDs)
    Now I am running:
    • Time Machine/Time Capsule
    • Crashplan+/Crashplan Central
    • CCC Clone: Personal Media - Aperture & FCPX (pair of ext HDDs)

    BTW: I read (on ApertureExpert.com) but I have never tried, if you rename a vault to be an aperture library... it really is one.

    For me... I found the vault updates to be really slow. By contrast, updates to my cloned library via CCC usually just take a few minutes.

    /Jim
     
  8. MiniD3 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MiniD3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    #8
    Wow!
    I thought I was the over cautious one, appears I'm heading in the best direction, glad I'm always backing up on import now, hate to go through all that editing again
    ...Gary
     
  9. flynz4 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #9
    I have hundreds and hundreds of hours scanning all of my pre-digital stuff (10's of thousands of photos)... and then cataloging my 400GB library.

    The scanning was really a PITA... because scanning slides/negatives is really slow... and that was after I bought a pretty expensive (~$1500) slide/negative scanner. Then... the dates of each picture are the scanning date... not the actual date.

    We put these photos in date marked projects such as:

    2013-03-17 | St Patrick Day in Dublin
    2013-04-28 | Maui vacation with Friends
    2013-05-30 | Fourth of July Party

    etc. Each event marks the start day of whatever the project... so for example... all 2 weeks of our Maui vacation are in that one project.

    I have about 1200 projects. Then I went into each project and correct the date/time of images to match the date of the project... so that was one hell of a long job.

    Next... we are going through project by project... making sure that all photos are geo-tagged. Any non-native geotagged photo (almost all) is given a generic geotag for the location of the project it is contained within (ex: Maui).

    Everything above is done.

    Now we are going through... project by project assigning keywords for each immediate and extended family member... particular event types (weddings, christening, graduations, etc)... particular activities (skiing, sailing, flying, horseback riding, etc). The keywording is going faster than expected. I have been able to go through a few years of photos in an evening... as long as my wife is helping. We are about 50% of the way through keywording.

    Next step, after keywording will be an approximate rating. My plan is:

    1 star: Crap photo that I am not willing to toss
    2 star: Crap photo that has some family member or event that we would not want to delete
    3 star: Good enough to auto populate a slideshow... maybe the top 300 or so pictures of any person, place, event, etc
    4 star: Anything good enough to consider publishing in a family photo book on a subject
    5 star: Not assigned any photo until after careful selection... and almost certainly after enhancing in PS or Nik Software to make it a select.

    I will probably create a "select" keyword to capture my best of my best.

    So... with this much effort... there is no way in hell I want to take any chances. Plus... it is worth the effort. I'll be able to create so many automated smart albums that really show off my best work... either in print, or electronically.

    /Jim
     
  10. MiniD3 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MiniD3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    #10
    Hi Jim,

    Now I feel I got off lightly, :)
    Not sure I would cope with that challenge yet,
    My next move is to CCC and try and work out a simple plan,

    Sorry, more questions
    My original plan for a CCC backup was to connect a HDD and do backup with time machine, then swap out with another HDD and run backup again,

    What I don't know is if the time machine actually backs up everything?
    People talk about a "boot drive" here but I do not know if the TM will do that?
    ....Gary
     
  11. swordio777 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    #11
    Hi Gary,

    Time machine won't create a bootable backup - it only backs up files. So if your internal drive crashes you'll need to boot up using the CD / pen drive that came with your mac or a boot drive you've created yourself. I believe newer macs come with a safe-boot partition on the internal drive, but mine is a 2009 iMac so I'm afraid I can't advise on that.

    Unlike time machine, CCC will create a fully bootable backup. If your internal drive goes down you can just plug in your backup, boot from that & be up & running again in minutes.

    Personally I use SuperDuper rather than CCC, but it does pretty much the same thing. I have 2 backups of both my internal drive & my external "photos" drive (one copy of each on-site, and one of each off-site) which I rotate every 2 weeks. With this set up I don't have a need to use vaults at all.

    Hope that helps.
     
  12. MiniD3 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MiniD3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    #12
    All good, appreciate the heads-up on the boot drive, thinking I was OK but in reality, not OK thank you!
    And yes, the new iMac came with no disk so CCC is a real priority now
    Ive added this to the list of questions for apple the next time I'm in town
    Must get out and shoot some images again, starting to get square eyes :)
    Thanks again for all your help
    .....Gary
     
  13. ChrisA macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Location:
    Redondo Beach, California
    #13
    The advantage of CCC is that it is very easy to understand and simple to use. It can not replace Aperture's Vaults completely.

    The Vault can be used to transfor a partial library between computers. The Aperture licenses allows you to install one copy of Aperture on a desktop computer and one on a notebook. The idea is that you keep a partial copy of the library on the notebook and the full up library on some RAID connected to the desktop.

    CCC only works as a backup for one computer. and on top of that it ONLY works for backing up a MANAGED library where the image files are actually inside the library.

    CCC also has a problem when the library can't fit on one drive, perhaps you have it on a RAID.

    You first line of defense should be Time Machine. Let it copy your entire system to at least one TM drive. TM will now ping-pong hourly backups between multiple locations. This is very good. I did have a TM drive fail a while back. Use two.

    But any connected backup can fail simultaneously with the system drive that holds the live data. The #1 reason for lost data is theft of the equipment. Next is operator or software error that corrupts or deletes the files, then lightening hitting the utility pole a mile or doe from your house, kill everything that is plugged into the AC power. Then house fires and floods.

    Vaults are for off-line backup, keep them in a fire safe. Same for CCC backups. Time Machine stays plugged in 24x7
     
  14. MiniD3 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MiniD3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    #14
    Hi Chris,

    >"CCC also has a problem when the library can't fit on one drive, perhaps you have it on a RAID."

    Couldn't you use CCC to back-up, (copy), each drive separately?
    ....Gary
     
  15. swordio777 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    #15
    I've never used CCC, but based on my experience of SuperDuper I'd imagine that you could easily clone the RAID array to another similar RAID array. I certainly wouldn't think it would be any problem, however your mac (and in turn CCC) will see the raid array as a single drive, so if it's 12TB, then you'll need a second 12TB array to clone to.

    Gary, not sure if your question was asking whether you could clone each drive of the raid array separately? The answer to this is No, because your mac can only see one big drive.

    If you meant clone the iMac's internal drive and the external raid separately then the answer is Yes, assuming the drives you are cloning onto are large enough to accept all the data.

    Hope that helps.
     
  16. MiniD3 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MiniD3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    #16
    Sorry, I guess been spending too many hours in front of this device, :)
    What I'm trying say is can CCC,
    Copy an external drive, then "clone" it to another external drive
    The reason is my external drives are a lot larger than the iMac SDD
    ....Gary
     
  17. flynz4 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    #17
    Chris,

    I do not agree completely with your post. Specifically:

    CCC can make a complete clone of your library... which in effect is what a vault does. In fact, I have read that if you rename an Aperture vault to be an Aperture library... you will find that in fact... a vault is actually a library. I've never personally tested this. My experience is that using CCC to do an incremental clone of your entire library... is MUCH faster than letting Aperture incrementally update a vault.

    The prefered way to transfer partial libraries between computers is using the two commands specifically for this purpose:

    Aperture > File > export project as new library
    Aperture > File > Import library

    Actually... CCC can backup either a managed or referenced library. To backup a referenced library, you can backup your entire pictures directory which can contain both your Aperture library... plus your managed originals.

    By contrast... An Aperture vault is only useful if your library is managed.

    Not really relevant... nor is it necessarily accurate. If you purchase Aperture on the MAS... it is licensed for every Mac that you own.

    /Jim
     
  18. swordio777 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    #18
    Yes, I'm sure you’ll be able to do that with CCC.

    My working set-up is an iMac with 500GB internal drive, and a 2TB external drive divided into 4 partitions (500GB swap disk; 500GB photos; 1TB music/movies).

    I use SuperDuper to backup my iMac to a 500GB pocket HDD, but also use SuperDuper to backup each partition of the external disc onto an appropriately sized pocket HDD (a 500GB hitachi to backup my photos and a 1TB WD for my media).

    CCC should see all the drives attached to your mac & let you clone any one drive onto any other.

    Really hope that makes sense. It's simple too use, but hard to explain using only text.

    Cheers
    Iain
     
  19. MiniD3 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MiniD3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    #19
    Thank you,
    I thought you explained that extremely well, :)
    Even for this old timer!
    I notice quite a few mention SuperDuper,
    Is SuperDuper a better option now?
    ....Gary
     
  20. swordio777 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    #20
    I honestly doubt either is "better" than the other – They do almost exactly the same thing, so it really just comes down to personal preference.

    I paid for the full version of SuperDuper before I even found out that CCC existed, so I've just stuck with it.

    One thing I dislike about SuperDuper though is that it will not allow me to clone Network Attached Storage to a USB drive. I think CCC might allow you to do this, and would therefore be a better solution for some users (including me!).

    Cheers,
    Iain
     
  21. MiniD3 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    MiniD3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Australia
    #21
    Tks Iain,

    Makes the choice very easy,
    Opening for an Apple app here, Im sure it would be popular
    ....Gary
     

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