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northernmunky

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 19, 2007
825
288
London, Taipei
I'm currently working on an infographic in an attempt to demystify ad simplify the confusing world of codecs. I work for a TV station, and I run the department responsible for assets and format cross conversions.

I want to bring my info graphic to the masses to see if anyone with similar or greater knowledge or more knowledge than me makes sense of this and can give suggestions for improvement.

I'm well aware that I have left some things out and have deliberately missed out some information, generally for the efforts of preventing confusion. I'm aiming this at people who have only scratched the surface of codec/wrapper land.

Please also note that this is aimed entirely at my specific post production facility the PAL international market using Final Cut Pro, so North America should ignore any mention of frame rates.

Looking forward to hearing what fellow editors/engineers think.

Cheers!

http://macguyscreencasts.com/jamesfanthorpe/FinalCutProCodec%20InfographicPDF.pdf

Page-01.jpeg
Page-02.jpeg
Page-03.jpeg
 
Last edited:

KeithPratt

macrumors 6502a
Mar 6, 2007
804
3
Few things I noticed:

  • MP4 is missing from list of containers.

  • Most of the listed editing codecs are neither based on MPEG-2 nor are Long-GOP.

    The following are intraframe:
    DV
    DVCam
    DVCPro
    DVCProHD
    MPEG IMX
    ProRes
    Avid DNxHD

    MXF shouldn't be on the list.

  • Typos:
    H.254
    1980x1080
    XDCam 422 Timebase?
 

TheStrudel

macrumors 65816
Jan 5, 2008
1,134
1
This may be a matter of style, but I don't think that's a good font for an infographic. Too copperplatey. You want something a little more "standard" looking or easier on the eyes, since you're not trying to be edgy, just plain informative.
 

MisterMe

macrumors G4
Jul 17, 2002
10,709
69
USA
You are misrepresenting at least some of your links. I have personally never heard of a problem with MPEGStreamclip. You have posted links to outside forums which deal with DVD RIPping and file conversion. Contrary to your assertion, the posts from people who know what they are doing recommend MPEGStreamclip.
 

AppLCII

macrumors member
Jul 12, 2011
44
0
Keep this going. This could be a very useful tool when finished. Right now it's still a bit confusing. Think about having 1 or 2 pages in landscape orientation just to get the point across better.
 

cgbier

macrumors 6502a
Jun 6, 2011
933
2
... and, please, change the font. It's a pain to read.

Great job though.
 

cgbier

macrumors 6502a
Jun 6, 2011
933
2
You are misrepresenting at least some of your links. I have personally never heard of a problem with MPEGStreamclip. You have posted links to outside forums which deal with DVD RIPping and file conversion. Contrary to your assertion, the posts from people who know what they are doing recommend MPEGStreamclip.
I have some issues with it when I get AVIs on my desk. The synch is, for whatever reason, in 99% of all cases 7 frames off. Knowing this, I can work around this.
However, I still recommend MPEG Streamclip as the best invention since sliced cheese.
 

northernmunky

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 19, 2007
825
288
London, Taipei
However, I still recommend MPEG Streamclip as the best invention since sliced cheese.

Agreed, I use MPEGstreamclip every day in our broadcast environment, it's the only tool we use and I have been using it longer than I can remember and have never had a problem with it.

One of our biggest uses for it is that in our programmes we use a lot of clips that have come from hundreds of various different sources (usually youtube rips) and our producers want to use them in edit. To make it easy for our staff, we convert them all to ProRes/25fps to prevent sync issues.

I can imagine the NTSC people having some issues with a 29.97fps framerate, could that be part of the reason? We sometimes receive programmes in 29.97 from the states which we cross-convert to PAL. Occasionally we encounter sync issues which we correct by changing the speed of the audio track.
 

mBox

macrumors 68020
Jun 26, 2002
2,356
83
Finally!

Finally something positive to read in MacRumors ;)
Good job keep it up.
Its helpful and I when its done, were all going to benefit from your work :)
 

martinX

macrumors 6502a
Aug 11, 2009
928
162
Australia
I hate to be negative...
I found it confusing. I'm very much an up-down, left-right kind of guy and I wasn't sure what to follow. To me it seems part infographic, part flowchart and I didn't feel I was being taken from A to B to C and so on.

For me, I'd like to start at "Capture" (i.e. in-camera capture codec) move to "Editing" and then "Delivery". And no sideways text. And "CoDecs" is plural, not possessive.
 

careypo

macrumors member
Oct 15, 2011
71
0
Agreed, I use MPEGstreamclip every day in our broadcast environment, it's the only tool we use and I have been using it longer than I can remember and have never had a problem with it.

One of our biggest uses for it is that in our programmes we use a lot of clips that have come from hundreds of various different sources (usually youtube rips) and our producers want to use them in edit. To make it easy for our staff, we convert them all to ProRes/25fps to prevent sync issues.

I can imagine the NTSC people having some issues with a 29.97fps framerate, could that be part of the reason? We sometimes receive programmes in 29.97 from the states which we cross-convert to PAL. Occasionally we encounter sync issues which we correct by changing the speed of the audio track.

You are lucky. If your DVD has a bad spot on it, MPEGStreamclip will hang. Most people have audio sync problems with MPEGStreamclip when they set in and out points on a DVD. In order to achieve audio sync, MPEGStreamclip frequently drops frames. That may be why you've never seen the audio sync problems.
 

northernmunky

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 19, 2007
825
288
London, Taipei
I hate to be negative...
I found it confusing. I'm very much an up-down, left-right kind of guy and I wasn't sure what to follow. To me it seems part infographic, part flowchart and I didn't feel I was being taken from A to B to C and so on.

For me, I'd like to start at "Capture" (i.e. in-camera capture codec) move to "Editing" and then "Delivery". And no sideways text. And "CoDecs" is plural, not possessive.

Thanks, but it's not meant to take people through the post production process, I purely want to make people understand that taking your Flip Camera footage or youtube rips, dropping them onto an FCP timeline and expect to be able to edit it properly without doing some form of transcode, doesn't work.

I don't want to include too much information that will create the very confusion I'm trying to eliminate. I need to be as simplified as possible.
 

KeithPratt

macrumors 6502a
Mar 6, 2007
804
3
Most people have audio sync problems with MPEGStreamclip when they set in and out points on a DVD.

Do you mean to say "People who have audio sync problems with MPEG Streamclip mostly have them when setting in and out points on a DVD"? If you mean what you wrote I'd like to see some substantial evidence to back it up.

In order to achieve audio sync, MPEGStreamclip frequently drops frames.

Do you mean that where MPEG Streamclip trims to is not the exact frame you marked as the in point? That's not what most people think of as "dropped frames", and in the Preferences there's a checkbox 'Preserve GOPs at In/Out'.

MPEG Streamclip isn't perfect, but you seem ceaseless in giving it a hard time.
 

martinX

macrumors 6502a
Aug 11, 2009
928
162
Australia
I purely want to make people understand that taking your Flip Camera footage or youtube rips, dropping them onto an FCP timeline and expect to be able to edit it properly without doing some form of transcode, doesn't work.
Yeah, I didn't really get that from it either, but it could just be me.:confused:
 

jtara

macrumors 68020
Mar 23, 2009
2,008
536
I purely want to make people understand that taking your Flip Camera footage or youtube rips, dropping them onto an FCP timeline and expect to be able to edit it properly without doing some form of transcode, doesn't work.

Yeah, I didn't really get that from it either, but it could just be me.:confused:

Oh, I got that RIGHT AWAY. Just from the complexity of the infographic.

That's not a dig at the infographic. It's the reality of the situation.

It does effectively get across the idea that "it's complicated". ;)
 

rhkamra

macrumors member
Nov 29, 2007
31
0
California
Very nice! I would love to hand this out to the university students in the film department I support, but we are NTSC.
 

nateo200

macrumors 68030
Feb 4, 2009
2,906
42
Upstate NY
Thanks, but it's not meant to take people through the post production process, I purely want to make people understand that taking your Flip Camera footage or youtube rips, dropping them onto an FCP timeline and expect to be able to edit it properly without doing some form of transcode, doesn't work.

I don't want to include too much information that will create the very confusion I'm trying to eliminate. I need to be as simplified as possible.

I totally love the idea of the chart and am glad to see one...but don't you think the bold is a little bit obvious? I mean I think we all have tried this only to see how disastrous it is on our CPU and RAM not to mention how frustratingly slow it is (though I'm referring to FCP X which has background rendering).
 

smokescreen76

macrumors member
Sep 10, 2010
64
0
Very nice. We have things like this all over the walls in our machine room. We also have spreadsheets pinned to the walls for things like transcode times, file sizes for different codecs and how long it takes to transfer files over different connections (And no, I'm not sharing... except in exchange for money or favours).

I would mention that BluRay can be Mpeg2 as well as h.264. In fact I prefer Mpeg2 over h.264 as it is less compressed - I only use h.264 for discs with a duration of over 1 hour.

It's interesting to see your reliance on HDV and XDCAM. In my opinion they are the work of the devil and are not allowed near a timeline. I would prefer to spend hours transcoding than use either of these formats on one of my machines (I've had bad experiences in the past).
 

Da Citizen

macrumors newbie
Sep 21, 2011
28
0
Leeds, UK
I hate to be negative...
I found it confusing. I'm very much an up-down, left-right kind of guy and I wasn't sure what to follow. To me it seems part infographic, part flowchart and I didn't feel I was being taken from A to B to C and so on.

For me, I'd like to start at "Capture" (i.e. in-camera capture codec) move to "Editing" and then "Delivery". And no sideways text. And "CoDecs" is plural, not possessive.

Very good idea, to mirror workflow.

+1 from me.

Im new to FCP and will be editing HD video from a variety of sources (inc .m2ts files, didnt see those in there, did i?)
 
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