viable alternative for 13" quality laptop <€900 ??

[stefan1975]

What do you do that the 13" MBP wouldn't handle?

well i heard that at least with running VMWARE the C2D P8600 can stutter.

Future proofing?-Look back at the last 5 years are realize there's no such thing.

i know, but i plan/need to use it for around 5 years. By then the P8600 will be 8 years old. That would be like running on a PIII now ... i would expect the i5 to at least have a little edge over that.

Sony Z? - LOL, people really need to try a Sony Z for a week, and a 13" MBP for a week before any of their comments are credible.

well it is way out of my budget anyway.....so it's not on the shortlist anymore.

HP Envy? - Doesn't the two letters "HP" go hand in hand with low quality and high failure rate?

well i hear good -mac like-things about the envy quality ... but at roughly €1650 it also is out of my budget and i'd prefer a MBP15 for that amount of money

My recommendation, you've got 14 days on a 13" MBP. Try it, don't read or listen to all the crap about it being C2D ... under powered ... blah blah blah.

thanks for the tip. i am not a spec chaser ... but there is almost a 0% chance i am buying a P8600 for $1450 (€1150). In that case i am going to wait for the early 2011 refresh.

You won't find a notebook with a better screen

i agree. even though it isnt alas an IPS panel ... it still looks really vibrant.

 

[HLdan]

Stefan, Apple doesn't sell specs, they sell "The Experience", period! You can buy the hottest PC notebook with specs that would make the geekiest person cry of joy and the experience will still be the Windows experience. It's not that W7 is so horrible, (I'm no fan of it though) but when you're putting together a notebook made by HP, SONY, DELL or whoever else along with an OS that is made by separate company, Microsoft in this case, the experience will not be the same as buying a Mac. Apple makes both the computer and the OS so everything is tightly integrated. Apple handles all the driver issues and sends them right to your Mac via software update.
What good are specs if the experience is poor?

My neighbor just bought a W7 HP notebook and after the first day of owning it he asked me to come fix it. The camera software started acting up, I.E. was stuttering, the computer started slowing down. I spent 3 hours "fixing" it and downloded Firefox and 3 days later his camera software stopped working again. This is what I mean by "The Experience".

Snow Leopard requires less resources than Windows 7 so if you're worried about running VMWARE Fusion on a Core 2 duo, don't. The processor isn't the main component to running a virtual machine, ram is what you need.
The i5 won't last much better than the current Core 2 duo. If Apple was going to put an i5 in the 13" MBP it would probably be the 2.4Ghz. I wouldn't worry about it, just get the 13"MBP and the 13" white Macbook is a great buy as well.
One more thing to note, the Apple notebooks have much better screens than most sub $1000 U.S PC notebooks. Most PC notebooks in this price have washed out screens, trust me on this, check it out, if anything the screen should be a concern to you since you have to stare at it all day, not the processor.

 

[entatlrg]

My '09 and '10 13" MBP flies through Win7, no stutter whatsoever. (I do technical design work, so I'm using the computer).

Five years for any laptop is stretching it nowadays. They're not $3,000 anymore where you're really thinking about future proofing and if you look back how many years did that $3,000 buy most most people? Answer - 2 maybe 3 years.

In 5 years i5, C2D will be distant thoughts ... by then our 256ssd iPads will do everything you can imagine ... infrared tactile keyboards, wireless connect to ACD's and any other device ...

Yes, you are a spec chaser, you repeated that in your last post.

I'm not slamming you, my point is it's really too bad to see posts like this from people are misinformed or don't know for whatever reason.

Think about the next 2-3 years with your laptop, about important things, screen, keyboard, OS.

Lastly, HP Envy and the word quality do no belong in the same sentence. Please go look/test one and then do the same with any MacBook Pro ... HP should be embarrassed, a cheap knock off imo. It's a wild misleading world over in the Windows laptop world, I'm so glad I'm out of it....

Seriously, buy yourself a MacBook or 13" MBP and never look back. That's solid advice.

 

[stefan1975]

well currently my only two pc's are an atom eee and a dell optiplex gx270 P4. so that's not top of the line spec admiring behaviour. i don't make kazillions of dollars so when i do buy a new luxury item it has to have some baseline future-proofness.

i work in IT so i know how fast things go. and i wouldnt consider crappy stuff anyway. the package is important too, so a dell alienware is out of the question as are b-brand windows laptops.

in my days as a windows/linux sysadmin we had hundreds of dell precision laptops and the business line of HP. both were actually pretty decent. Just the "home and SMB" models sucked bullocks.

right now i use both windows7, fedora13 and OSX at work and of the three i prefer OSX the best plus the way it interacts with the apple designed hardware. That's why i won't get a hackingtosh.

i would hardly call myself misinformed (rather too welll informed). i would rather think that people who just run to the applestore and get a MBP blindly are. perhaps they are just the lucky smart ones, but i for one really want/need to research my purchases thoroughly. The misses also has to at least "understand" why in gods name i spend so much money on a toy. and 2 years with a €1500 (15") investment wouldnt really go well with i am sure

but of course to each his own. i am sure there are many happy MBP13 owners and all the more praise to them. i am glad they can enjoy their purchase and have it do all they would ever need to or expect to, i for one would like to as well but wouldnt want to regret my purchase, hence my search for alternatives, step up to the MBP15 or wait until 2011. i would buy it through a schools it department who pay for it up front, so i can't test it for 14 days and bring it back to the apple store.

I have secret hopes for a MBA13 update at WWDC, so i might hang on until then at least or maybe i'll get an ipad to replace my eee while i wait for the MBP2011.

thanks for the good insights though and sorry for what seems like a way too lenghty post reading back.....

 

[stefan1975]

So anyone have any experience with the new AMD Neo offerings?
I came accross this new Dell 13" laptop and it looks pretty decent, besides it's just EUR600.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/17/inspiron-m301z-dells-first-laptop-to-take-on-amds-new-dual-co/

the only thing is that it's got a AMD Turion II Neo K625 (dual core) processor and i must say i have no clue where to place it in the landscape of CPU's. Nor found reviews or benchmarks. Is it comparable to a C2D-ULV or i5-ULV?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/12/amd-promises-better-battery-life-and-thermals-with-new-neo-cpus/

so that leaves the shortlist to:

MBP13 2011
MBP15 2010
Asus U30 series
Dell 13" not sure which model yet

 

[macjunk(ie)]

you sure you don't wanna include the new HP models....they look pretty nice.
The pavilions, envy sure look nice...(since you are considering Windows 7)

 

[stefan1975]

well i wanted to include the HP Envy 14 since it looks awesome, however HP announced it for EUR 1500 here for the base model. At that price i prefer a MBP15 even.

just not sure about the Dell. it seems nice and *really* cheap, but i have always been more of an intel guy.

 

[stefan1975]

well after doing some more research and contemplating i have actually managed making the right choice (for me) more difficult.

after some hands-on testing at various stores, some carrying both macs and pc's i noticed that i really can't be bothered with a glass glossy screen, where a mac glossy is even worse then a pc glossy (it seems even "more" glossy for some reason). also youtube videos comparing glossy to matte made me convinced i would really regret getting a mirror screen.

so even if the MBP13 had received a pro-worthy upgrade i still couldn't have bought it because of the glossy only screen.

that leaves me at either upgrading to the base MBP15 HR AG, or find a matte pc alternative. I still prefer 13" 1366x or 1400x something, but have upped my limit to 14" (or even the MBP15 ... although that is stretching both my budget and my couch-surfing-capabilities).

i believe i can empty the list because of this, and currently not sure which alternatives offer a high(er) res 13-14" matte screen.

*sigh*

 

[stefan1975]

So i just found a new contender for my list. Guess i will cancel my MBP15 HR AG order on monday until i see what this is:

http://mobile.desinformado.com/index.php/2010/06/19/asus-launches-the-u35-and-u45-notebooks/

it packs all the things everybody here says cannot be put in the MBP13 for various reasons:

asus u35/u45
- full i5-450
- dedicated nvidia and intel GPU with optimus
- 11,5 hour battery due to SHE (never heard of it?!)
- brushed aluminium body
- <1inch
- lightweight
- around EUR900
- release june

so it *is* possible to stick all that in a 13" aluminium body and keep costs below a grand (as compared to vaio Z) or claim it just won't fit (ars/steve on the MBP13) and yet keep battery excellent when using an i5.

and it will probably also fit my crumpler 13" sleeve i was going to throw out for getting the MB15 instead

 

[geox]

Toshiba R700

+ Core i3 350 m at $1000
+ 13.3" Matte screen
+ backlit keys
+ 8 Hrs battery Life*
+ 3.2 lbs with 6 cell battery

- Intel gfx

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/pdet.to?poid=478873

 

[stefan1975]

Toshiba R700

seems nice indeed. they also have a consumer version and i5 / i7 options. Seems like Apple is really getting passed by on the slim-n-light segment. I think i'd prefer both the toshiba R630 and the Asus U35 over the MBP13.

http://www.techradar.com/news/mobile-computing/laptops/hands-on-toshiba-satellite-r630-review-697651

just don't know much yet about the gfx on the R630 and how the nvidia 310 dedicated compares to the 320M on shared RAM in the MBP13.

they'll have to do something really good for the late 2010 refresh to get back on top it seems, and all signs are that they'll just go with a tiny speed bumb yet again.

and best of all .... the screen is MATTE (!) at 13.3", finally someone who gets it. and higher res too. the only downside it that it's 16x9 ... but can't have everything

[EDIT] seems like the toshiba's use *only* the integrated intel gfx on the core iX chip, that's unfortunate because everyone knows the graphics on the arrandale suck. Guess it's off the list then, with just the MBP15 and the AsusU35 being on it currently

 

[mbpjohnson]

I say forget the specs and go take a serious look at the 13, spend some time playing with it. I was worried about all the specs and bought a I 7 17 inch a month ago. I don't play games, mostly email, web surfing, movies, photos and some video. Well a month later I need something a bit smaller and more portable to travel with so picked up a 13 base model. Guess what for general use I don't notice any speed difference. It opens and closes programs and photos just as fast as the I 7. I don' t find this looks bad next to the hi-rez anti glare screen in fact I like the font size on the 13 much better. Your needs may be different but I found the 13 really is a very nice little computer. Take a hard look at it, and try it, it may be all you need.

Phil

 

[stefan1975]

i did look seriously at the MBP13. it is the model i have been planning to buy for over 6 months now. I even already have a sleeve, office and mouse lying around waiting for it. I am also sure that for general safari use the MBP13 is just fine.

I am won't be getting it though. I cannot justify the €1150 for the P8600, 1280res, glossy screen, 5400rpm drive. It is in no way a "pro" machine.

13" is my ideal size, i prefer size, battery life and power even over the OS. So that is why i am currently looking at both the MBP15 HR-AG for specs and 13" windows laptops and am undecided.

the things that are on the top of my list:
- i5
- real dedicated non shared DDR GPU
- matte(ish) screen (even the white MB is less of a mirror)
- >=1366res
- battery
- chicklet backlit keyboard

the asus u35 seems to have most of this going for it, as does the MBP15. so now it's a choice between my preferred 13" size or a MBP at a bigger size (and giving away the brand new crumpler sleeve).

 

[macjunk(ie)]

hmmm...if it is okay by you to switch to Windows...then don't even look at the MBP 15...it is too expensive for what you get.

The Asus is a nice machine (spec wise) but I have not heard great things about the screen. Plus I am pretty sure the 10 hour battery life is via the integrated graphics.

Toshiba machines are (were?) awesome! I had a satellite model few years ago and the build quality was amazing. Plus the model you are referring to comes with 3 year limited warranty....that's a good deal.

I also hear that Dell is in the process of redesigning their 13" XPS models. That might change the game a bit....

 

[stefan1975]

hmmm...if it is okay by you to switch to Windows...then don't even look at the MBP 15...it is too expensive for what you get.

well i probably wouldn't be running Win7 on it (for long) but reinstall the wole shebang with fedora 13 x64 KDE4.4. I have been an linux user since '98 and one of my main reasons for switching to Mac is having the power and stability of a *NIX combined with the apps i miss from M$ (office, CS)

The Asus is a nice machine (spec wise) but I have not heard great things about the screen. Plus I am pretty sure the 10 hour battery life is via the integrated graphics.

well the MBP also runs for 8-9 hours on just the integrated GPU, besides they claim 11,5 hours so if it runs for 8 hours in practice (66%) i would already be really happy.

Toshiba machines are (were?) awesome! I had a satellite model few years ago and the build quality was amazing. Plus the model you are referring to comes with 3 year limited warranty....that's a good deal.

3 year warranty without paying for toshiba care sounds great yes. just a bummer that it lacks a videcard more decent then the arrandale intergrated T#@^#$#$%

I also hear that Dell is in the process of redesigning their 13" XPS models. That might change the game a bit....

that sounds awesome. the XPS16 is among the greatest laptops around, just *way* too big for me.

the MBP15 is indeed way too expensive for just the hardware. i'm very tempted though....i was out to buy a 13" MBP or 13" laptop and yet i am even considering upping to the MBP15 just for the sake of it.