AidenShaw
macrumors P6
The v3 is a different socket and PCH, so both the round motherboard and the CPU daughtercard would need reworking. So far it seems like they're just using higher core count v2 CPUs.
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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)
- Thread starter Mago
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I Just read that part.
But 3000$ for 6 core E5v2/D500 still a lot money, still pricey, but at least Apple is reading the forums.
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Rigth, I posted this before reading thsy just will ditch the 4core E5v2 and D300 GPU and start from 6Core D500 fro 3000$.
So the MP7.1 likely will be based either on Xeon Skylake Or AMD Naples (Zen), Also AMD promised the Vega20 with focus on Compute for next year.
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TechCrunch said:
Actually I would be happy to see some blood.
[doublepost=1491317586][/doublepost]My personal wait strategy:
I had to update my iMac, so I'll stand with Apple, with an new iMac ASAP its available (and dont include soldered SSD), for few peroformance workloads I'll try a custom workstation on Linux with E5v4 and nVidia/amd GPUs and I'll try to hackintosh this, I don need it to run latest macOS but my toolchain ( I do a lot of OpenCL development, and i Miss CUDA).
Then I hope Apple Offers a modular Mac Pro with ISA GPUs and nVidia again as option (no way we can wait for vega 20 for 2h 2018).
But seems Apple will move to a Single Powerful GPU instead two, is what reads) maybe something like latest SFF gaming system.
sigmadog
macrumors 6502a
Okay. I guess I was wrong. There will be a new Mac Pro.
Today's news is the closest Apple has come (and probably will come) to detailing a roadmap for the Mac Pro. Since I'm not in need of a new computer today (or even this year), I'll wait to see what transpires.
The updates to the current model don't thrill me at all, and seem like old bones to toss the pro users. Still, some may bite on it.
I'm more interested in seeing the "re-thought" Mac Pro concept. If it's all about thinner and smaller, I'm definitely gone.
In the meantime, I guess I need to think about changing my signature line below.
Today's news is the closest Apple has come (and probably will come) to detailing a roadmap for the Mac Pro. Since I'm not in need of a new computer today (or even this year), I'll wait to see what transpires.
The updates to the current model don't thrill me at all, and seem like old bones to toss the pro users. Still, some may bite on it.
I'm more interested in seeing the "re-thought" Mac Pro concept. If it's all about thinner and smaller, I'm definitely gone.
In the meantime, I guess I need to think about changing my signature line below.
They said "Modular" and with consistent upgrades, I'm assuming that means a more traditional tower, since that's the most "modular" and "upgradeable" they can make it.
Anyway they just said it's still here:
"Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller via Daring Fireball:"On that I'll say the Mac Mini is an important product in our lineup and we weren't bringing it up because it's more of a mix of consumer with some pro use. … The Mac Mini remains a product in our lineup, but nothing more to say about it today."
The only definite thing about this that they say is that they want to have machine that is more modular, easier to upgrade and easier to update. And that you should be able to put the hottest GPU you need. I didn't see mention of multiple GPU.
Easier to update means Apple can more easily release updated version with new components, so hopfully they move to standard NVME SSD sockets like M.2 and normal GPU cards.
Given that the placement of the GPU chip on the PCB of a VGA card is not standard, that probably means that the GPU card should come with its own cooler, and at that point it probably means a standard PCI16x connector and normal VGA card.
I have been looking at mini-itx compact builds and there are some quite small case which can fit a single full size full power GPU like the GTX1080 (potentially even Ti), from about 7 liters, like the VCR shape like the Dr Zaber Sentry case and toaster shaped Dancase A4 (limited storage options, compact CPU cooler and PSU) to 12 liters like the NCASE M1 (bigger toaster, multiple storage / cooling option). Though the first two will not be quiet with the aforementioned GPU inside.
As they control the motherboard and case design, they could probably put a bigger / better, case-integrated heatsink for the CPU, have multiple slots for M.2 ssd on the back of the motherboard, and even possibly put the RAM and multiple M.2 slots on the back of the motherboard and have the CPU on one side with a extra wide cooler not having to worry about RAM clearance. The above mentioned cases use PCI riser to deport the GPU to its own chamber to gain in volume and cooling load separation because they don't control the arrangement of the PCI port on the motherboard.
These systems prove that if Apple limit themselves to a single hot GPU and a single possibly hot CPU it is still possible to make a small form factor case.
Easier to update means Apple can more easily release updated version with new components, so hopfully they move to standard NVME SSD sockets like M.2 and normal GPU cards.
Given that the placement of the GPU chip on the PCB of a VGA card is not standard, that probably means that the GPU card should come with its own cooler, and at that point it probably means a standard PCI16x connector and normal VGA card.
I have been looking at mini-itx compact builds and there are some quite small case which can fit a single full size full power GPU like the GTX1080 (potentially even Ti), from about 7 liters, like the VCR shape like the Dr Zaber Sentry case and toaster shaped Dancase A4 (limited storage options, compact CPU cooler and PSU) to 12 liters like the NCASE M1 (bigger toaster, multiple storage / cooling option). Though the first two will not be quiet with the aforementioned GPU inside.
As they control the motherboard and case design, they could probably put a bigger / better, case-integrated heatsink for the CPU, have multiple slots for M.2 ssd on the back of the motherboard, and even possibly put the RAM and multiple M.2 slots on the back of the motherboard and have the CPU on one side with a extra wide cooler not having to worry about RAM clearance. The above mentioned cases use PCI riser to deport the GPU to its own chamber to gain in volume and cooling load separation because they don't control the arrangement of the PCI port on the motherboard.
These systems prove that if Apple limit themselves to a single hot GPU and a single possibly hot CPU it is still possible to make a small form factor case.
What I've read is to emphasis in "Single GPU" as nned for most Apps that cnat split workload among two GPUs, so maybe the next Mac Pro will be another trashcan with an single powerful GPU and all new modular thermal core, instead a monolithic thermal core.
Since even AMD dont have capable High Power GPU is likely they are making room for nVidia GPUs.
Since even AMD dont have capable High Power GPU is likely they are making room for nVidia GPUs.
Congrats to everyone here from the MacBook Pro forum. Respect for keeping the dream alive.
askunk
macrumors 6502a
Sometimes it seems Schiller and Federighi are peeking over this thread 😀 Now they're also talking about splitting the high-end Pro market with an iMac Pro.
It might be that Apple will use a nMP 6,1 approach with the iMac pro (all SSDs, ECC RAM, higher-end Polaris/mobile Vega) and go for a full size, single (or double?) upgradable GPU chassis with the 7,1.
Mago, why do you say that PCI-E v4 will take longer? Just out of curiosity. 🙂
Skylake should be out in a few months and there are many eng. samples going around. Why are you ruling out Naples? I am not necessarily an AMD fan, but there is some history between AMD and Apple (all my cards, by chance, have been AMD so far, on Macs) and it gives 8 channel memory, higher core count, higher RAM frequency - for the time being - and lower price, allowing maybe a dual GPU at the same price of the nMP 6,1.
We all (uhm.. maybe some of us!) like nVidia cards, but since right now most of Apple dGPUs are AMD, it makes sense to think about a partnership with AMD on CPUs, above all when their (AMD) marketing is pretty much focussed on Apple-style users (creatives who play a little game now and then with Ryzen, and scientific and server users with Naples).
It would help Apple differentiate from M$ who's getting a bit on Apple's feet, with their Surface range and improve energy efficiency, which Apple cares a lot about for battery and noise related issues.
It might be that Apple will use a nMP 6,1 approach with the iMac pro (all SSDs, ECC RAM, higher-end Polaris/mobile Vega) and go for a full size, single (or double?) upgradable GPU chassis with the 7,1.
Mago, why do you say that PCI-E v4 will take longer? Just out of curiosity. 🙂
Skylake should be out in a few months and there are many eng. samples going around. Why are you ruling out Naples? I am not necessarily an AMD fan, but there is some history between AMD and Apple (all my cards, by chance, have been AMD so far, on Macs) and it gives 8 channel memory, higher core count, higher RAM frequency - for the time being - and lower price, allowing maybe a dual GPU at the same price of the nMP 6,1.
We all (uhm.. maybe some of us!) like nVidia cards, but since right now most of Apple dGPUs are AMD, it makes sense to think about a partnership with AMD on CPUs, above all when their (AMD) marketing is pretty much focussed on Apple-style users (creatives who play a little game now and then with Ryzen, and scientific and server users with Naples).
It would help Apple differentiate from M$ who's getting a bit on Apple's feet, with their Surface range and improve energy efficiency, which Apple cares a lot about for battery and noise related issues.
The Next Mac Pro will be the 7,1.
What Apple will offer this year is an cheaper 6,1 w/o new hardware and removing 4core/D300 options, but still the same model.
koyoot
macrumors 603
HBM2 GPUs will have very compact form factor. Of course, you still can make them "big", but the requirements for board sizes are smaller.
P.S. Expect something between form factors of 5.1 MP, and 6.1.
Current Skylake Chipset allows to use Xeon e3 on the same logic board traces, Apple couls use almost the same logic board design (C232 PCH fits perfect into Z270 pch socket) to offer a Xeon E3v5 iMac (hoepfully in Black or Space Gray), also load it with an AMD Vega GPU.
A Xeon Based iMac could be an very good signal for Pro users and a reasonable "wait for mac pro 7,1" interim machine.
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We now Feels Like Will Smith in " I'm Legend "....
askunk
macrumors 6502a
Sure. I didn't use the right wording. With "full size" I meant that the time for mobile GPUs or underclocked GPUs might be over. If I catch what Federighi and Schiller meant today is that they acknowledge the need for a product that can compete with the high end PC market, which the 6,1 didn't do. He talks about designing according to thermal conditions that today can be met with one card.
If I am not mistaken (you and many others here know much more than me) the current cards in the 6,1 go around 125W each. The new Vega 10 should be 250/275W. They might want to stay under the 500W total mark with the CPU to keep it quiet and won't offer a model with dual GPU, but it seems that nowadays with one GPU you can easily beat 2xDx00 even if put together (which never happens with the 6,1 on macOS).
flowrider
macrumors 604
Rumor has it that Apple is making a big push into AR. Maybe it dawned on them that you can't develop those systems or content for AR on an iPad Pro?
LOL @ the doomsayers. Some of you were just so damned sure that the Mac Pro was killed.
While the current "re-configed" offering is still overpriced and doesn't meat everyone's needs, everyone has got to be excited that Apple admited to their fault, and that we are not only seeing new Mac Pros next year, but Apple displays.
Apple is back on the right track. My 3,1 can happily limp along until then.
While the current "re-configed" offering is still overpriced and doesn't meat everyone's needs, everyone has got to be excited that Apple admited to their fault, and that we are not only seeing new Mac Pros next year, but Apple displays.
Apple is back on the right track. My 3,1 can happily limp along until then.
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Given today price drop (not really a spec bump IMO), do you think we will see the refurbished quad core and/or 6 core at lower prices?
If they dropped the 6 core price another $1000 to $2000 (or less) I might be tempted. Really nothing has changed, except slightly less in price.
Excited to hear that there will be a new Mac Pro. I don't see it being simply a smaller cheese grater though. They wouldn't need this much time to work that out.
If they dropped the 6 core price another $1000 to $2000 (or less) I might be tempted. Really nothing has changed, except slightly less in price.
Excited to hear that there will be a new Mac Pro. I don't see it being simply a smaller cheese grater though. They wouldn't need this much time to work that out.
Aldaris
macrumors 68000
Many of us were saying this is ridiculous 1200+ days since an update. If Apple doesn't atleast drop a hint by wwdc it is dead or might as well be.
As was pointed out earlier we are repeating 2012, where Apple "updated" the Mac Pro only to take down the "new" banner tag (after a week) because it was such a minor bump from the previous model-here we are with a spec/price shift waiting for the 7,1 model. It's still safe to say-and I think you'll find accurate Apple has been following its own tail with the Pro since 2010. Here's hoping they get it right.
Seeing it was marketing "ass" Schiller, I'm not sure how I feel; I mean it was marketing that gave us the late 2016 MacBook Pro with emojis, and killed off the estimated time remaining FOR ALL THE OTHER PORTABLES, rushed the device without the battery system they intended... so is Apple really listening to what people want? Or will the Mac Pro really be schiller'd (unless you prefer philler'd, or further "innovated out of his ass"?).
I do agree it's better than nothing, exciting to see them admit the fault as well as returning to displays.
Here's hoping your 3,1 keeps churning in the meantime.
Umbongo
macrumors 601
No one could have predicted this though, certainly not what they are saying, and the admission of failings.
aaronhead14
macrumors 65816
Guys, it's happening! We at least know the new Mac Pro is coming sometime next year! SO INCREDIBLE! And for those who need a Mac Pro now, the 2013 version is getting a price drop this week! SUCH GREAT NEWS!
fuchsdh
macrumors 68020
The weaknesses of the iMac for more "pro" work basically comes down to three things—no ECC RAM, if that affects you, no beefier workstation cards/non-mobile sourced cards, if that affects you, and throttling on very arduous GPU/CPU-intensive tasks, if that affects you. Creating an iMac Pro with a Xeon solves the ECC RAM issue, but I'm not sure how they give us a beefier GPU that can handle heavier loads without changing the chassis (like, say, making the iMac Pro enclosure basically akin to the 2011-era thickness across the entire computer.)
Also, the comparison computer to this hypothetical iMac Pro would be the Z1, which still offers weaker Quadro cards than what the current iMac packs in (although I assume given the thing is thicker than an iMac G5, it might have better real-world performance on long renders.) So I don't think GPU performance would be the biggest area they could improve.
As to the Mac Pro 7,1, looking at the classic casing, just removing the 5.25" bays and replacing the 3.5" bays with 2.5" bays and/or a blend of M.2/Apple flash points would be a pretty hefty proportion of the interior you could slim down without consequence. Whatever they come out with, it's definitely going to be smaller than the 5,1.
Also, the comparison computer to this hypothetical iMac Pro would be the Z1, which still offers weaker Quadro cards than what the current iMac packs in (although I assume given the thing is thicker than an iMac G5, it might have better real-world performance on long renders.) So I don't think GPU performance would be the biggest area they could improve.
As to the Mac Pro 7,1, looking at the classic casing, just removing the 5.25" bays and replacing the 3.5" bays with 2.5" bays and/or a blend of M.2/Apple flash points would be a pretty hefty proportion of the interior you could slim down without consequence. Whatever they come out with, it's definitely going to be smaller than the 5,1.
Vega tube Mac Pro is dead.
They were prepping it for launch (WWDC), but they couldn't make the thermals work, hence today's announcement. Ran too hot combined with the latest CPUs in that case.
Once they realized how screwed they were, they had to make today's announcements.
I would be surprised at this point if there was a prototype at all for what will be the 7,1. But at least they're moving in the right direction.