VM on ARM MacBooks

[dagmar10]

So I have 2 more days to get a 2020 Intel MacBook Pro that comes with a free AirPod. However, I was trying to hold off as long as I can to get more details on the upcoming ARM models, but the window for the student discount & free AirPod will shut soon. Anyway, the biggest program for me to run and highly consider the last Intel MacBooks is a software called YNAB 4 (I refuse to use their sub services, so I'm sticking with their app forever).

If I do decide to wait for ARM and forego purchasing a 2020 Intel Mac, do you think at some point there will be a way to run YNAB 4 virtualized (yes, this means also with the 64bit Adobe Air hack)? I mean if this will not be possible at all with ARM MacBooks then my decision to buy the last Intel Mac (with free AirPods) would become a bit easier.

 

[deconstruct60]

So I have 2 more days to get a 2020 Intel MacBook Pro that comes with a free AirPod. However, I was trying to hold off as long as I can to get more details on the upcoming ARM models, but the window for the student discount & free AirPod will shut soon. Anyway, the biggest program for me to run and highly consider the last Intel MacBooks is a software called YNAB 4 (I refuse to use their sub services, so I'm sticking with their app forever).

Errr. this is a 32-bit macOS app. It doesn't necessarily run on x86 macOS Catalina either.

"... However, Apple announced that its newest Operating System, called Catalina, will not support 32-bit apps. YNAB 4 is most definitely a 32-bit app, meaning if you upgrade your Mac to Catalina, YNAB 4 will not open. ..."
https://www.youneedabudget.com/ynab-4-support-will-end-october-2019/

On the Intel MBP you may be able to run a pre macOS 10.15 instance inside of a virtual machine. You'll need to capture and build that VM image before you get to your 2020 system though.

But mixing that with Apple Silicon is a zero. Not going to work.

Apple wrapped "danger Will Robinson" alerts around 32-bit apps for years before macOS 10.15. macOS 11 isn't even remotely "hearing" about 32-bit x86 apps.

If I do decide to wait for ARM and forego purchasing a 2020 Intel Mac, do you think at some point there will be a way to run YNAB 4 virtualized (yes, this means also with the 64bit Adobe Air hack)? I mean if this will not be possible at all with ARM MacBooks then my decision to buy the last Intel Mac (with free AirPods) would become a bit easier.

Something like Sheepsaver ( a PPC emulator that can run super of pre macOS X images ) may show up eventually on the new Apple Silicon Macs. Some structure around the QEMU emulator may work smoothly at some pont for x86 macOS images.

However, You are past "You need a budget" and into the "You need a long term migration plan" zone.

If it is layered on top of Adobe Air ( i.e., Adobe Flash) that is even more doomed in 2021. Flash is "dead" everywhere ( including virtual images ) at the end of 2020. Might as well be sailing on the Titanic.

 

[ChrisA]

Errr. this is a 32-bit macOS app. It doesn't necessarily run on x86 macOS Catalina either.

"... However, Apple announced that its newest Operating System, called Catalina, will not support 32-bit apps. YNAB 4 is most definitely a 32-bit app, meaning if you upgrade your Mac to Catalina, YNAB 4 will not open. ..."

I think VMware Fusion will run 32 bit MacOS images. This is a lot of work to set up. You need to by Fusion 11, run it on Catalina then install High Sierra in the VM and then this 32-bit software in the VM.



Maybe there is newer software that does what YNAB does?

If you do buy a new Intel Mac, figure on it having a short lifespan. Apple is trying hard to move on and will obsolete the Intel Mac as soon as they can.

Maybe you best bet is to buy an older mac on the used market.

 

[johngwheeler]

So I have 2 more days to get a 2020 Intel MacBook Pro that comes with a free AirPod. However, I was trying to hold off as long as I can to get more details on the upcoming ARM models, but the window for the student discount & free AirPod will shut soon. Anyway, the biggest program for me to run and highly consider the last Intel MacBooks is a software called YNAB 4 (I refuse to use their sub services, so I'm sticking with their app forever).

If I do decide to wait for ARM and forego purchasing a 2020 Intel Mac, do you think at some point there will be a way to run YNAB 4 virtualized (yes, this means also with the 64bit Adobe Air hack)? I mean if this will not be possible at all with ARM MacBooks then my decision to buy the last Intel Mac (with free AirPods) would become a bit easier.

Perhaps you could try the web-based alternatives such as Intuit Mint or Every Dollar?

I'm in the same boat and assessing these two.

 

[Yebubbleman]

So I have 2 more days to get a 2020 Intel MacBook Pro that comes with a free AirPod. However, I was trying to hold off as long as I can to get more details on the upcoming ARM models, but the window for the student discount & free AirPod will shut soon. Anyway, the biggest program for me to run and highly consider the last Intel MacBooks is a software called YNAB 4 (I refuse to use their sub services, so I'm sticking with their app forever).

If I do decide to wait for ARM and forego purchasing a 2020 Intel Mac, do you think at some point there will be a way to run YNAB 4 virtualized (yes, this means also with the 64bit Adobe Air hack)? I mean if this will not be possible at all with ARM MacBooks then my decision to buy the last Intel Mac (with free AirPods) would become a bit easier.

It sounds like the only way you can run this version of that app is via a virtual machine for either macOS Mojave (or earlier) or x86/x86-64 based Windows. Since x86-64 emulation on Apple Silicon is a nebulous topic at best, I'd say that you probably want to just get the Intel 2020 model (I'd still go with the four-port model, but that's just me) as the odds of getting either macOS Mojave or earlier (being Intel-only) OR x86-64 Windows virtualized (emulated, really) on Apple Silicon Macs seems pretty slim, if not nil.

 

[deconstruct60]

....

If you do buy a new Intel Mac, figure on it having a short lifespan. Apple is trying hard to move on and will obsolete the Intel Mac as soon as they can.

Maybe you best bet is to buy an older mac on the used market.

a used Mac will have an even shorter support runway than the currently sold macs. All the "older" ( i.e., have been replaced) Macs have a actively running Vintage/Obsolete countdown clock already running. The currently sold ones do not.

As for Apple trying to push folks off of Intel Macs. There is over 100M of them at this point. That is very substantially more inertia that Apple had to push aside on the previous transitions. It is very likely not going to be as quick as the previous iterations. Piled on top of the several 10's of millions more Macs Apple has to push aside there is also the factor that in general the majority of classic PC form factor owners are holding onto systems for longer periods of time. The upgrade cycles are longer. ( partially because folks throw so much money at iterating faster on fancy smartphones and other tech).

If Apple pushes toooooo hard the number of folks switching back to Windows will go up to a bit higher than those jumping over( Apple probably looses some services revenues if the primary host system drops out of the Mac ecosystem because have pissed of the user. So it is a case that Apple now has the small revenue stream attached to that 2020 Mac that they did not have with the 2004-2006 Macs. ). On average Mac owners switch incrementally faster than generic average Windows PC users, but the trend line is generally up longer even inside the Mac ecosystem. Unless Apple radically drops the average system selling price on a Mac , the demand probably isn't going to very dramatically increase. It will be more than just a couple of years before Apple sells 100M ARM SoC Macs.


Apple probably is not going to give the last Intel Macs the absolute maximum support windows, but also not likely to grossly cut them off prematurely when still making money with them either.

 

[chabig]

If you buy a new Mac, you could just keep the old one for YNAB.

 

[MisterMe]

a used Mac will have an even shorter support runway than the currently sold macs. All the "older" ( i.e., have been replaced) Macs have a actively running Vintage/Obsolete countdown clock already running. The currently sold ones do not.

As for Apple trying to push folks off of Intel Macs. There is over 100M of them at this point. That is very substantially more inertia that Apple had to push aside on the previous transitions. It is very likely not going to be as quick as the previous iterations. Piled on top of the several 10's of millions more Macs Apple has to push aside there is also the factor that in general the majority of classic PC form factor owners are holding onto systems for longer periods of time. The upgrade cycles are longer. ( partially because folks throw so much money at iterating faster on fancy smartphones and other tech).

If Apple pushes toooooo hard the number of folks switching back to Windows will go up to a bit higher than those jumping over( Apple probably looses some services revenues if the primary host system drops out of the Mac ecosystem because have pissed of the user. So it is a case that Apple now has the small revenue stream attached to that 2020 Mac that they did not have with the 2004-2006 Macs. ). On average Mac owners switch incrementally faster than generic average Windows PC users, but the trend line is generally up longer even inside the Mac ecosystem. Unless Apple radically drops the average system selling price on a Mac , the demand probably isn't going to very dramatically increase. It will be more than just a couple of years before Apple sells 100M ARM SoC Macs.


Apple probably is not going to give the last Intel Macs the absolute maximum support windows, but also not likely to grossly cut them off prematurely when still making money with them either.

This screed bears very little resemblance to the Apple whose products I have used since 1989. This may be the way that Microsoft does things, or IBM, or Intel, or many other large corporations with large installed bases. You see many of these companies hold on to legacy products forever.

Since 1976, I have seen Apple introduce new products, sucky products, spectacular products. I have seen Apple introduce products that literally defined their product category. I have seen Apple withdraw products that were not doing so well. I have also seen Apple withdraw category defining products that continued to doing very well in the marketplace.

Steve Jobs made some comments that defined Apple's product philosophy for good or bad. One of his most memorable was "skate where the puck will be." Yes, Apple follows some markets. But the philosophy that defines Apple is to create markets that did not exist before or to dramatically redefine markets in ways that were not thought possible. I have never seen Apple try to force people to switch to anything. When Apple makes a switch, the customer may go along or go elsewhere. It is the customer's choice. It can be very frustrating when Apple ditches a product that I rely on. As much as I may want to replace my old AirPort wireless router, Apple thinks that its resources are better spent elsewhere. You want a LaserWriter? So what if they defined the category. There is no profit in them. HP can have the sale.

Apple's philosophy has helped build it it a $2 trillion company. It reminds me of Olympic gold medalist runner Michael Williams whose bolt upright running style set him apart from every other running. He was asked "Why don't you lean forward when you run?" Williams responded: "If I ran like everyone else, then I would finish with everyone else."

 

[ChrisA]

a used Mac will have an even shorter support runway than the currently sold macs. All the "older" ( i.e., have been replaced) Macs have a actively running Vintage/Obsolete countdown clock already running. The currently sold ones do not.

Yes, a used Intel Mac is even older than any new Intel mac. But maybe OK as you have less money sunk into it. Figure a new Intal mac has a 3-year life before they stop updating the OS. But and older Mac might have 3-year remaining too.

Anyone who depends on Apple products always is best advised to always have an eye in the "exit sign". Make sue you are not 100% locked in because Apple can and has dropped products. Make sure you have some plan for if Apple drops something you depend on. A big example was Aperture, a product used by many professionals that Apple dropped. So always have your data in a format that is exportable. Apple makes some good stuff but today but you never know if you will be available next year.

This problem with 32-bit unmaintained apps is a perfect example of the above. What if there is one you depend on and you find that can't run on any new Mac. Your option is to always have an older mac and never upgrade? OK, that works for a few years abut not 20 years.

The solution is to keep your data in a format that can be exported to other apps

 

[macsound1]

I have a 2013 15" rMBP that has been my daily driver since 2013. Recently upgraded the SSD because I wanted to install windows to play games. Works great.
My parents both have 2009 MBPs that I installed SSDs in and use them daily for work. Also works great.
I have 3 2012/2014 mac minis that are home servers and one connected to my TV. All do what they're supposed to everyday.

I love buying new tech as much as the next guy but why replace something that hasn't had any issues and suits you just fine. I recently replaced my car because it had almost 200k miles and I was worried that it might break down on a long trip. Not that I'm worried about my daily Mac having any issues, but I do have 4 other macs that I could use just in case.

Buy what you want that gets the job done. Your one stipulation about that app and it being 32 bit, sounds like you won't be buying anything new, Intel or otherwise.