Virus Attack!

[Mav451]

You guys should adopt the policy at Maryland.

While I'm not the help desk operator here, they pretty much ban you from network access until you have:
1) installed SP2 + McAfee Virus Scanner (free via office).
2) proven you do not have the virus.

When tons of people realize they're getting kicked off/banned from using the internet, that means no more AIM, no more (*ahem other stuff*). People usually get their act together when these extreme measures are taken 😉

 

[mkrishnan]

While I'm not the help desk operator here, they pretty much ban you from network access until you have:
1) installed SP2 + McAfee Virus Scanner (free via office).
2) proven you do not have the virus.

Hmmm...so is using Linux or MacOS or whatever considered a get-out-of-jail-free card? Or, erm, what if you're on a diff version of Windows than XP? That's an interesting one. We're talking about personally owned computers, right, and not ones the U owns?

 

[Mav451]

Well OSX is obviously exempt...though I can't say I've seen much more than 2-3 a dorm hall. In terms of Windows, the SP2 rule is strictly enforced. Last year, if you weren't SP1 by Fall semester ('03-'04) you were banned until you updated. Very, very effective.

"Why doesn't AIM work?"

Cuz you're a threat to the entire network (lol). Things like these get people moving/upgrading. If not by themselves, we got a team of students that can go out to the dorms to do it--of course they're paid by the hour too, so people who are looking for money to help pay for books.

 

[ChrisBrightwell]

[...] In terms of Windows, the SP2 rule is strictly enforced. Last year, if you weren't SP1 by Fall semester ('03-'04) you were banned until you updated. Very, very effective. [...]

So you're essentially forcing every Windows user to upgrade to XP, even if they run a fully-patched install of Windows 2000??

Do you provide a free or low-cost mechanism for them to obtain an XP license?

 

[mkrishnan]

In terms of Windows, the SP2 rule is strictly enforced.

So if you're running Win2K, or somesuch, you're forced to purchase XP? Or do they provide it? Very interesting. I still think it's a little goofy...my experience has always been the opposite. I haven't had virus problems on my own computers since I had my Amiga. And the virii I did come in contact with, which were immediately identified and neutralized, of course, were invariably caught by using a floppy disk on a managed computer at a university site....

EDIT: Chris, you beat me to it! 🙂 It's funny we chose the same example. Of all the incarnations of Windows, I rather like Win2k.

 

[Mav451]

Oh my bad. Obviously if you aren't on XP, then the SP1/SP2 doesn't have anything to do with you. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

The OIT office does provide $10 academic copies, but that's another issue.

 

[Steven1621]

You guys should adopt the policy at Maryland.

While I'm not the help desk operator here, they pretty much ban you from network access until you have:
1) installed SP2 + McAfee Virus Scanner (free via office).
2) proven you do not have the virus.

When tons of people realize they're getting kicked off/banned from using the internet, that means no more AIM, no more (*ahem other stuff*). People usually get their act together when these extreme measures are taken 😉

I agree with you as do several of the IT pros that I work with. Some feel that the preventative measures they take are enough for the size of our network while others want a much stricter banning policy (like something you mentioned). There is a bit of a debate in the department.

 

[greenmeanie]

schools

i could name alot of schools that have no clue what they are doing in the IT department.

 

[MacNeXT]

It has been about three years since i've switched. I study computer science but I often avoid Windows problems. All those stories about viruses get boring after a while. I rather discuss real CS issues (programming languages, algorithms, etc. etc.)

A couple of weeks ago a friend of mine called me up. He did a fresh install of Windows XP and it got infected immediately. With my common CS sense i told him that sounded very unlikely to me, but reading this makes me think differently.

It's a shame that the industry has to deal with these issues that are all due to bad products from Microsoft. I think I will refrain myself to comment on ANY Windows problem AT ALL from now on. But I also think that could hurt me in the future. Dealing with Windows is inevitable in the IT industry and I will look incompetent if I'm not up to snuff with these Windows issues.

This makes me feel sad.

 

[Earendil]

My school only recently this month implemented a client side piece of software (read:Spyware) that checks to make sure the client is running antivirus software. Mac and Linux users are exempt from the having to use the software, but we still have to log into the network now, every 24 hours... It's a pain because now, no matter what you're doing, you get booted off the network 24 hours after you last signed in. It's happened to me while uploading HW, and while playing WC3, it's a pain.

I'm not sure why they can't just log our MAC address and be done with it. Instead we get diverted to a website that asks for user name and pw, then sends us to a page to accept the rules and regulations, after accepting that we are sent to yet another site saying we are logged in, before we can go anywhere or do anything on the network.

I believe in network safety, but I think our campus just went from under secured to over secured. And for reference, we are a 1700 student private college.

~Tyler

 

[Mav451]

It has been about three years since i've switched. I study computer science but I often avoid Windows problems. All those stories about viruses get boring after a while. I rather discuss real CS issues (programming languages, algorithms, etc. etc.)

A couple of weeks ago a friend of mine called me up. He did a fresh install of Windows XP and it got infected immediately. With my common CS sense i told him that sounded very unlikely to me, but reading this makes me think differently.

It's a shame that the industry has to deal with these issues that are all due to bad products from Microsoft. I think I will refrain myself to comment on ANY Windows problem AT ALL from now on. But I also think that could hurt me in the future. Dealing with Windows is inevitable in the IT industry and I will look incompetent if I'm not up to snuff with these Windows issues.

This makes me feel sad.

The key word is he installed XP with outdated software. We're in the year 2005, and if he's installing XP vanilla (pre-SP1 = 2001), then what does he expect? Full protection? Its like someone installing the first version of OSX and expecting not security holes/bugs/etc.

 

[MacNeXT]

The key word is he installed XP with outdated software. We're in the year 2005, and if he's installing XP vanilla (pre-SP1 = 2001), then what does he expect? Full protection? Its like someone installing the first version of OSX and expecting not security holes/bugs/etc.

\

Yeah stupid me, [sarcasm]how on earth could I think it's unlikely that a freshly installed PC can get infected while doing absolutely nothing, within five minutes.[/sarcasm] I study CS, go figure... I'm not ashamed that I don't know this stuff cause I avoid Windows problem stories like the plague. As far as I'm concerned, typical Windows problems don't have ANTHING to do with Computer Science. That's the point I was trying to make.

Only too bad that there will be a point in time where people expect me to know this stupid stuff, just "because I'm a CS guy".

If I ever get to run my own business, it'll be 100% Apple and Linux, that's for sure.

 

[spercharged69]

As far as I'm concerned, typical Windows problems don't have ANTHING to do with Computer Science.

lol.

 

[stubeeef]

If anyone here is familar with Bowdoin, they can afford a brand new network every 30 days if they wanted to, and then laugh! Small and full of blue blood bucks.

 

[sjpetry]

i could name alot of schools that have no clue what they are doing in the IT department.

Me too, my school has a very unsafe network. Good thing I use a Mac. 🙂

 

[ChrisBrightwell]

I study CS, go figure... I'm not ashamed that I don't know this stuff cause I avoid Windows problem stories like the plague. As far as I'm concerned, typical Windows problems don't have ANTHING to do with Computer Science. That's the point I was trying to make. [...]

LMFAO.

Ignorance is bliss, I suppose. Ignorance is a lot of other things, too, but it certainly is bliss.

 

[Makosuke]

MacNeXT might sound a little backward, but his viewpoint is perfectly valid--he's interested in the theoretical aspects of computing (hence CS, not CIS), and so low-level implementations and conceptual issues are of more interest to him than real-world practice. That's fine, and that kind of thing does eventually filter down to the common user.

I'm sure he knows enough to be aware that any computer with a security hole, when exposed to the internet, can be compromised and infected with no user interaction. He just didn't realize that the situation with Windows has become so dire that five minutes of exposure is enough to do it.

As for the original issue: Give the guy a break. Anybody who's actually worked with universities knows that although more than anywhere they SHOULD have tight networks and strict policies (thanks to hordes of incompetent and/or malicious users), there's rarely the budget or manpower to take care of things properly, and even when there is the bureaucracy often gets in the way.

My campus (8000 students, public University) network is only this year starting to be upgraded into the 21st century, and there are still piles of ancient systems and 5+ year old sub-networks with crummy hardware plugged into the mess. The guys in charge usually want to fix it, and they know how to fix it, but actually getting that done isn't quite so easy.

 

[Earendil]

MacNeXT might sound a little backward, but his viewpoint is perfectly valid--he's interested in the theoretical aspects of computing (hence CS, not CIS), and so low-level implementations and conceptual issues are of more interest to him than real-world practice. That's fine, and that kind of thing does eventually filter down to the common user. *snip*

As a freshmen CS major, I can't attest to what exactly the field is about. BUT, I think MacNeXT and Makosuke are right. CS isn't "Windows Science". It's not about operating systems (though by default we do study the different operating systems, as they are an instrumental part of a computer). I managed my first semester of CS work, programming in C++, and understanding concepts all without any knowledge of Windows.I've always known Apple OS, and never touched Windows if I could help it. CS isn't about Windows, it's about computers.
But it is funny that everyone on my hall thinks I can help them with their windows problems just because I'm a CS major, and I should "know this stuff". CS doesn't teach you how to get rid of viruses, or how to make a printer work with Windows...That's the area of wizards and sorcerers 😉


~Tyler
~Earendil

 

[Earendil]

LMFAO.

Ignorance is bliss, I suppose. Ignorance is a lot of other things, too, but it certainly is bliss.

And interestingly enough, as a side note, it's the guys that knew "windows inside and out" and could "do anything" with their machine, that were the ones that started the first semester of CS, and didn't finish.

~Tyler
~Earendil

 

[Mav451]

Wow thanks for that blatantly, ignorant stereotype. I can attest to most of the CS students here (mostly b/c engineering is so close to CS); and I can tell you that most of these students who are Windows users, are successful, just as successful as a Mac user or Linux user would be.

I can't say I know any Mac users on campus that are CS students, on the other hand. They've either been a random jock (yes I found one down the hall using a Mac), or a pretty hot girl. Am I going to say that every Mac user is a jock/chick? No. I don't seek to resort to blanket statements.

But not finishing CS? I'd hold your tongue.

*I will agree with you on one thing tho.*
It does NOT take a CS major to figure out how to use Windows. Take me for example. I can't program worth a damn. I survived through Java and Matlab, but just barely. CS is more "high-level", while Windows maintenance is "low-level". It takes a lot more brains to program then to understand lil "nuances", if you will.

Its certainly is not hard to learn these nuances though, and I guess that's the point the other guy was trying to make. Certainly not as difficult as programming >> but I digress.

 

[notjustjay]

And interestingly enough, as a side note, it's the guys that knew "windows inside and out" and could "do anything" with their machine, that were the ones that started the first semester of CS, and didn't finish.

Wow thanks for that blatantly, ignorant stereotype

I was under the impression that he meant the guys who have the arrogant know-it-all attitude that "Hey, I'm hot stuff, I know more about Windows than you ever will, so watch me wipe the floor with you in this program" who were not prepared for the fact that, hey, Computer Science isn't about all that.

I didn't take computer science but I took computer systems engineering (1996-2000) where we studied programming in C++, Java, Verilog, and x86 assembly (now THAT's fun), fundamentals of digital logic and semiconductors, communications, CPU architecture, simulation of closed-loop feedback systems, etc., Matlab, and calculus. Lots and lots of calculus.

Advanced knowledge of Windows or modern Intel computers got you nowhere. (There was one course where if you knew how interrupts worked on the 8086, and how to use the 8259 PIC (circa 1979) you might have been able to skip a few lectures...)

Oh, and in those days, computer viruses were pretty much a non-issue as long as you didn't open unsolicited attachments. It wasn't until I was in the workforce that I was struck by my first virus (Nimda, in 2001)...

 

[ChrisBrightwell]

And interestingly enough, as a side note, it's the guys that knew "windows inside and out" and could "do anything" with their machine, that were the ones that started the first semester of CS, and didn't finish.

That's a pretty blatantly generalized observation -- as I'm one of "those guys" and, believe it or not, I'm still in CS. In fact, most of the folks in CS @ UAH (arguably the best CS school in the state) are Windows "buffs."

Then again -- being adjacent to an Army installation, Huntsville tends to have an affinity for Windows.

 

[whooleytoo]

Doesn't this thread just validate the original poster's point - that a lot of work/expertise is required to keep a network of Windows workstations virus/malware free; while on the Mac side it's trivial.

 

[Timelessblur]

I am friends with several EE/CS,CompE, and CS majors. I my self am just studing to be a CE (civil)
I can tell you the CS majors here at school using a Mac have some trouble with there programs when they turned it in for example it would work on a Mac and no on the PC it was check on since all the programs where run on a PC for grading. Mainly it came form the compiling with the diffent CPUs and errors that came up there. They can get though it but it some times gave them a lot of trouble and they normal when to a friend in the class to complian and test the program on there computer to make sure it worked.

The hardest part of programing is not learning the langauge since that is all just sentic. The hardest part is getting the logic stucture down. Once you get the logic stucture down it easy to learn another language. I know VB.net to a point and I have still help people in there low level CS C++ classes with out knowing any C++ language because I could see some of there logic errors.

 

[Earendil]

I was under the impression that he meant the guys who have the arrogant know-it-all attitude that "Hey, I'm hot stuff, I know more about Windows than you ever will, so watch me wipe the floor with you in this program" who were not prepared for the fact that, hey, Computer Science isn't about all that.

Bingo.
At least someone saw the point of my two posts, and didn't decide to take it out of context and make an argument out of it.

The idea is there people think that CS majors need a working knowledge Windows, and not just that, should be able to fix the computer when broken, but know about Viruses as well. My statements were two fold,
1. I don't have but a basic working knowledge of Windows atm.
2. Those that had an incredible knowledge of the windows OS were getting their butts handed to them by the freshmen female math majors that needed our help to start programs, but once taught, were giving us a run for our money when it came to understanding Computers, languages, and spitting it back out.

This caused a few of those "High and Mighty" Windows nerds to realize all their working knowledge of Windows wasn't going to make them good at CS, they realized what CS really was (or at least what it wasn't), and a few of them dropped the class. I'd feel pretty confident saying that the top 5 people in our 80 person freshmen class wouldn't know how to fix windows if something was drastically wrong with it.

That said, I know a lot of upper class CS majors that DO know Windows inside and out, and know how to fix just about anything. So I wasn't saying that all Windows nerds fail CS, I was just countering a few other peoples "blatantly generalized observation" that all CS majors SHOULD know Windows, on pain of being laughed at on these forums.


~Tyler
~Earendil