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redeye_be said:
Isn't Open Firmware supposed to be the alternative for BIOS, and wouldn't apple want to continue using it (sorry for getting a little off topic here)?

Cheers
You'd think so. I personally think Open Firmware is much better than BIOS. They'll have to pretty much rewrite from the ground up though. The rumor is that they will use BIOS with some type of control chip to validate OS X (The chip must be there so you can use OS X. This keeps you from running OS X on any PC). There is a lot of info on this in the forums.
 
To settle this -

There ARE viruses for Mac OSX, but NONE of them are even remotley widespread. For example, I could write a virus for OSX quite easily, as could many other security professionals. Granted, its much harder to write a virus, trojans, ect ect for OSX than it is for something say... Windows... but no OS is 100% secure and none probably will be (at least in our lifetime). The fact that we as apple users can boast about, is the fact that there are no widespread viruses and because of that fact, as well as a few other factors- the chance of getting a virus is next to nil. Even today apple computers running OSX have a less than 5% market share and to have a virus progating and becoming a widespread issue is remote in this day and age. This doesnt even take into account that people dont target apple users because they are such a minority. But remember, no OS is perfect from a security standpoint, to say that no virus exists, or will exit for the OSX platform is jus ignorant
 
g0gie said:
There ARE viruses for Mac OSX
Name one.

For example, I could write a virus for OSX quite easily, as could many other security professionals.
No you couldn't. That's why they were thinking of having a contest of who could write one. Because there aren't any and it will be very hard to write one. No impossible, but very hard.
 
grapes911 said:
Viruses usually attack an OS, not hardware. So it won't make a difference. Linux for instance is That being said, there are things such as BIOS viruses that can attack the software on your motherboard. Right now Macs don't have BIOS, but they most likely will after the switch.

True, well-designed hardware should be immune to viruses. (There were old hard drives, on the other hand, that could be ruined because if sent bogus commands they would try to seek a sector that doesn't exist and screw up the drive head.)

But Windows could wipe out an OS X partition if Windows has the right filesystem drivers, because Windows won't care about OS X's permissions. (AFAIK, however, Windows does not have drivers for reading HFS/UFS type file systems.) Just like if you boot a PPC in OS 9 you can delete all the OS X files because OS 9 doesn't respect those permissions.

Hopefully, it will be easy to run Windows in a "sandbox", kind of like how VPC runs Windows now. Then if you get a Windows virus, the worst it can do is wipe out your Windows drive image.

Isn't Open Firmware supposed to be the alternative for BIOS, and wouldn't apple want to continue using it (sorry for getting a little off topic here)?

OF is indeed an alternative, but its not clear yet if Apple will use it on the Mactels. It's more advanced, but I there might be compatibility issues. For consistency across the two platforms, Apple might go to extra lengths to make it work.
 
savar said:
But Windows could wipe out an OS X partition if Windows has the right filesystem drivers, because Windows won't care about OS X's permissions. (AFAIK, however, Windows does not have drivers for reading HFS/UFS type file systems.) Just like if you boot a PPC in OS 9 you can delete all the OS X files because OS 9 doesn't respect those permissions.

Hopefully, it will be easy to run Windows in a "sandbox", kind of like how VPC runs Windows now. Then if you get a Windows virus, the worst it can do is wipe out your Windows drive image.
Personally, I wouldn't run windows on a Mac. I don't trust windows enough. And run it like Virtual PC does? Do you mean emulate the environment? I'm sure VPC will come out for OS X on the Intel.
 
there ARE proof of concept Trojans for OS X, and possibly one in the wild. but that is not a virus.

there are no self replicated malicious software out there at this point in time for OS X, i doubt it will remain that way forever, and is the reason why Apple doesn't push the virus free OS in their marketing
 
You are guys are too big headed to realize that maybe the OS you guys think is virus free actually has a virus. I mean why do you guys have to go around poking fun of people who say something that you DON'T WANT to be TRUE but may ACTUALLY be TRUE. I mean wow big deal there are viruses that can affect OS X i didn't say they are easy to get or as widespread as viruses for windows but they are out there. They DO exist for Mac OS X. The reason being is that Macs are not the normal computers you see in government establishments or banks or the companies that these people writing the viruses want to shut down. Windows machines are running most of the companies that these people are trying to shut down. Now I thought forums are supposed to be a friendly environment and if you guys want to treat people that bring something up that you say is not true and your right and no one can prove you wrong than maybe i should just stop using these forums cause i don't want to be around a place where you can't voice your oppinion w/o being ridicculed and made fun of. Oh and i will try to get a hold of my uncle(verry busy) and see if he knows what the virus was called and what it did. But you guys need to grow up and learn how to treat people.
 
crazyeyes said:
They DO exist for Mac OS X.
Name one.

The reason being is that Macs are not the normal computers you see in government establishments or banks or the companies that these people writing the viruses want to shut down. Windows machines are running most of the companies that these people are trying to shut down.
While I don't know what they run, I'd guess that they run their own modified versions of Unix. I really don't know though.

Now I thought forums are supposed to be a friendly environment and if you guys want to treat people that bring something up that you say is not true and your right and no one can prove you wrong ...
Prove me wrong. I'll listen to any intelligent argument or facts you provide.

than maybe i should just stop using these forums cause i don't want to be around a place where you can't voice your oppinion w/o being ridicculed and made fun of.
To each their own.
 
crazyeyes said:
Now I thought forums are supposed to be a friendly environment and if you guys want to treat people that bring something up that you say is not true and your right and no one can prove you wrong than maybe i should just stop using these forums cause i don't want to be around a place where you can't voice your oppinion w/o being ridicculed and made fun of.
If anything, I'd say that people here are being too nice. If there is a virus out there, no one seems to know about it. You'd think someone would want to shut us elitist Mac users up. You might want to grow a thicker skin though, because people here do ask questions when others make statements like the ones you have and then get offended when someone says "prove it". At least no one is making fun of your spelling. :p

Even if there is a virus out there, at least we don't have to worry about it spreading too much, which is one of the reasons why viruses are so bad.
 
Even if a lot of the posts on this thread have been... opinionated, I don't think anyone is being ridiculed. No one has actually posted proof of a real virus in this thread yet.
 
I know what I am about to type is going to get me flamed and some what I am going to say is going to be disproven. Please attempt to remember that I know this and I am no fool yet I felt the need to add something to conversation.


Please tell me every last one of you is not so idealistic and lost that you believe there is "no such thing as a virus" for OS X?

People come on this is 2005 and while OS X is not a primary target of malware creators its certainly not unheard of for it to have its problems.

A lousy google search of mac trojans led me to these links
http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/maccowhanda.html

http://macscan.securemac.com/

-- Older from 2004 but about a worm --
http://www.pcworldmalta.com/news/2004/Oct/271.htm

So while you all can see in the first link that its possible for OS X to be duped into getting a virus its hardly as vulnerable as Windows XP which is known for its self replicating problems.
 
g0gie said:
... I could write a virus for OSX quite easily...


Now how many times have I heard that one before? You'll be pretty (in)famous so you better get started.
 
jer2eydevil88 said:
...its hardly as vulnerable as Windows XP which is known for its self replicating problems.
And the definition of a virus is that it is self replicating
/flame ;)
 
jer2eydevil88 said:
A lousy google search of mac trojans led me to these links
http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/analyses/maccowhanda.html

So while you all can see in the first link that its possible for OS X to be duped into getting a virus its hardly as vulnerable as Windows XP which is known for its self replicating problems.
Actually, your posts proves nothing and I'll tell you way. A trojan does not equal a virus.

A trojan is malware that is hidden in something else. Much like the trojan house of mythology. A trojan cannot replicate itself. When you have the trojan, it can effect all different parts of the system. It cannot however embed itself in other files. To get one, some person must physically put it in a file and you must download it. This trojan will not spread to others unless you send it to them.

A virus is also malware, but slightly different. Like a real virus, a computer virus must have a host. The biggest part is that a virus is self-replicating. Meaning that once you get it, it can infect other executables and even send or mail itself to others. Basically, this is why "well written" viruses can spread to so quickly.

There are a few trojans (not many) for OS X. They don't spread too much because of their inability to self-replicate. Again, there are no known viruses for OS X. Symantec is probably the worlds most notable malware experts. You can check their Online Virus Encyclopedia. It lists about 180 known malware if you search for OS X. Not one of them is a virus.
 
Blue Velvet said:
Now how many times have I heard that one before? You'll be pretty (in)famous so you better get started.
I'd go with famous. You'd be like those hackers that gets caught and then make huge amounts of money in the computer security field.
 
So, if you are running Windoze on virtual PC, can IT get infected? and if it does, will it affect OSX in any way, or just virtual PC?
 
BiikeMike said:
So, if you are running Windoze on virtual PC, can IT get infected? and if it does, will it affect OSX in any way, or just virtual PC?
If you are running Windows via VPC, your Windows installation can get infected. It cannot affect OS X or VPC. It can only affect the virtual Windows installation.
 
You have worm confused with virus

This is pulled off of dictionary.com under the definition of virus.

virus



<security> (By analogy with biological viruses, via SF) A
program or piece of code written by a cracker that "infects"
one or more other programs by embedding a copy of itself in
them, so that they become Trojan horses. When these
programs are executed, the embedded virus is executed too,
thus propagating the "infection". This normally happens
invisibly to the user.

A virus has an "engine" - code that enables it to propagate
and optionally a "payload" - what it does apart from
propagating. It needs a "host" - the particular hardware and
software environment on which it can run and a "trigger" - the
event that starts it running.

Unlike a worm, a virus cannot infect other computers without
assistance. It is propagated by vectors such as humans
trading programs with their friends (see SEX). The virus
may do nothing but propagate itself and then allow the program
to run normally. Usually, however, after propagating silently
for a while, it starts doing things like writing "cute"
messages on the terminal or playing strange tricks with the
display (some viruses include display hacks). Viruses
written by particularly antisocial crackers may do
irreversible damage, like deleting files.

By the 1990s, viruses had become a serious problem, especially
among IBM PC and Macintosh users (the lack of security on
these machines enables viruses to spread easily, even
infecting the operating system). The production of special
antivirus software has become an industry, and a number of
exaggerated media reports have caused outbreaks of near
hysteria among users. Many lusers tend to blame
*everything* that doesn't work as they had expected on virus
attacks. Accordingly, this sense of "virus" has passed into
popular usage where it is often incorrectly used for a worm
or Trojan horse.

See boot virus, phage. Compare back door. See also
Unix conspiracy.

So what I posted is still relevant since a Trojan is a virus its just not a large scale self replicating worm like the kind of virus associated with Windows.
 
jer2eydevil88 said:
This is pulled off of dictionary.com under the definition of virus.



So what I posted is still relevant since a Trojan is a virus its just not a large scale self replicating worm like the kind of virus associated with Windows.
Nope still irrelevant. Yes a virus is normally a Trojan because it hides in another file. A Trojan is not necessarily a virus though.
Example: A couch is furniture. All furniture is not a chair.

From Cisco's website:
Unlike viruses and worms, Trojans do not reproduce by infecting other files nor do they self-replicate. Trojans must spread through user interaction such as opening an e-mail attachment or downloading and running a file from the Internet.
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/about/security/intelligence/05_09_Virus-Worm-Diffs.html

I REPEAT: THERE ARE NO KNOWN VIRUSES FOR OS X.

PS. Don't use the word "worm" either. They are an entirely different type of malware.
 
I think I had a virus a couple of weeks ago in VPC with windhoze 2000. When I started VPC, VPC asked me a question which I automatically said yes to. Well, it deleted completely my 10 GB windows partition, leaving only a blank partition... So the virus is called VPC 7 and comes standard with VPC 7!
 
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