video card to transition from mac pro 1.1 to new one

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by darshie76, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. darshie76 macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    #1
    Hi all

    at the moment i have a mac pro 1.1 with an ATI 3800 (don't recall if is the 3850 or 3870), and was planning to upgrade it.

    I've researched a bit and seems that the best choice would be the 5870 as upgrade for the old 1.1; now I have 2 questions:

    1) how faster is the 5870 under windows and mac, compared to the 3800?

    2) I may spend a bit more money to get a better card, since I am planning to upgrade to a newer mac pro (either 3.1 or 4.1); so in that case which card would you suggest me, to get something that I can use reliably also on the newer mac pro, but that works also on the 1.1 ?

    I am aware of course of the limitation of the bus PCI on the 1.1, so I don't expect that the card will use the full power, but if i can spend 100 or 200 dollars more and get a faster card, that may be perfect for the new mac pro I would consider that, instead than buying the 5870 and then have to spend more money in a year or so to upgrade the video card again.

    Thanks a lot!!!
     
  2. BigJohno macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Location:
    San Francisco
    #2
    6870. Works out of the box. It's a fraction of the price as a 5870.
     
  3. darshie76 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    #3
    Thanks for the reply.

    I was not able to find any 6870 for mac; the only 2 sold are 5870 and 5770.

    Are you talking about getting a pc card and flash it? I would rather just buy a mac card instead; saving money is not an issue; I use the computer to work so for me the main thing is reliability.

    the site says that 5870 is 75% faster than 5770; if it works on my mac and is able to use 2 DVI monitor (non Apple; one is an LG and the other a Samsung) I am pretty much set for the 5870, so when I get my new mac pro I can just swap the card and I am done
     
  4. flatfoot macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    #4
    Yes, he was talking about a PC card, but you wouldn't even have to flash it.

    If money is not an issue, however, and you want absolute compatibility, you should go with the Apple 5870, which is way faster than the 5770. Another upside is that the 5870 is faster than the 6870. ;)

    EDIT: ...and yes, it will drive your two DVI displays.
     
  5. CaptainChunk macrumors 68020

    CaptainChunk

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    #5
    But it's also worth noting that with the Apple 5870, you'll need a MDP to DVI adapter to drive a second DVI display. The card has 1x DVI and 2x MDP.
     
  6. ActionableMango macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    #6
    The 5870 costs twice as much as the 5770 and is not much faster when used in a Mac Pro 1.1, at least according to specific benchmarks by barefeats:

    http://www.barefeats.com/wst10g5.html
     
  7. derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    #7
    Portal and SmallLUX make a difference. The rest really are SW bound having little to do with the HW. Like Apple's OpenGL Motion and Color and the rest. It's their SW and drivers that is the limiting factor. Try some DirectX tests or Win OpenGL on same HW vs. 5770. 5870 will be roughly twice as fast even on the 1,1.
     
  8. darshie76 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    #8
    So 5870 it is :) found one used for less than 350...good deal!

    Thanks Captain; I will get an adapter then; since both my monitors has either DVI, VGA15 or HDMI, and the card has only 1 DVI and 2 mdp

    Actionable; I do not expect to see great performances on the 1,1; due the limitations of the bus that is not 64 bit, nor the PCIe is a 2.0; so it is like to run with an SS engine crippled at 3000 rpm :)

    My idea is to move to a newer mac pro when I have enough money (they are frikkin expensive, but worth every penny! my 1,1 is still running strong while my pc was threw away years ago because obsolete); so at that point the difference should be pretty noticeable especially on OGL apps or other apps that uses core stuff and the other magic tricks that Apple put in their software :)

    But mainly the card is to play games on windows when I boot in bootcamp :)

    Thanks everyone for your valuable comments!
     
  9. fifthmanstandin macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    #9
    Wait. Hold the phone. You can buy a 6870 and out of the box pop it in??????

    Please do tell.
     
  10. Neodym macrumors 65816

    Neodym

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2002
    #10
    Required: OSX 10.6.8 or newer.
    Drawbacks (Mitigation):
    No OSX DVD player, no Steam games (install ATY_Init.kext)
    No boot screen (MP 1,1/2,1: use secondary card for boot menu if needed. MP 3,1 or later: Same as before plus option: Flash card with Mac-Rom).
     
  11. darshie76 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    #11
    5870 is working fine; sadly on pc side the drivers are pure garbage....STO does not work unless you use 12.1; many other games just crash if you use the old drivers....and there is no way to turn on anti aliasing otherwise it crash continuously.

    Other than that, when it works is blazing fast, and play Skyrim on it with max details is an experience.

    I would not buy a pc card and mod it honestly; this one (the original Apple branded) is safer and does almost everything right!
     
  12. derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    #12
    Why on earth are you running old drivers? Just download and install Catalyst 12.4 or whatever is the most recent or beta or whatever you want. No crashing, no issues at all.
     
  13. darshie76 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    #13
    Because STO has problems with new drivers; same for other games...12.3 was totally bogus and when I installed 12.4 the result was that different games now would not work.

    AS rule of thumb, never update the drivers to the latest version on windows...the old ones works sometimes much better because they are more stable, compared to the new ones that has only received a brief testing in a lab.
     
  14. Arkados macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
    #14

    Where did you buy the card? I'm having a hard time finding one that doesnt look janky.
     
  15. darshie76 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    #15
    Just go to the Apple store and order it; got mine after 3 days and was perfect.
     
  16. derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    #16
    I have no problems on any games at all. No issues on any driver since 2010 purchase and changed every 2-3 months depending on fixes and frame boosts. Sorry you are having issues. Most likely based on the fact that you are running new games on old drivers that have since had bug fixes for the games in question. I am using jan 17 beta Catalyst 8.95. Best frames and stability so far. I test drivers all the time but thanks for the "as a rule of thumb" nonsense. Why can't people just communicate? Why do they think they need to drop knowledge they don't have?
    Use this and pick some newer drivers or sit back and enjoy the instability.
    http://benchmark3d.com/benchmarks
     
  17. darshie76, Apr 7, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012

    darshie76 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    #17
    Well, you are running on 8.95 while the latest one are 12.3? You are more than a year behind :)
    (of course you will not get the joke)

    On what version of Mac are you running the card? Do you have the original Apple version or a modded pc version? Which OS are you running? Before saying "it works for me, so it must work" you should ask yourself if there is any other factor that may affect the performance of a video card.

    And good to know that you know everything....I've spent the past 14 years fixing and working on computers; I've worked for Nvidia on video drivers; I am sure that you know more than me....sorry for dropping incorrect information.

    Now if you would excuse me, I go back to more important things, feel free to spread the seeds of your knowledge; many members here are in need of correct info, and you are the right person to do so.
     
  18. derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    #18
    Why so defensive? I never said you gave incorrect info. Just that you were full of yourself doing so. And you are still doing it:

    "On what version of Mac are you running the card? Do you have the original Apple version or a modded pc version? Which OS are you running? Before saying "it works for me, so it must work" you should ask yourself if there is any other factor that may affect the performance of a video card."

    Totally enamored at your own ability to grasp (and then distribute) common sense. I was really only trying to help out. You were having issues with your setup. I do not have those issues. What is it about your Mac and can you possibly benefit from doing things slightly different?

    OS 10.6.8 all patched.
    Mac Pro 5,1 12GB, 6-core.
    5870 Apple stock - no flash
    Win 7 SP1 Professional - All patched.
    No boot camp. No need if you are not partitioning.
     
  19. darshie76 thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    #19
    Being defensive? Maybe you didn't realized the fact that you were attacking, so I guess it is just how you are.

    If you were trying to help you would do like the others, not coming out with a "you run old drivers, how come? it works just fine"...that seriously didn't add anything to the original discussion...if this is how you help I can imagine what happens when you don't want to help; that's all.

    Now if you would read your sentence: "You were having issues with your setup. I do not have those issues. What is it about your Mac and can you possibly benefit from doing things slightly different? "; with all your knowledge you should know what is the difference between a mac 1.1 (what I have, it is in the first post) and a mac 5.1 (what you have, a machine that was tested and certified compatible 100% with the 5870 branded Apple). I am amazed at your incredible cognitive skills, you could be perfect as moral support, due to your innate ability to empathize with others; kudos to you.

    Thanks for your help; I now know that the mac pro 5.1 works perfectly fine with the latest ATI drivers under windows 7 (not sure if 32 or 64 bit, but probably the latter, since you have a 64 bit processor).

    I have a mac 1.1...different motherboard, different northbridge and southbridge, different processor, 32 bit instead of 64 bit EFI; PCIexpress 1.1......what can possibly be different from your working config? :)

    Have a nice day and thanks for the help.
     
  20. fifthmanstandin macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    #20
    Define no dvd player? Do you mean the dvd drive will not read movies?

    No boot screen, does this mean I won't be able to boot into windows bootcamp from the 'hold alt at start noise to select drive' method. Or is a way around that?

    I've got a 2009 mac pro.

    And how would I go about doing this?
     
  21. flatfoot macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    #21
    The DVD Player application won't work.

    @No boot screen: It won't be displayed. If you know which buttons to press to select the drive you want to boot from, you can still do that blindly.
     
  22. derbothaus, Apr 8, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012

    derbothaus macrumors 601

    derbothaus

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    #22
    0
     
  23. DanCT macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    #23
    Could you point me to an up to date version of ATY_init.kext that can make my 6870's HDMI ports work, by any chance?
    I will love you forever if you do :)
     
  24. flatfoot macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    #24
    I'm afraid I can't help you; no idea about that stuff.
    Well, I'm already married anyway... :)

    I'm sure somebody else will be able to help you out.
     
  25. MacVidCards Suspended

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2008
    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    #25
    If you are on a 3,1 or later, better off to flash with EFI.

    If on a 1,1 or 2,1 then you just need to make sure ATY_Init is Lion version.

    He hasn't changed much in it, not sure why everyone thinks there are multiple versions. If you have DVI displays plugged in, HDMI may not work, or maybe it won't work in your machine.

    The cards function in 1,1 and 2,1 but they work much better once flashed and in a 3,1 or later.
     

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