VMware Fusion on Apple silicon

[mikeboss]

people interested in testing can apply to take part of the private tech preview.
as long as there's no public tech preview, we (people taking part) are not allowed to discuss it in public!

Microsoft Forms

vmw.re

https://twitter.com/x/status/1435710030389547012

 

[Gnattu]

Also:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1435715293691613184

 

[appltech]

Sound cool! Any news about bootcamp and Windows 10 on Silicon yet?

 

[Gnattu]

Sound cool! Any news about bootcamp and Windows 10 on Silicon yet?

This require collaboration between Apple and Microsoft to happen, which I personally think will never come.

 

[leman]

Sound cool! Any news about bootcamp and Windows 10 on Silicon yet?

Is almost certain to never happen, unless Microsoft (and Apple) do a 180 degree turn in their policies.

 

[loby]

This require collaboration between Apple and Microsoft to happen, which I personally think will never come.

You are probably correct…we have three major actors in this scenario: Microsoft, Apple and Intel. Each are competitors. Microsoft has to carefully think this out, but as history and $ has shown from their character, I personally don’t see Microsoft releasing licensing for Apple Silicone.

why? They don’t have too or there is no ＄ value for them to so do. Just like Apple prioritizing macOS on Apple hardware only, Microsoft now has the opportunity to do the same. There will be NO legal reason for them to change their stance.

unless Microsoft sees major profitability in allowing Apple Silicone to run Microsoft Windows ARM, if Apple chooses to continue “caring” whether Windows can be run on Apple hardware, the only solution is for Apple to continue to provide Intel Macs (at a minimum level).

That would be a win for both Intel and Microsoft….but…Apple has made it clear that their intention is to depart from Intel base systems and made a direct statement in regards to ARM Windows running on Apple Silicone (quote): “It is up to Microsoft now..”

So if you follow the dialog progression over the last year you can come to an obvious conclusion: No

So eventually as VMWare knows already and is why they can’t do much without getting hit hard by Lawsuits etc. from Microsoft UNLESS Microsoft releases licensing for ARM…move on…

What about other virtual apps like Parallels etc. only a matter of time and they will have to stop allowing virtual Windows ARM AFTER the Microsoft Insider Program (beta testing is over

Microsoft’s strategy is obvious…get Mac users hoping…then the letdown..then no choice but to either use Intel Macs or (what the strategy really is…even after releasing a “pirated” version of Windows 11 for download…Microsoft probably purposely did that..brilliant…

What is the outcome of all of this: MAKE anyone who wants to run Windows BUY a PC.

That will probably be the choices going forward legally…

 

[Tech198]

Is almost certain to never happen, unless Microsoft (and Apple) do a 180 degree turn in their policies.

You never know... Weirder things have come out of Infinity Loop..

 

[leman]

What is the outcome of all of this: MAKE anyone who wants to run Windows BUY a PC.

I don't think this is Microsoft's strategy at all. They don't care whether you run a PC, a Chromebook or a tablet. Most of Microsoft's revenue comes from office and corporate products (active directory and services tied to it), so that's what they want you to use. Their recent Windows 365 is a clear indication of this.

 

[loby]

I don't think this is Microsoft's strategy at all. They don't care whether you run a PC, a Chromebook or a tablet. Most of Microsoft's revenue comes from office and corporate products (active directory and services tied to it), so that's what they want you to use. Their recent Windows 365 is a clear indication of this.

Forgot about Windows 365...this is probably the nail in the coffin concerning licensing on Apple Silicone.

Yes, probably instead of buying a PC, they want to move everyone to Windows cloud. If I remember correctly, it has been the plan for more than 20 years (i.e. dumb terminals only).

Meet Windows 365 | Windows 365

Deploy and manage Cloud PCs with Windows 365, a Microsoft virtualization solution designed for hybrid work. Find the right Windows 365 plan for your employees.

www.microsoft.com

 

[leman]

Forgot about Windows 365...this is probably the nail in the coffin concerning licensing on Apple Silicone.

Yes, probably instead of buying a PC, they want to move everyone to Windows cloud. If I remember correctly, it has been the plan for more than 20 years (i.e. dumb terminals only).

Meet Windows 365 | Windows 365

Deploy and manage Cloud PCs with Windows 365, a Microsoft virtualization solution designed for hybrid work. Find the right Windows 365 plan for your employees.

www.microsoft.com

Again, I don't think that's the case. Windows cloud only covers a small portion of use cases. Microsoft doesn't care what platform you use, they just want you to be tied into their corporate ecosystem no matter where you are. Windows 365 is just an additional service to increase their presence for all kinds of users.

 

[jdb8167]

Again, I don't think that's the case. Windows cloud only covers a small portion of use cases. Microsoft doesn't care what platform you use, they just want you to be tied into their corporate ecosystem no matter where you are. Windows 365 is just an additional service to increase their presence for all kinds of users.

That would seem to indicate that Microsoft should eager to license Windows on Arm to M1 Mac users. Yet …

 

[leman]

That would seem to indicate that Microsoft should eager to license Windows on Arm to M1 Mac users. Yet …

Right? There must be a reason why they are reluctant. Maybe it's about providing support? ARM Windows is still a fairly experimental product, with very few supported hardware platforms, Microsoft might be reluctant to offer standalone licenses as then they would be legally liable to providing support.

It's even weirder given the fact that Microsoft is actively and eagerly cooperating with Apple to deliver a native NET 6.0 for Apple Silicon Macs. But of course, it's a different department...

 

[thedocbwarren]

Right? There must be a reason why they are reluctant. Maybe it's about providing support? ARM Windows is still a fairly experimental product, with very few supported hardware platforms, Microsoft might be reluctant to offer standalone licenses as then they would be legally liable to providing support.

It's even weirder given the fact that Microsoft is actively and eagerly cooperating with Apple to deliver a native NET 6.0 for Apple Silicon Macs. But of course, it's a different department...

Think it's more they are worried people won't buy a surface.

 

[mikeboss]

at around 8am Pacific time, Wednesday September 22nd, the Public Tech Preview of Fusion for Apple Silicon will be released.

 

[mikeboss]

Announcement: VMware Fusion for Apple silicon Public Tech Preview Now Available

 

[AHDuke99]

It's possible Intel has pressured Microsoft not to license ARM versions of Windows for third party machines. There really is no reason why they wouldn't given they make little revenue off sales of Windows. Microsoft cares about their subscription services (Office/Azure, etc), not Windows sales. I believe they are now doing what Apple does and offering all Windows upgrades for free.

 

[bobcomer]

given they make little revenue off sales of Windows.

They still make money off of Windows! Every Windows PC sold gives them a cut. OEM Licenses aren't free and just because us users don't see it, it's still there.

 

[leman]

It's possible Intel has pressured Microsoft not to license ARM versions of Windows for third party machines. There really is no reason why they wouldn't given they make little revenue off sales of Windows. Microsoft cares about their subscription services (Office/Azure, etc), not Windows sales. I believe they are now doing what Apple does and offering all Windows upgrades for free.

In 2019, Windows licenses constituted 13% of Microsofts revenue, twice as much as all revenue from gaming and almost five times as mIch as revenue from hardware.

IRFinancialStatementsPopups

www.microsoft.com

 

[kundanno]

It's possible Intel has pressured Microsoft not to license ARM versions of Windows for third party machines. There really is no reason why they wouldn't given they make little revenue off sales of Windows. Microsoft cares about their subscription services (Office/Azure, etc), not Windows sales. I believe they are now doing what Apple does and offering all Windows upgrades for free.

I don't think Intel is in any position to pressure Microsoft given where they find themselves these days. If anything this is Microsoft's own indecisiveness that may be playing out here.

 

[deconstruct60]

It's possible Intel has pressured Microsoft not to license ARM versions of Windows for third party machines.

There are 3rd party ARM windows systems.

Sept 2020

Acer Spin 2-in-1 Touch Screen Laptops | Acer United States

The mobile, all-day, 2-in-1 touch screen laptop with a built-in pen.

www.acer.com

January 2021

HP announces Snapdragon-powered Elite Folio convertible

The processor is now Arm, and the leather is now vegan

www.theverge.com

July 2021
https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/2/2...-go-laptop-windows-arm-snapdragon-price-specs

7 listed on this page

Snapdragon Consumer Software Solutions | ARM-optimized Windows Software | Qualcomm

Get game-changing performance for Windows apps with Snapdragon X Series Compute Platforms. Unleash performance and battery life, try now!

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The bigger issue for VMs is more so there is no "build it yourself" or. generic "whitebox" market where folks sell systems with no Windows present already. Microsoft mainly gets Windows 10 money from the system vendors as they ship out product.

When there are native Windows ARM systems that can run Hyper-V workloads that include additional copies of Windows then perhaps that would be a big enough motivator for Microsoft. Most of these Qualcomm systems have enough issues just running one instance of Windows; let alone multiples.

There is no substantive, conducive market to sell into here. Apple isn't all that motivated about this market so that isn't a "let's bet the farm" intro for Microsoft to start. First, they need to sort out how to do this with the system vendors who want to sell copies the "normal" way ( installed to boot natively from the factory ).

Intel has their fingers indirectly on the scales only in that they are throwing "deals" at system vendors to keep this ARM laptop a "part time" effort. A bigger blocker is Qualcomm being a bit more interest in selling radios as opposed to a reasonable laptop SoC. If they had spent the $1B cost of buying Nuvia on some laptop SoC development 3 years ago they'd have something better now. ( could have done a variant with the same X1 cores using in the 888 that fit a different power/thermal envelope. ).

There really is no reason why they wouldn't given they make little revenue off sales of Windows. Microsoft cares about their subscription services (Office/Azure, etc), not Windows sales. I believe they are now doing what Apple does and offering all Windows upgrades for free.

Apple isn't offering macOS updates for free. They are just charging for them upfront when you buy the system. You just don't get a choice of when you pay. And eventually Apple will cut your system off from upgrades. ( about when the money runs out).

 

[deconstruct60]

Again, I don't think that's the case. Windows cloud only covers a small portion of use cases. Microsoft doesn't care what platform you use, they just want you to be tied into their corporate ecosystem no matter where you are. Windows 365 is just an additional service to increase their presence for all kinds of users.

If enough folks clamor for some more affordable Windows Cloud pricing plans and Microsoft deploys Windows on Arm as a way to provision that would be some favorable trick down for VM licensing on smaller ARM platforms.

Windows on ARM is probably coming to Azure. Competition in cloud services space is in some ways further along than macOS on ARM is. It has been deployed longer. The only issue is when it expands into the Windows space. Microsoft offering a Windows provisioning service just furthers that along more. Over time there will be hybrid (private / public ) clouds with more ARM serves that will follow along same lines.

Microsoft is not trying to draw almost all of their money out of a one trick pony. Windows licenses is a big business that they'll want to grow. What doesn't make sense it to chase after a "partner" ( Apple) who has about zero interest in helping them .

 

[thedocbwarren]

Looks like no tools work just yet for Ubuntu. Seems faster than Parallels.

 

[loby]

Announcement: VMware Fusion for Apple silicon Public Tech Preview Now Available

This is surprising..! Was considering go to Parallels...Hope VMWare figures it out!

 

[Gnattu]

Looks like no tools work just yet for Ubuntu. Seems faster than Parallels.

Does open-vm-tools work?

 

[thedocbwarren]

Does open-vm-tools work?

Tried it, it does install and I don't see an issue, but no enhanced video or sharing available as of yet. They greyed out the tool install in the app itself. It's clearly a WIP and does in fact work. It's faster than Parallels for Ubuntu. I'll bench the two and see, but it's not up to par yet to fully compare. I have v12 licenses and I think they will stick to this license (maybe) so I'll keep both for different reasons. I use Linux more than Windows and I picked up Parallels for that and get Windows ARM as a bonus. Not so with VMWare, but for me, I don't care. Docker was a lifelsaver as well. Helped test this early on for Apple Silicon.