Verizon iPhone/iOS 7 data issue update

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by redhawk87, Jan 15, 2014.

  1. redhawk87 macrumors regular

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    #1
    I asked a question a couple of days ago about using 90% of my 2GB data in ~14 days. Well, I went to the Apple store and the Verizon store and have found out a lot more about the issue (but not a solution... yet!) and figured it needed a new thread.

    Issue:

    I blew through 90% of my data in 14 days. My phone is/was using data in the middle of the night. I turned off data and resorted to wifi. While on wifi, I did not get ANY Verizon group texts, iMessages, MMS, or Visual Voicemail. I go to my voicemails and it says "Visual Voicemail is unavailable" or something like that.

    Apple Store:

    I went to the Apple Store and they did a firmware update and setup my phone as a brand new iPhone. They then turned off data and connected me to their wifi. They then sent me an iMessage from an AT&T iPhone and I received it as an iMessage. They then sent me an iMessage from a Verizon phone and I received it as a SMS. I should not of received it as an SMS. The genius told me it was a Verizon issue and to talk to Verizon about it. She also told me another genius had a customer with the same issue and that Verizon is saying it is a known issue and is refunding people for data overages.

    Verizon Store:

    I go straight over to the Verizon store and talked to a representative. They did not have wifi so he took an android phone and created a mobile hotspot. He then sent me an iMessage with his iPhone. I received it as an iMessage. He then sent me a voicemail. I received it perfectly fine.

    I thought that maybe it just happened to correct itself... until I got home. I turned off data and connected to my wifi. I can surf the internet just fine. Visual Voicemail is not working. I tested out my theory with my brother and sure enough, MMS and group texts are not working as well. Once I turn on data I get a flood of those type of messages. If anyone is experiencing this issue or knows how to fix it, that would greatly be appreciated! I will update this post once I find out more from Verizon
     
  2. I7guy macrumors G5

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    #2
    Is your router at home locked down? It may be a router issue? If you go to a Starbucks or DD can you get iMessage? Maybe do a hard reset on you router to clear the settings, some ports may be blocked.

    Considering it works on other wifi networks and not your home network, it does not seem to be a phone issue.
     
  3. cynics macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    #3
    Sounds like the "genius" was giving you a run around or had a lack of knowledge.

    To me it sounds like limited connectivity on your wifi.

    Also when you goto settings > cellular you can see what app or system service is using your data. That should have been your first step.
     
  4. redhawk87, Jan 15, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2014

    redhawk87 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #4
    I talked to Verizon and they CONFIRMED that this is a known issue with iOS 7. So the "genius" ended up being right. The only difference is that the genius is pointing blame at verizon while verizon is pointing blame at Apple. Go figure, no one wants to take responsibility for the lack of cooperation between Apple and Verizon.

    Verizon's statement:

    "We have been seeing a huge uptick in iMessages TS cases ever since iOS 7 was released, so this must be an iOS 7 specific issue. We know this is a known issue and Apple is trying to fix it. Here is $20 for being a loyal customer".

    Note: I got charged $15 in overage fees because of this issue, but the $20 credit was for "being a loyal customer". Gotta love big business and them never wanting to admit to any wrongdoing. Also, I dont know why they would refund me if its completely an Apple issue.

    Apple genius statement:

    "Sent iMessage from AT&T, works fine. Sent iMessage from Verizon, does not work. Must be a Verizon issue."

    This is not a router issue. I might of thought it was except I was able to reproduce it on 3 different wifi networks (one being the apple store). The fact is that if I am connected to the internet (whether data is on or not), I should be able to receive group texts, iMessages, MMS, and VVM from the Verizon network.

    So all in all, this is a known issue and it is being fixed. If you are having this same issue and you go over your data limit, you can get refunded for your troubles if you call and complain. Verizon will be sending me a text when the issue is resolved! I will try and remember to update this post when I hear the news.
     
  5. redhawk87 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #5
    She was not giving me a run around because the Verizon iPhone should of sent me an iMessage. If an iPhone tries to send a message to another iPhone, it should always try to send it as an iMessage first before sending it as a text. The fact I got it as a TEXT means that the other phone failed to send it as an iMessage. Now, if the Verizon TS guy is to be believed, then I think Apple needs to notify its geniuses of the issue so they can flat out say "its a known issue and we are working on a fix".

    I did check my app usage but it did not help much since I had not reset it since getting iOS 7. When I upgraded to iOS 7, the update turned my wifi off and I did not realize it till I got the warning message from Verizon. So, that data did not help me and I could not reset it until my next billing cycle because I had to ration my data and it would of not given me a good representation of a typical day or two worth of data usage.

    One thing that might be helpful is that Verizon said if you you log onto their website, you can see the exact data you used on a given day. I have not checked it yet, but that should be very helpful for people in this boat as well.
     
  6. mofunk macrumors 68000

    mofunk

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Americas
    #6
    idk if this is a fix, I'm still monitoring my usage too. I got my first iPhone last month but I have a lot of Macs gear and my friends have been coming to me for iPhone help for years… So In my Address Book I changed all the Contacts mobile number tags to iPhone. If it say mobile beside their number and they have an iPhone, I changed it to iPhone. This way it won't indadvertedly send an SMS. I know it may not be that but this way it can possible show as an iMessage. (just my thought). I've been sending iMessages with my other iOS devices but with my iPhone there is a number attached. When I started using my iPhone I noticed that every text was going out randomly eventhough I knew my friends were use iPhones.


    As for cellular data. I turn mine off. I'm around wifi about 80% of my day so I can use that. When I do turn it on, I only have the apps opened that I'm using. FB uses about 1MB every 15min on my iPhone. Under Cellular Data screen, I've also turned off those apps that Push info. Apps like gaming, stores, and stuff that I'm not using I turn it off in Use Cellar Data section. i.e. Whole Foods, Temple Run. etc.

    Man idk I've got up to 4% of my Cellular data used and I'm half way through my 30 days. I downloaded a DataMan to help me monitor.

    http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57602622-285/keep-apps-from-using-cellular-data-on-ios-7/
     
  7. redhawk87 thread starter macrumors regular

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    Raleigh, NC
    #7
    Yeah, I did that a while back. I have had my iPhone for over a year. The person I originally had issues with, it would not send the message at all. She had an iPhone and I had an iPhone. If I had data turned off, I would not get ANY messages from her. Only after I turned data on would I get a flood of iMessages that should of been sent as SMS in the first place if iMessage was unavailable.
     
  8. C DM macrumors Westmere

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    #8
    So how do iMessages and SMS factor in a huge amount of data usage? SMS doesn't use data, so that wouldn't change anything, and iMessages use very little data, so that even a lot of them wouldn't result in that much data usage (I guess unless most of them contained photos or videos all the time).
     
  9. redhawk87, Jan 16, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014

    redhawk87 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #9
    I don't know. It did not seem like the Verizon TS guy knew either. This is only the 3rd time I have had to watch my data usage. I hope this fix they are working on fixes my data usage too! The Verizon guy told me the issue had something to do with iOS 7 needing to know file sizes before sending and receiving or something. I don't thing he really understood either. I am curious to know what's using my data though. I turned on data the other day and from 11am to 6pm, safari used 150MB. I manly was just tracking a package all day with the occasional other site. I don't know how it used 150MB though. I am afraid to turn it on all the time if it is going to eat up usage like that.
     
  10. I7guy macrumors G5

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    #10
    That issue is an old confirmed issue and has been resolved via a carrier update. It does not answer why when you turn cellular data off at home you lose data connectivity with wifi on. THAT POINTS TO A ROUTER ISSUE, which had nothing (afaik) to do with this issue.

    Check your carrier version, mine is 15.x.
     
  11. redhawk87 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #11
    What was the old issue? I remember an issue way back when the iPhone 5 was released and using iOS 6 where the phones would not always connect to wifi. If that is the issue you are referring to, then yes my is a different issue. I also experienced that issue back then. I am not talking about that issue. I am talking about the known issue a Verizon rep told me about yesterday involving iOS 7 (and needing to know the file size?).

    I would think that the Apple Store would configure their routers to accept incoming traffic related to iMessages. If it was a router issue, then the Apple Store's router would block AT&T iMessages as well as Verizon iMessages right? That was not the case. I just think its odd that three out of the four different wifi networks I have connected to have had this issue. The only wifi network I did not have issues on was a Verizon Android phone with the wifi hotspot turned on. It probably worked then because of this:

    1. iPhone A sends iMessage to Verizon LTE tower
    2. iMessage gets sent from LTE tower to Android Phone
    3. Android Phone sends iMessage to iPhone B (my phone)

    That still has the iMessage going:

    phone -> LTE tower -> phone -> phone.

    That setup, phone -> tower -> phone, WORKS on my iPhone. Its essentially the same thing as turning my data on. Now, computer -> router -> phone also works on my iPhone (assuming LAN is applied when using the same router). Now lets look at my home wifi network:

    1. iPhone A sends iMessage to Verizon LTE tower
    2. LTE tower sends iMessage to the internet (oversimplified I know)
    3. Internet sends iMessage to my router
    4. Router sends iMessage to iPhone B.

    So, we have:

    phone -> LTE tower -> internet -> router -> phone

    I am going to take a wild guess and say the issue Verizon/Apple is having is:

    LTE tower -> internet

    Here is another illustration regarding the Apple store test done by the genius:

    phone -> AT&T LTE tower -> internet -> router -> phone WORKS
    phone -> Verizon LTE tower -> internet -> router -> phone FAILS
     
  12. I7guy macrumors G5

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    #12
    See the bold.

    The fact when you got home and found imessage wasn't working on wifi, but when you turned on cellular data, I might think, indicates an issue with the home router.

    There was an issue in the past, I can't recall if it was IOS 7 or not, whereby data leakage would occur on the cellular data plan. Verizon at some point issued a carrier update to fix the problem.

    So unless I'm misreading here is my interpretation:

    - imessage does not work at home unless cellular data is on.
    - you tried imessage in the apple store did not work and Verizon the Verizon store and it worked.
    - I don't know why it didn't work at the apple store, however, that it doesn't work at home maybe something with your home router.

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4347104?start=210&tstart=0

    The above is the issue I was thinking about.
     
  13. cynics macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    #13
    I'm either really confused or you are lol.

    First an iMessage is data, it's apples replacement for SMS so you don't need text plan or only need a minimal one. SMS is not using data, it's using a SMS service. Hence service plans, example 1000 call minutes/1000 text/2 gb data. All are separate.

    An Android phone cannot receive or send an iMessage, it's proprietary to iOS (Apple devices).

    When sending an iMessage the device establishes whether the receiving device can except an iMessage. If not then it reverts to an SMS. Example, send an iMessage to an Android phone and it reverts to an SMS. Or if you are in a group message with someone with an Android phone they will all revert to SMS.

    iPhone iMessage data sent > Internet via wifi OR cellular data > Apple server > Internet via wifi OR cellular data > iPhone iMessage received.

    If both parties are on wifi no cellular data is used. This is why a wifi only device like an iPad or Mac can receive and send iMessages. If both parties are on cellular only data is used and no SMS is used.

    Basically the less you use iMessage the less data you use. So if it's broken and iMessage isn't working it can only save data usage. Hence the Verizon's rep confusion on data usage.

    I didn't know about the Verizon iMessage issue because iMessage doesn't need Verizon. I use my iPad to continue sending iMessages and it's in no way tied to Verizon (wifi only).

    Plus since my company upgraded to iOS 7 the day after release our 70+ Verizon phones haven't had any iMessage issues at all. It's not uncommon for me to get 600 iMessages a day without a single hiccup.

    Don't you think a lot of Verizon customers before you would have complained over the last few months on here? Seems strange.
     
  14. mofunk macrumors 68000

    mofunk

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    #14
    @cynics I'm betting that it's happening and most people aren't aware of it. From what I read with the OP, he's concern because the Message service isn't working the way it suppose to work. When I got my iphone I played around with Message. I sent what was suppose to be an iMessage from my iPhone hoping that it would register on my iOS devices. What I got was an text message sent to my email account. I was on wi-fi and I was on iMessage mode and not text. :( Yes I was charged. After a few attempts and looking are Settings it was fixed. It sounds weird, but I have my outgoing messages linked now to my email address and not my cellphone number.


    I see that as a problem. iMessage not going through.
     
  15. redhawk87, Jan 17, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014

    redhawk87 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #15
    1. The issue you linked to was the exact issue I had back in ~november of 2012. The issue I am having now is completely different. I cannot explain the high data usage I experienced in December and neither can Apple or Verizon. That is not really what I am talking about, although that is an issue that I hope gets resolved in this fix. The high data usage could be related, or it could be a completely separate issue, but that issue lead me to find the iMessage/group text/VVM issue so I figured it was worth a mention.

    2. iMessage DOES work at home when I send an iMessage from my home computer to my iPhone. Its not like it is not working at all. The ONLY thing that is not working with iMessage at HOME is when a Verizon iPhone (this is an assumption based off the Apple store experience and since only verizon iPhones have sent me iMessages) sends me an iMessage. A couple weeks back, if I had data turned off and connected to my home wifi and someone sends me an iMessage, I SHOULD receive it as an iMessage. I did not receive it as an iMessage. I also did not receive it as an SMS. I frankly did not receive the message AT ALL. SMS does not go through my home router. If it was a router issue and NOT a verizon issue, I would of at least received it as an SMS. When I turned data on, I got the iMessage (as an iMessage, not SMS). Now, when I went to the Apple Store, the issue behaved a little differently. The Verizon iPhone did not send an iMessage when it should, but I DID receive an SMS. Before I was not receiving them as SMS. The only thing I had done between those two occurrences is reset my network settings.
     
  16. redhawk87 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #16
    Yes, that is correct.

    This is correct. An Android phone cannot receive iMessages.

    An Android phone can, however, be a gateway to the internet by turning on the wifi hotspot in settings. If an iPhone connects to an Android's wifi hotspot, all internet traffic is funneled through the Android phone. Even iMessages.

    One question: do any of those 70+ iPhones have data turned off? I consider my case a corner case that the majority of iPhone users will never face. Maybe I am wrong, but I think the majority of iPhone users do not turn their data off very often. If you never turn your data off, you will never run into this issue. And if the apple store genius' test is to be believed, you may turn off data, but you will not see this issue unless an iMessage comes from a verizon iPhone. If you receive it as an SMS, you may not even realize its an issue because the majority of people have unlimited SMS and the difference between blue and green may on certain messages may not register as a problem to everyone. Its one of those things you would just happen to see one day and think its odd. If, however, your like me and never receive the messages AT ALL, then you would immediately know there is a problem. Now, I do not know which of the two issues is more common: receiving iMessage as SMS or not receiving iMessages at all. I have experienced both.

    You say no one is complaining about it, but the Verizon rep told me there has been a HUGE uptick in iMessage TS cases ever since iOS 7 was released. That tells me right there that people have been complaining about it. It has been a big enough jump that they are telling people its a known issue and Apple is trying to fix it.

    Another thing: Why am I not getting GROUP TEXTS when data is off? There are phones out there that do not support group texting. What happens if one of those phones is included in a group text? it gets sent as an SMS instead. I do not even get an SMS.

    First off, I would hope Verizon would be able to send a Group Text through wifi if my data is off. At least that would be ideal. Second, if my data is off, I should at least receive it as an SMS. This is another reason why I think this may be an issue with Verizon's network.
     
  17. I7guy macrumors G5

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    #17
    I have verizon and my family have iPhones. I can turn off my data and use wifi to send and receive iMessage and group messages.

    Maybe you should activate another phone on your number and then reactivate the iPhone.
     
  18. redhawk87 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #18
    Is VVM working on your iPhone when celular is turned off and connected to wifi? Thanks for trying that out. It seems odd if your able to do it and I am not. Maybe this is only happening to a subset of people? Was the other iPhone connected to wifi? In order to truly test it, I think the phone sending the message should be on data only and the other phone should be on wifi only. I did a firmware reset and set my phone up as a brand new iPhone, so I don't think this is a software issue.

    The Verizon rep said the issue has to do with something added in iOS 7 that determines whether or not it can figure out the size of the file or not. If the file size can be determined, then it will work fine. If the file size cannot be determined, then you will have an issue. I did not really understand what he was talking about since my knowledge of packets and sending them across networks is minimal and he is just a TS guy. Maybe the majority of people's phones are able to figure out file sizes of packets and mine can't? Who knows...

    Oh and another thing I just thought of, there is a setting on iPhones that will only allow you to send iMessages to iPhones and never send an SMS. If someone had that feature on their phone and they sent me an iMessage, there is a possibility I never received any message because the iMessage failed and they did not try to resend as an SMS. That would explain the discrepancy between the iMessage issue I had at home and the iMessage issue I had at the apple store.

    ----------

    Also, the Verizon guy said I had to delete the message chain every time he tried something new. So, if you sent an iMessage to an iPhone and then they replied, that is a slightly different scenario from an iPhone sending you an iMessage for the first time. The other iPhone needs to start the message thread.
     
  19. Afbar1114 macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    I think verizon is having huge issues because i was not getting calls at all for the past few days that i know of and it may have been even more. The only reason how I know this is because a job I was waiting on tried to call me and could not reach me because my phone was not taking calls.
     
  20. MacrumoursUser macrumors 6502

    MacrumoursUser

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    #20
    I have noticed that i have used 600 MB out of my 1 GB for music. I have no idea how i was able, because all my music is on my iPhone and i'm not using radio or iCloud or any kind of streaming. I haven't purchased any music on iTunes too. So in few days i somehow managed to wate almost all my data.
     
  21. I7guy macrumors G5

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    #21
    I've read it could be iTunes match. Try turning it off as well as other things like automatic updates, background refresh.

    Also, in reply to VVM, I read that VVM requires cellular data and will not work on wifi.
     

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