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Monkswhiskers

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 6, 2018
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Anybody done the lab test to see how it compares to Apple's algo?
I have been hovering around 45 but it jumped up to 50 the other day after a run, had a bit of cadence lock with the hr so should have been worse if anything. Now it is reading 43 after the most recent run.
 
I am using runalyze for analyis (recommend it heavily, it is free) since a few years and their VO2max estimate is very good, when it is calibrated. So is mine, and I would say it fits very good with a) what I feel, b) what I can do. Predicted my marathon time to about 1-2 minutes.

And interestingly, although I have my AW5 only since about 5 weeks and my training load was rather low, the VO2max estimate from the watch is only 1 point lower than my estimate in runalyze. (49 to 50). I am amazed.

What I do not understand though is that the estimate is changing only about every five days or so.
 
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I've wondered about the algorithm too. I watched the numbers change since I started the year pretty much out of shape. My average for January was 42.49. My average for November so far is 50.94.

So far, I've come to a few conclusions:

1. The algorithm comes up with numbers that are pretty close to other sources and consistent with race performances. As an example, using Jack Daniels's VDOT tables, my late August half marathon was worth ~49.5 and my recent 19:21 5K was worth ~51.8. (My early September 3:18 marathon was only worth ~47.8, but the weather was less-than-ideal and my fitness was still a work-in-progress.)

2. With the most recent updates to WatchOS, it seems to use averaging/smoothing in generating daily numbers, so there's a lag as fitness improves. (I saw a lot more daily variation over the spring and summer.)

3. It takes into account terrain, HR, pace, but not weather.

4. It ignores treadmill runs (e.g. the gap in my data below for 10/30) for understandable reasons.

The averaging is clearly visible in my graph of daily value for roughly the last month. There is an almost steady daily climb, even though it couldn't possibly calculate that based on the individual runs.

My last 5 runs:

10/31 - 12.01 mi @ 7:15/mile, avg HR 152 (flat terrain)
11/01 - 8.00 mi @ 8:12/mile, avg HR 131 (mostly flat terrain)
11/02 - 6.10 @ 8:12/mile, avg HR 145 (rolling terrain, over-dressed)
11/03 - 22.00 @ 7:50/mile, avg HR 149 (mostly flat terrain)
11/04 - 7.00 @ 8:58/mile, avg HR 131 (mostly flat terrain, over-dressed, in the dark)

There's no way, you could calculate 50.92 for the 11/01 run and 50.96 for the 11/04 run using just each day's data.

When I was in my best shape several years ago, my Garmin had a similar function, and it likewise came up with numbers (55-59 at the time) that were consistent with Daniels's VDOT tables. I want to be back into that range by the spring for the Boston Marathon. (I was, at least, able to qualify at my early September marathon.)

IMG_0513.PNGIMG_0514.PNG
 
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I am using runalyze for analyis (recommend it heavily, it is free) since a few years and their VO2max estimate is very good, when it is calibrated.
Thanks for suggesting Runalyze. I wasn't familiar with it. I just had the RunGap app upload 2,191 activities to it dating back to 2006. (The earlier years from Garmin data.)

Runalyze shows much too high VO2max predictions for me. It currently shows 60.53, and when I flip back to 2012, I see 69.42 for the day I ran the 2012 Salmon Marathon. (Some of the older runs didn't import correctly, so I don't know what it would show for some of my PR efforts.)

I think I'll try to clear all of the data and start from scratch with Runalyze, and see what it produces. Or maybe just import this year's data. Some of the other metrics it produces are interesting (Marathon Shape, Acute Training Load, Chronic Training Load, Training Stress Balance, etc.)

What I do not understand though is that the estimate is changing only about every five days or so.
That's probably the strong rounding/smoothing that I've seen evidence of lately.
 
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You will like Runalyze, I am sure. Good idea to start with fresh data. Key to a good calculation is to find a calibration factor. This takes some time and races or quality workouts.

There‘s a good community on Facebook. The authors (two runners) are also very responsive and knowledgeable. They can also delete your trainings if you want to start from scratch.

Good luck!
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Forgot to write: nice to have fellow runners with AW to discuss such things. I am coming from the Garmin ecosystem and I am new to Apple Watches.
 
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Forgot to write: nice to have fellow runners with AW to discuss such things. I am coming from the Garmin ecosystem and I am new to Apple Watches.
Agreed! Over the years, I had a Garmin Forerunner 201, a 305, a 310xt, and a 910xt. I still have the 910xt, and it still works fine, but it just seems incredibly bulky now. I bought an Apple Watch Series 2 several months after they came out (and added the GPS), and I've hardly used the 910xt since.
 
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Agreed! Over the years, I had a Garmin Forerunner 201, a 305, a 310xt, and a 910xt. I still have the 910xt, and it still works fine, but it just seems incredibly bulky now. I bought an Apple Watch Series 2 several months after they came out (and added the GPS), and I've hardly used the 910xt since.

Great. Was a 910XT user too. Great watch. For a GPS accuracy test I pulled tracks from all my watches till today and guess what? The 910XT produced by far the best GPS track.
Always was a tech nerd and love numbers so my first running device was a Nike footpod with a corresponding watch. The footpod was very big ;-)

Left the Garmin ecosystem as I am appalled by their sloppy software development practices. Hurts me as a software architect. Just waiting for a good price for a Wahoo bike Computer and then I am gone.
 
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