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I hate Verizon. I signed up for a new phone last year with a $200 rebate promo. They never could honor that, and it was obviously purposely designed to be nearly impossible to claim it. I spent hours and hours with their support to get them to honor their active promotion, and I still never received the $200 after all that effort. I will never use Verizon again.
 
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Buy an unlocked phone. That’s what I did.

I do this too but oftentimes that means paying upfront in cash for the phone and not everyone likes or is able to do that. This lets me go month to month with one of the MVNOs. I tried Mint, Visible and am now on US Mobile. Don't like the service? Then it's so easy just to switch plans.
 
Let’s be honest: No legitimate customer has a problem with phones being locked to the carrier given unlocking is a consumer right nowadays. The dishonest people crying and screaming are buying phones form one carrier to take advantage of some amazing deal or using it as free distribution (instead of buying it from a store that will sell to them unlocked) and hence finding it difficult to unlock. No one is stopping these undesirables (because carriers make money from service, not phone sales) from going to the manufacturer and paying their MSRP that rarely goes down. But of course these are cheap, lazy, and dishonest people trying to cheat their way into a discount, what exactly did they expect?

And yes, carriers and phone locking (at least for some short period) enable those of us carrier customers to get good deals on phones, if only for some period on a time horizon that you have to look at to see when is it optimal to upgrade or change to a competitor.
Let's be honest: the US is the only country where this nonsense exists. The rest of the world doesn't lock their phones nor charge the ludicrous monthly fees US carriers impose.
Their strong arming even goes so far as to commission Apple to design a US-only variant of their iphones that omit the physical SIM tray, unlike the versions the rest of the world gets, specifically to limit a user's ability to pick their preferred carrier without several extra steps.
I bought an International variant iPhone 14 specifically for the ability to swing by a convenience store as soon as I land in whatever country I'm traveling to, and pick up a SIM card with unlimited talk and data for 20-30 bucks rather than stick with ATT and add another zero to that cost. Same for when I visit parts of the country where Verizon or T-Mo are king and ATT is zero bars. Not everyone shares my use-case, but they should have the same freedom I do.
Teleco's worried about retention should have to keep customers loyal the old fashioned way: by offering the best service for the lowest price rather than being forced to through multi-year long contracts.
 
Let’s be honest: ...
Sure let's be. Verizon agreed to the unlocking terms when they purchased the spectrum all those years ago. And now, when they want more money, they should just be able to change the terms so it's more convenient for them a while screwing over the consumer? If I, as a consumer, had a contract with Verizon for service and then wanted to cancel or change it for MY benefit, the customer service agent would laugh me off the call and demand that I continue on as CONTRACTED!
 
I always purchase unlocked iPhones and Apple has never charged me a fee, so I’ve no idea what you’re referring to… 🤷
I think it depends on the model. I’m pretty sure I paid it on my 14 Pro Max but apparently it’s not on the 16 Pro Max, but on the regular 16.

Edit: now that I think about it, I bought my 14 Pro Max locked to Verizon because at the time I didn’t care

Here’s an example. Of course, Apple sneakily words it as a discount instead of a fee.
IMG_2634.jpeg
 
I think it depends on the model. I’m pretty sure I paid it on my 14 Pro Max but apparently it’s not on the 16 Pro Max, but on the regular 16.

Edit: now that I think about it, I bought my 14 Pro Max locked to Verizon because at the time I didn’t care

Here’s an example. Of course, Apple sneakily words it as a discount instead of a fee.
View attachment 2513067
Odd, as I’m not seeing that myself…
IMG_2852.jpeg
 
While I mostly just buy my phones unlocked from Apple directly, I *somewhat* understand and sympathize with the carriers. They want to win over post-paid customers (as the majority tend to be relatively sticky), and to get them to switch, they offer them big discounted deals on the devices.

As part of that deal giving, they want to be able to ensure that these new subscribers that get a discounted phone, stay with them long enough that the "loss-leader" discount was worth it.

The way I understand it works: most US carriers make the discount (let's say they advertise a "free iPhone 16" which has a $800 MSRP), what they really do is give you $800 in "monthly device credits" over let's say 12 or 24 months (so $67/month or $33/month). So you don't pay anything up front, but you technically "owe" the carrier whatever the remaining device balance is, which reduces every month you stay with the carrier. So if you were to take the deal, but then leave after 3 months with the phone, assuming it was a 12month credit, you'd still have $800 - $99 = $701 owed, and thus you'd have to pay that out to keep the phone and get it unlocked. If it was already unlocked, the "fraud" is that the subscriber just keeps the phone, and tells the carrier to go pound sand for the amount owed. If it's a real person, they get a hit to their credit perhaps. But this is where potential fraudsters (maybe with fake or stolen SSNs) don't care and now have gotten a nearly free (and now unlocked) iPhone they can sell and make a tidy profit.

As a customer, would I prefer to get the discount, AND keep it unlocked? Of course. But I also like the option of getting these highly discounted phones from carriers as an incentive to switch. And I *understand*, given the way that scammers have taken advantage, why carriers use the locking to try to keep this from happening. For most people who would get the discounted phone, it wouldn't matter as they'd stay long enough with the carrier to have it unlocked automatically. Or if they do leave carriers for legitimate purposes, would understand why they need to pay off the remaining device balance, and could then get it unlocked if they want to.

If carriers couldn't do this locking, then realistically, they'll be forced to reduce the amount of device discounts they give to entice new subscribers. And then the "honest" folk (the vast majority who aren't affected by the lock) get worse deals.

I do get the potential inconvenience of not being able to get a separate SIM when traveling if your phone is still locked. However, I do think this is an edge case. For most of the big carriers, they have reasonable enough pricing for international roaming, that it's really only those who are traveling internationally for long periods of time, where the inability to get a local SIM really hurts.... So if you are in that edge case where it matters, definitely makes sense to just buy the phone outright / unlocked from Apple.
 
so you dont know anyone who travels is what I'm getting from this
Then you buy an unlocked phone to begin with and pay more for it. Getting a “free” phone is all about locking the user into a contract that allows the carrier to recover the cost of the phone they gave you. So buy the unlocked phone outright and then select a non-contract option from the carrier of your choice.

As has been pointed out carriers lose millions of dollars from customers playing games with carrier promotions.
 
i miss the days of the carriers subsidizing the price of the phone for a 2 year lock/agreement. you could literally own an iphone for 200 bucks outright (not the leasing/financing gimmicks of today) and sell it 2 years later unlocked secondhand for more than that.
 
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I hate Verizon. I signed up for a new phone last year with a $200 rebate promo. They never could honor that, and it was obviously purposely designed to be nearly impossible to claim it. I spent hours and hours with their support to get them to honor their active promotion, and I still never received the $200 after all that effort. I will never use Verizon again.
blah, blah, blah. Everybody has sob stories about every carrier in existence. People also have sob stories about how they were mistreated by hospitals, doctors, mechanics, insurance salesmen, ministers, priests, teachers, bosses, and and and on. Most brought it on themselves.
 
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One day, this country’s ongoing and complete and utter obsession with cell phones is going to seem silly. One day.
 
And don't get me started to talk about the stupid eSIM.
Family member went overseas to travel and stayed on airplane mode the whole time.
Purchased a local eSIM to switch over. As soon as the phone get out of airplane mode to switch to the local eSIM, Verizon decided to charge us $12 for "Travel Pass" a day.
 
I think it depends on the model. I’m pretty sure I paid it on my 14 Pro Max but apparently it’s not on the 16 Pro Max, but on the regular 16.

Edit: now that I think about it, I bought my 14 Pro Max locked to Verizon because at the time I didn’t care

Here’s an example. Of course, Apple sneakily words it as a discount instead of a fee.
View attachment 2513067
My 15PM purchased from Apple unlocked didn't have any fee. As a matter of fact, Verizon didn't charge me an activation fee either going this route..
 
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As has been pointed out carriers lose millions of dollars from customers playing games with carrier promotions.
So here’s the thing I don’t understand: you are totally fine with Verizon requesting to change the terms of a deal they agreed to to remove all their concessions but without losing any of the benefits, but you hate the idea of customers who are legally following all the terms of their deals make out by using the promotions the carriers are running*?

I dont get it

*promotions btw that they have no requirement to do, they are choosing to make the offers, and they control the terms
 
My 15PM purchased from Apple unlocked didn't have any fee. As a matter of fact, Verizon didn't charge me an activation fee either going this route..
Wow. I paid an activation fee on my 14 Pro Max, but it was maybe $25. I don’t remember exactly, but I felt it wasn’t worth stressing to argue with them about it. It was annoying enough to feel like I got ripped off, but not annoying enough to cause myself further stress.

Maybe they stopped doing the fee by the time you upgraded or it could be they treat accounts differently? My account was never in default or anything, but I’ve only been with them at the time for a few years.
 
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