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Virtual PC on OS9

Dronecatcher

Dronecatcher

macrumors 603
Original poster
Jun 17, 2014
5,278
7,940
Lincolnshire, UK
I was gunning for Youtube on Mac OS9 via Virtual PC, hoping to use Hooktube - however, no browser can fully render the site but what I did find out is that Windows 98 plus the K-Lite assisted Media Player can play 3gp files which aren't supported under OS9.
Just find it interesting how support differs across operating systems.

1Ghz TiBook/Mac OS9/VPC4/Windows 98SE:

OS9.png
 
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swamprock said:
I wonder if KernelEx would help with browsers under Windows 98.

http://kernelex.sourceforge.net/about/

I've found that VPC 6 is a lot faster than VPC 4 as well.
Click to expand...

I was going to install KernelEx but the problem seemed to arise with the sites security protocols, so I doubt it'd be of any use.

Interesting about VPC6 - as I found 5 was slower than 4 I didn't try it.
 
I find it utterly bizarre that Apple supported 3gp under Quicktime for Windows 98 but left OS9 out in the cold...

Quicktime.png


Also, try as i might, I couldn't get Retrozilla in Win98 to recognise a rtsp video stream - even after making entries in about:config that should have worked, the same error returned. "rtsp not a registered protocol"
However, copying the video url and opening in Quicktime initially showed promise but ended in the same result I now get in OSX....

Youtube.png

I've no idea why Quicktime tries but fails to find the media or times out but I do know it works for others - I can only assume it's a regional thing?
 
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Youtube playback on Mac OS9 realised....Virtual PC6/Windows98/KernelEx/Opera12.02/Violentmonkey extension/Viewtube/Quicktime 6.52

So slow it's impractical to use at all...but it does work. So frustrating when my ancient Nokia E61i with it's 220Mhz CPU still effortlessly browses and plays Youtube no problem!

Opera.png
 
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Will http://www.pcfreetime.com/formatfactory/index.php? Format Factory work on that VPC/W98/ExKrnl?

Maybe if we use .mp4 instead of the .3gp we could see some.

Are you using http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/quicktime-6x QT 6.0.3?

What about Hooktube there instead on Youtube?

Some .mp4 files are playable within MacOS9 with a trick from MacTron from 9Lives!

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2456.0.html
[doublepost=1513736120][/doublepost]
Dronecatcher said:
I find it utterly bizarre that Apple supported 3gp under Quicktime for Windows 98 but left OS9 out in the cold...

View attachment 742689

Also, try as i might, I couldn't get Retrozilla in Win98 to recognise a rtsp video stream - even after making entries in about:config that should have worked, the same error returned. "rtsp not a registered protocol"
However, copying the video url and opening in Quicktime initially showed promise but ended in the same result I now get in OSX....

View attachment 742691
I've no idea why Quicktime tries but fails to find the media or times out but I do know it works for others - I can only assume it's a regional thing?
Click to expand...

Apple did want the Mac OS X success at all cost. They made QT 6 picky about the .MP4 files, but it can be fooled to allow all MP4 (That is capable to run)

from wikipedia
"
On July 15, 2002, Apple released QuickTime 6.0, providing the following features:[43]

  • MPEG-4 playback, import, and export, including MPEG-4 Part 2 video and AAC Audio.
  • Support for Flash 5, JPEG 2000, and improved Exif handling.
  • Instant-on streaming playback.
  • MPEG-2 playback (via the purchase of Apple's MPEG-2 Playback Component).
  • Scriptable ActiveX control.
QuickTime 6 was initially available for Mac OS 8.6 – 9.x, Mac OS X (10.1.5 minimum), and Windows 98, Me, 2000, and XP. Development of QuickTime 6 for Mac OS slowed considerably in early 2003, after the release of Mac OS X v10.2 in August 2002. QuickTime 6 for Mac OS continued on the 6.0.x path, eventually stopping with version 6.0.3"
 
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G4fanboy said:
Will http://www.pcfreetime.com/formatfactory/index.php? Format Factory work on that VPC/W98/ExKrnl?

Maybe if we use .mp4 instead of the .3gp we could see some.

Are you using http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/quicktime-6x QT 6.0.3?

What about Hooktube there instead on Youtube?

Some .mp4 files are playable within MacOS9 with a trick from MacTron from 9Lives!

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2456.0.html
Click to expand...

File conversion isn't the problem as such but I want to avoid that as it takes too long and I can now download and play but it's so clunky.
Hooktube was my first objective as it offers seamless download, however the site isn't reachable in OS9 with Classilla. In VPC, Retrozilla opens the site but it hangs immediately and Opera refuses to open it because of security protocols.

Yes, I have the latest Quicktime for OS9 and I've never had problems playing MP4 but h264 and 3gp are not supported.

My next step is a lightweight Linux distro in VPC...
 
I wonder if anyone has taken a look at that old Japanese YouTube OS 9 thing from a few years ago, and attempted to make heads or tails of it. I took a look at it, but I couldn't figure out how he got that to work. There was a LOT of javascript involved...
 
Dronecatcher said:
Interesting about VPC6 - as I found 5 was slower than 4 I didn't try it.
Click to expand...

Curiously, did VPC6 provide you with better performance over VPC4? Also, are these 3gp videos playing back smoothly in VPC or is it a proof-of-concept slideshow?
 
swamprock said:
I wonder if anyone has taken a look at that old Japanese YouTube OS 9 thing from a few years ago, and attempted to make heads or tails of it. I took a look at it, but I couldn't figure out how he got that to work. There was a LOT of javascript involved...
Click to expand...

Don't think it's relevant now as it used to access Youtube flv files which are no longer available.
[doublepost=1513776613][/doublepost]
AphoticD said:
Curiously, did VPC6 provide you with better performance over VPC4? Also, are these 3gp videos playing back smoothly in VPC or is it a proof-of-concept slideshow?
Click to expand...

VPC6 - I haven't seen a speed increase in what I'm doing and yes, 3gp has smooth playback - just a short delay before the file plays - you can do all the normal stuff, resize and fullscreen.
 
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Dronecatcher said:
Don't think it's relevant now as it used to access Youtube flv files which are no longer available.
Click to expand...

Good point, but I'm curious if there's a way to change it so that it points to Quicktime and plays other formats, somewhat like PPC Media Center does, and outside of a browser. I looked at it but I'm a zero at javascript.
 
swamprock said:
Good point, but I'm curious if there's a way to change it so that it points to Quicktime and plays other formats, somewhat like PPC Media Center does, and outside of a browser. I looked at it but I'm a zero at javascript.
Click to expand...

Sadly, there's no chance in OS9 - none of the file formats now presented by Youtube are supported, hence my workaround with VPC. Shame Apple didn't give Quicktime the codec support it lent to Windows 98.
 
Dronecatcher said:
Sadly, there's no chance in OS9 - none of the file formats now presented by Youtube are supported, hence my workaround with VPC. Shame Apple didn't give Quicktime the codec support it lent to Windows 98.
Click to expand...

You're right, and I didn't think about that. Long days at work... :)
 
The new retro-MAME stuff Maybe could be run inside a W95 bottle. Or a W98 one.
[doublepost=1514481181][/doublepost]I have seen something about direct X 8 or 9 (hardware emulation on virtual hardware) needed
 
G4fanboy said:
The new retro-MAME stuff Maybe could be run inside a W95 bottle. Or a W98 one.
[doublepost=1514481181][/doublepost]I have seen something about direct X 8 or 9 (hardware emulation on virtual hardware) needed
Click to expand...

There's an old DOS emulator that I was a part of back in 1998-99 called Retrocade that runs perfectly in VPC. The problem is finding it, the support files it requires, and the correct ROM images. I have them all in a backup somewhere...
 
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MacTron from MacOS9Lives! told me that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoftPC were more optimized that VirtualPC for some stuff.
"Unlike most emulators, the SoftWindows product used recompiled Windows components to improve performance in most business applications, providing almost native performance (but this meant that, unlike SoftPC, SoftWindows was not upgradable)"

Virtual PC were made to be "Carbon", while softwindows were classic only.
 
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G4fanboy said:
MacTron from MacOS9Lives! told me that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoftPC were more optimized that VirtualPC for some stuff.
"Unlike most emulators, the SoftWindows product used recompiled Windows components to improve performance in most business applications, providing almost native performance (but this meant that, unlike SoftPC, SoftWindows was not upgradable)"

Virtual PC were made to be "Carbon", while softwindows were classic only.
Click to expand...

I was an early adopter of RealPC, which was from Insignia, prior to SoftWindows (later purchased by FWB). RealPC shipped with MS-DOS and was the fastest x86 emulator back when a Power Macintosh 7100/66 was my main machine (Mac OS 8.1). EDIT: With support back to System 7.1.2 for minimum Mac OS overhead.

Windows 95 with MS Office was quite usable even on that PowerPC 601 hardware. If you feel like traveling back in time, it's worth giving it a go. It runs really smooth on my Sawtooth G4 under Mac OS 8.6 (or OS9). There are networking capabilities via Open Transport so it's possible to get online.

I believe there is a download for version 1.1 on the Mac Repository, which was an update to support Win98SE and OS9. DOS-only games run perfectly on older Mac hardware. Need for Speed, Warcraft (original), Duke Nukem (2D), Rise of the Triad, Jazz the JackRabbit, Command and Conquer, etc. QuickTime's MIDI playback engine is used for most of the in-game music which relied on a Soundblaster card with MIDI capabilities.
 
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G4fanboy said:
The latest seems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealPC

It mentions:"RealPC was able to convert Virtual-PC hard disk files to use and run the installed OS"

There is a youtube video with a setup with voodoo graphics that were hardware optimized somehow

Click to expand...

That’s right. If you had a 3dfx Voodoo2/3/4 PCI graphics card installed in your Mac, RealPC could connect to it for 3D acceleration in DOS and Windows
 
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Only on 3dfx gear? Are all ATI and nVidia out?

Anyway, more info about retroarch over W98SE/ME/2000. In case we could run it on OS9 either with VPC or Soft*.

https://www.libretro.com/

"
Release highlights
Windows 98 SE/2000/Millennium Edition version – now with 29 cores!

So we announced a Visual Studio 2005 version of RetroArch this past week which runs on Windows 98 SE / Millennium / 2000. Upon release however, there were no cores.

We now have 29 cores available on our buildbot! You can get them by starting your copy of RetroArch 1.6.4 and going to Online Updater -> Update Cores. Note that because it’s Visual Studio 2005/MSVC2005 we are relying on as our compiler, certain cores might never become available for this. For instance, cores that rely on C11 (like SameBoy) or C++11/C++14 (like Dinothawr/Dolphin/Citra) will not make the cut. Fortunately, most of our cores can happily compile as either C89 and/or C++98, so backporting is not as big an issue for it as it would be for other projects which are not as careful when it comes to code maintenance.

Here are some general hints and advice in case you want to run RetroArch on your retro battle station:
* Keep in mind that Windows 98 SE GPU drivers in most cases won’t support OpenGL 2.0. There is one exception apparently, which is the nVidia Geforce 6 series. This GPU series should support OpenGL 2.0 and there should still be drivers somewhere available for Windows 98. In case you have such a GPU, you could opt to use the OpenGL driver which should be more full-featured than our GDI and/or Direct3D9 drivers.
* In most cases, your GPU driver will probably support Direct3D 9. If you want to use Direct 3D 9, you should only use the menu driver RGUI with it. Neither MaterialUI and/or XMB will render properly as of yet with Direct3D.
* For lower-end GPU hardware where neither Direct3D 9 or OpenGL is desirable or possible (because you don’t have hardware accelerated 3D video drivers), a GDI video driver is also available. For this release, we added OSD font rendering to it. There are still issues remaining with this GDI driver though on certain OS configurations. Bparker might be able to use some help with getting some of those niggles sorted out. Reminder that if you want to use a menu driver with GDI, it’s best to use the RGUI menu driver."
 
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Bummer :(

Does anyone know if VPC5 works in Leopard ( WWW says only 10.1.x )
Is it faster than VPC6/7 ?

Best regards,
voidRunner
 
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