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AppZ.Zero

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 29, 2021
95
194
Hello everyone,

i am looking for an iMovie alternative right now. After Creating 4 holiday-movies with imovie and exporting the first one i noticed, that iMovie doesnt support 4k 60 fps on Macs. Since all my footage is recorded in 4k 60 fps i dont want to loose any quality here. So i am looking for an alternative.

I got some requirements:
- Access to my Pictures Library
- Easy to use or at least easy to learn
- export to 4k 60 fps

Do you guys have any recommendation for me? I am willing to pay money if really neccesssary.
 

PeteBurgh

macrumors 6502
Jun 25, 2014
281
622
I don't know that I would describe Final Cut Pro as 'easy to use', but it's not that steep a learning curve if you're doing fairly simple stuff like trimming and splicing together clips, doing titles, tidying up the audio, etc.

It's a 90 day free trial, and you can import your iMovie projects and pick up where you left off.
 
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AppZ.Zero

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 29, 2021
95
194
@PeteBurgh

THanks for your reply. There are two reasons why Final Cut Pro sucks for this usecase:

1. No direct access to photos library. All videos/photos i want to import will be copied to a new library -> data-garbage
2. iMovie import -> is not working, cause the whole file is imported. Therefore no 40k60fps export is possible from the existing projects.
 

Dfds

macrumors member
Oct 23, 2020
62
59
Try Davinci Resolve, it does take a bit of learning but it’s well worth while & it’s free
 
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HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
I don't believe ANY choice is going to import iMovie projects already edited and preserve them (but update 4K30fps to 4K60fps), so #2 has no solution at all. You basically need to recreate those existing projects in whatever video editing app you choose.

And you CAN import/connect directly with Mac Photos. It does import the asset into the library for that project, but that's so that you can store and further edit a project (or move it to another Mac) in the future without lost assets. For home movies, you'll likely perfect an edit, then 4K60fps render and then delete the entire project, not wasting any space for that project after you create the file and then render a perfect version.

In general, a still image like a photo takes up nearly ZERO space vs. all of the fine tuning you might do towards perfecting video. I've easily seen fairly short videos swell up to multiple terabytes of storage after fine tuning, graphic overlays, transitions, color correction, etc. But all that goes back to ZERO storage when the project is deleted after a "perfect" version is rendered.

In other words, I would not get hung up on imported photo storage "waste" at all, as it's only an allocation while the editing files exist. After the render, you likely delete them and free up all of the space they (photos and raw video) took.
 
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AppZ.Zero

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 29, 2021
95
194
I don't believe ANY choice is going to import iMovie projects already edited and preserve them (but update 4K30fps to 4K60fps), so #2 has no solution at all.
I never requested this feature.
You basically need to recreate those existing projects in whatever video editing app you choose.
Yes, but i want to do it in the most easy way. And the most easy way would be access to Apples photos library.
I know.
It does import the asset into the library for that project, but that's so that you can store and further edit a project (or move it to another Mac) in the future without lost assets.
ANd thats exactly what i dont want.
For home movies, you'll likely perfect an edit, then 4K60fps render and then delete the entire project, not wasting any space for that project after you create the file and then render a perfect version.
So its much more work then just editing a video, if you have to manually delete every project afterwards, otherwise it will take up to much space. Thats a stupid workflow.
In general, a still image like a photo takes up nearly ZERO space vs. all of the fine tuning you might do towards perfecting video.
I'm not working with images. I'm working with 4k 60 fps videos, sometimes prores. so, a lot of space even for small projects.
I've easily seen fairly short videos swell up to multiple terabytes of storage after fine tuning, graphic overlays, transitions, color correction, etc. But all that goes back to ZERO storage when the project is deleted after a "perfect" version is rendered.
Again, thats exactly my problem.
In other words, I would not get hung up on imported photo storage "waste" at all, as it's only an allocation while the editing files exist. After the render, you likely delete them and free up all of the space they (photos and raw video) took.
Yeah, with multiple parallel projects on hand thats really not usefull at all.
 

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
OK, with that kind of feedback to someone trying to HELP you, I can summarize that there is NO solution at all to cover ALL of your wants.

Video editing of ProRes 4K60fps is going to need BIG storage. There are no small storage video editors from any source that will edit multiple "parallel projects" of 4K60fps PRORES. You need to buy BIG storage to do what you want to do with ANY video editor.

If you want integration with Apple apps, you likely need Apple video editors, so that's iMovie or FCPX... ruling out iMovie because you want 4K60fps output, so that's FCPX. Anything else may or may not integrate with Photos as you are seeking. I'm not the programmer of FCPX, so whether you judge it as stupid or not doesn't change anything. It is basically what it is. Some other video editor is going to have its own issues. But ALL of them are going to need big storage for many "parallel projects."

You do NOT have to delete every project afterwards, just own BIG storage for archiving and move it to archive storage if you want to keep projects up to indefinitely. If you don't want archive storage, then you need to economically free up storage space (by deleting projects after a final render). This will be true with ANY video editor. There is no magical workaround.

If you have "multiple parallel projects on hand", you'll need BIG, BIG storage to maintain all of those projects as PRORES files until you can complete some of them, render a final version and then either delete the project to free up its space OR move the project to BIG(ger?) Archive storage to maintain the project for future edits at some point in the future.

I have BIG local storage for editing and BIGGER archival storage to persist some projects after finalizing a render. The:
  • former is made up of big SSD internal storage in a Mac and big SSD and HDD external DAS storage hooked to that Mac. At times, this is RAID storage because even 2X TB single drives is not always enough storage space.
  • latter is a 12-Bay Synology NAS loaded up with HDDs in a combined RAID-like configuration of nearly 100TBs.
It won't matter which video editor you choose if you don't have big storage for "parallel projects" to get most of what you want. To get almost all of what you want, you probably need to adopt FCPX, get some fat, fast storage to hook to your Mac and some fat(ter) archival storage if you want to maintain editable projects after you generate a final, polished render.

I can appreciate seeing it as "stupid", etc. myself but calling it names won't change the fundamental realities of what is needed for lots of video editing projects along the lines of what you describe. Again, I'm just another video editor trying to help.
 
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AppZ.Zero

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 29, 2021
95
194
OK, with that kind of feedback to someone trying to HELP you, I can summarize that there is NO solution at all to cover ALL of your wants.
Helping? You didnt reply to my Question of "Video Editing software which can export in 4k60fps with access to my photos library". All you did was telling me, why a workflow i don't want to adapt, wouldn't be too bad.

And sorry for seeming to beeing frustrated with your answer, its not you that i am frustrated with. I am frustrated with apple for not providing the export function that every iphone could fullfill regarding the video footage.
Video editing of ProRes 4K60fps is going to need BIG storage. There are no small storage video editors from any source that will edit multiple "parallel projects" of 4K60fps PRORES. You need to buy BIG storage to do what you want to do with ANY video editor.
Guess what, there is one. Its called iMovie. But since Apple is a greedy bitch, they wont let you export in 4k60fps cause they want to upsell.
But ALL of them are going to need big storage for many "parallel projects."
And thats exactly what i want a solution for. And if you cant provide any or the answer is "no, there is none" so be it. That would be the answer to my question.

(btw i found at least one editor which is doing exactly what i want (VN Editor), but i am not to prone to an abonement.) So technically its definitly possible.
You do NOT have to delete every project afterwards, just own BIG storage for archiving and move it to archive storage if you want to keep projects up to indefinitely. If you don't want archive storage, then you need to economically free up storage space (by deleting projects after a final render).
From the company who tells you, icloud will solve your problems...

Again, frustrated with Apple, not with you.
I can appreciate seeing it as "stupid", etc. myself but calling it names won't change the fundamental realities of what is needed for lots of video editing projects along the lines of what you describe. Again, I'm just another video editor trying to help.
Thanks for that.


I think the only suitable solution for me right now seems to be creating an FCPX library on an external drive, all the imports from photos library will then be copied to said drive and all the projects will be stored there as well. Not the solution i wanted but for my holiday videos it should be fine. The inly thing i have to think about is, what i will do when the 90 days test period of final cut pro will be finished.
And of course i have to recreate all my videos but thats a thing i had to do anyway.


Stupid to have to go back to offline storage when you have everything in iCloud but it is as it is.
 
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HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
iCloud is a terrible option for video editing assets because it is far slower than local drives. It doesn't matter if you have crazy fast broadband, iCloud servers themselves are slow, so that would be a relatively painful bottleneck for PRORES editing which does a huge amount of read/writes while you edit. I wouldn't even consider iCloud storage for any video editing at all myself. Instead, I'd wait until I can get to a more robust setup with local drives.

iCloud will definitely not solve this problem. I don't even bother with it for photos storage, iDevice backups, etc. In fact, I almost don't use it at all... except as a convenient way to quickly share (mostly) small files with other Macs or iDevices. In all things of size, local storage will be far faster. For video editing, I consider big local storage essential... as I don't want to wait all that time for countless editing read/writes to do their thing with slow cloud storage, whether iCloud or any other.

Your overall posts read like costs are the main driver of your frustration: having to pay for a video editor to output the resolution & fps you want to target, having to pay for local storage vs. using "free*" cloud storage, etc. However, in wanting to rise above what iMovie can do, you are stepping into a more professional needs level... and at that level, I doubt you can find anyone "pinching pennies" in supporting hardware and being happy with their video editing experience. If you don't own big local storage, 4K PRORES editing will be painfully slow using storage in the sky.

While it will take laying out some cash, local BIG storage is going to be VERY NOTICEABLY SUPERIOR to what you've apparently been doing leaning on iCloud storage. FCPX is going to be able to not only deliver what you want- 4K60fps output- but also much more beyond what is possible in a simple video editor like iMovie. Many pros use FCPX, so you will be shifting from hobbyist editor to beginner pro editor, using the very same tools they use. As such, you'll be gaining the same range of editing capabilities they have too (which are far greater than iMovie).

Yes, it will cost a fair amount of additional money- especially if you are wanting to archive editing projects instead of using the "edit to perfection, render 4K60fps master, then delete the project" approach- but that will get you on the path to faster editing, better editing, better output, flexility to do whatever you want (instead of only what an iMovie-like app will facilitate), etc. Yes, there is a bigger learning curve but you'll be taking the first steps towards learning to edit like professionals instead of hobbyists... shifting from- if you will- playing with toys to playing with power tools.

You are not the first to crash into this need and then step up to a new level. That new level removes many limitations (beyond only 4K60fps output) inherent in amateur editor apps like iMovie and similar. Your hardware stack is about to grow so you can do what you want to do here... and that supporting hardware will also help with many other computer uses too.

For anyone wanting to do it all within a single laptop and no supporting storage, they probably need to be the one's paying way too high for that 8TB SSD and BIG RAM in their Mac (probably with MAX Mx chip too)... and even that is going to prove to be only enough space for editing fairly short videos if 4K/60 PRORES is the working medium. As anyone opts for lower spec Macs (usually driven by price), those wanting to edit lots of video will then need lots of external hardware, particularly fast & big storage. Else, it will be a much slower editing experience waiting on slow distant servers to update over and over in all those read/writes... and much slower editing asking the app to work with compressed video during editing (which will almost certainly lead to overall slowdowns per system throttling) instead of raw PRORES (which will then make use of that external big storage), etc.

My own approach begins with converting video from whatever format it is shot in to PRORES files. They need a LOT of space just for those RAW PRORES files. Those files are then what gets imported into FCPX so that I'm only working with PRORES (no compressed format processing required) which yields maximum editing speed. Most editing of short videos are done on a pair of 8TB SSDs, one inside Mac and one in a Thunderbolt dock. When videos are bigger, I often bring a HDD-based RAID box into play (not as fast as SSD but pretty fast for bigger storage demands).

Edit files to perfection, export final creation as one big PRORES file (often 4K/60fps- just like OP), then run that through Handbrake to compress it down to h.265 with high quality settings for picture & sound. Carefully proof that final file. If it is "perfect", delete the editing project to free up the space for the next project. If I need to keep some editing project for further editing/evolution in the future, I move the whole project to gigantic archival storage in a Synology 12-bay bank of big HDDs.

I don't know if this is the best way to do all of that but it is FAST and works well for all of my editing purposes.

Next supporting purchase is probably a big RAID-based SSD product like OWC Thunderblade with 32TB of fast SSDs... or hopefully the newer Thunderblade X8 (8-Bay) one will be able to handle 64TB SSD in time. And if I need bigger fast storage for future products, add another of those and RAID BOTH together for 64TB or 128TB of fast SSD storage.
 
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AppZ.Zero

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 29, 2021
95
194
Your overall posts read like costs are the main driver of your frustration:
🤡
having to pay for a video editor to output the resolution & fps you want to target,
I have no problem with paying. But why pay 350 Dollars when my only usecase for FPCX would be exports that apple is just to lazy to provide?
having to pay for local storage vs. using "free" cloud storage
i am not using free storage. Ive got the second most expensive icloud storage. I use because its easy and usually works. I dont use Drives because they can fail and are outdated for me.
, etc. However, in wanting to rise above what iMovie can do, you are stepping into a more professional needs level... and at that level, I doubt you can find anyone "pinching pennies" in supporting hardware and being happy with their video editing experience.
Id dont give one about pinching pennies. But as mentioned before: 350 Bucks for one single Feature Apple just restricts us from without any need? F*** Apple.

Your answers are... special. And not suiting my case. And i strongly disagree with the statement, that i have to invest in the thousands just to edit my holiday videos and export them with 4k60fps.

My question here is answered. Close this one please.
 
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