Waiting for modular Mac Pro 2019

[Macintosh IIcx]

Check out this extreme tower “iMac Pro” hackintosh build guide. This link was originally posted on Gearslutz by a DAW builder who also posted Geekbench scores of 4264 for single core and 70629 for multi-core.

https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/...c-pro-successful-build-extended-guide.229353/

Yeah, I have actually been following that thread on/off for a couple of months now! Still undecided, but it could be cool.

 

[-hh]

Last April is roughly when hackintoshing started going mainstream. I'm sure their data analysts picked up on a sudden surge of suspicious installs. Cue panic.

Well then, here's hoping to a big spike in 'suspicious' installs in April 2018 to pour more fuel on the fire.

What's rotten at the core of Apple is their need to differentiate their products in some way from everyone else, and maintain their growth/margins. Releasing a standard PC tower with standard expansion slots, even if "protected" with a T2 chip, wouldn't necessarily serve their interests. They don't want people endlessly upgrading 8-10 year old hardware with mass-market components. They want those people buying new systems after 3-4 years. The old cheese-grater Mac is the is the thorn in their side that they can't yet remove in order to stop the piracy threat.

True enough, but Apple could do a lot on their own to capture the follow-on ("incremental upgrade") sales by not trying to charge 3x street prices.

Creating a simple Mac tower isn't hard. What's hard is offering "modularity" in a way that Apple can completely control. Since those are conflicting goals, they're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Agreed, although it is a problem that they keep on having - - and discovering that open-ish architectures are the solution for when they write themselves into a corner. This didn't start with the Mac Pro, or even the G5 / G4 ... goes back to at least the CPU-on-a-daughtercard architecture of the 7500/8500/9500 from twenty years ago.

 

[filmak]

Tim Cook isn't being fired because at the end of the day investors don't care about the tiny market segment that is professional users. And Apple keeps making a metric ton of money.

Every Mac Pro thread is infected with comments that don't understand that pros aren't an important market segment for a company that sells tens of millions of phones a quarter, and frankly you should be happy Apple is reconsidering abandoning the area entirely, or just get a PC and stop the bellyaching.

But they have recently said how important are pros to them.
Did they lie? Don't tell me so!🙂

Anyway it's very easy to stop the Mac Pro line, why aren't they doing this?
Mac Pros may be a small percentage of their sales, but a vital one, and of course they are responsible for the shrinking of its share of their income.
A lot of people right now are buying, as a solution, used 5,1 or upgrading their existing ones.
So, the demand is there and opportunities are lost, many pros are switching to other platforms. Was it so hard to produce a workstation line, reasonable priced, as they have did in the past?

They still care and the existence of iMac Pro, Logic, FCP, and their statements this and last spring, are an evidence for this.
The presence, or not, of a Mac Pro line is not something to ask the investors about. Investors care about profit not the product line. Apple directors and managers are for this job, and they have made some obvious mistakes, if they do not care it is ok, but one thing is sure: when they will hit the wall, every one of them will care...

 

[singhs.apps]

I'm a professional user, you nitwit. I guess your reading comprehension is lacking. I'm just the person who's not demanding a multibillion company is failing and its leadership should be fired because they aren't targeting my interests above all else. The last thing Mac threads need is more pointless hyperbole.

If you make purchasing decisions based on what company management says versus their actual offerings, you're a fool.

While you yourself are talking the exact opposite of what the company you are defending is saying. It’s your reading comprehension that’s lacking. Go read those transcripts again. And I didn’t use the term ‘professional’ in my post.... Who’s the real nitwit here ?
If making purchasing decisions based on what the management is talking about is foolish category, then all of the studios, for whose benefits those meetings were publicised were fools too, according to your inference.


The last thing Mac threads need are pointless knee jerk reactions... your’s fall in the same category as the people you are blaming

 

[Naimfan]

Given what Apple has done with the Mac Pro, anything it SAYS should be automatically discarded until it DOES something, like releasing a new MP.

Apple has destroyed any goodwill it may have had by not providing substantive updates for the 5,1; for never updating the components of the 6,1; and for building the 6,1 while killing the tower form factor. Until it actually delivers a new MP, it cannot be believed on the subject. (Or, sadly, on many others.)

 

[Jethro!]

The "fickle" iToy chasers continue to make Apple boatloads of money, and they have yet to experience any meaningful contraction. Seems like your characterization is based more in being upset about your own wants rather than Apple's actual consumers.

People have been saying Apple is doomed over not making their machines upgradable since literally the Mac 128K, and it's been six years now since the rMBPs and the sky still remains firmly above us.

Yes, the iToy chasers are making Apple boatloads of money... for now. But Apple has forgotten who got them to this point -- the loyal and serious computer pros. We're the folks who stood by Apple in the mid-90's when they were barely hanging on by a thread. I recall being advised by even Mac experts not to go Mac "Because they won't be around much longer." Yet we did. Now we've been effectively abandoned, after having invested decades into the Apple platform. This is not Jobs' Apple (Computers <--remember that?) anymore. It's a different company with a different (read: worse) design philosophy. They've created new problems for themselves, so while the sky may not be falling yet, they've brought it a bit closer upon themselves.

 

[Aldaris]

Yes, the iToy chasers are making Apple boatloads of money... for now. But Apple has forgotten who got them to this point -- the loyal and serious computer pros. We're the folks who stood by Apple in the mid-90's when they were barely hanging on by a thread. I recall being advised by even Mac experts not to go Mac "Because they won't be around much longer." Yet we did. Now we've been effectively abandoned, after having invested decades into the Apple platform. This is not Jobs' Apple (Computers <--remember that?) anymore. It's a different company with a different (read: worse) design philosophy. They've created new problems for themselves, so while the sky may not be falling yet, they've brought it a bit closer upon themselves.

The “halo” effect is real, and it is an ecosystem-in many ways completion has caught up or even exceed apples current offerings in both hardware, software, and services.

My household has been using Roku over Apple TV for the last month, I don’t even know that it has really been turned on. There are many here that prefer Spotify over Apple Music... Siri is well Siri (your mileage will vary). When it comes to iOS, most of the youth look at it like they look at Facebook-their uncool, and for their grandma to share cat pictures. There are some significant issues (although in early stages) that have resulted from a “lazy” Apple. Even the iToy chasers were giving it to Apple for using the same design from the 6, 6S, 7, and fancy glass back 8...

Okay so the Apple Watch is convenient and the AirPods are fantastic, when it comes to computers, Apple has been asleep, with cutting edge tech companies not using/developing for the Mac because they don’t offer hardware that can support it (oculus) so while AI and Augmented Reality are pioneering what the future could be Apple is limping behind-sure they have one machine that can really do something (imac Pro)... the rest of the lineup has had modest “improvements” that some here would argue were regressive, whether its loss of ports and more adapters, questionable keyboard, etc.

We might be a few voices but it was us few that brought others, when we leave those we brought will come with us. The “halo” works both ways.

 

[vailr]

The "fickle" iToy chasers continue to make Apple boatloads of money, and they have yet to experience any meaningful contraction.

I consider Apple's "iToy" profits as mostly "filthy lucre" contributing to the U.S. vs. China $500 billion USD trade deficit, since all of those portable devices are assembled in China (even if some sub-components are U.S. sourced).
If Mr. Cook & company were to re-locate all (or most) of their iToy factories at least to North America, if not the USA, then the "filthiness" of their corporate profits would tend to waft away into thin air.

 

[Peace]

I consider Apple's "iToy" profits as mostly "filthy lucre" contributing to the U.S. vs. China $500 billion USD trade deficit, since all of those portable devices are assembled in China (even if some sub-components are U.S. sourced).
If Mr. Cook & company were to re-locate all (or most) of their iToy factories at least to North America, if not the USA, then the "filthiness" of their corporate profits would tend to waft away into thin air.

Waft away by way of declining profits due to costs.

😉

 

[fuchsdh]

Yes, the iToy chasers are making Apple boatloads of money... for now. But Apple has forgotten who got them to this point -- the loyal and serious computer pros. We're the folks who stood by Apple in the mid-90's when they were barely hanging on by a thread. I recall being advised by even Mac experts not to go Mac "Because they won't be around much longer." Yet we did. Now we've been effectively abandoned, after having invested decades into the Apple platform. This is not Jobs' Apple (Computers <--remember that?) anymore. It's a different company with a different (read: worse) design philosophy. They've created new problems for themselves, so while the sky may not be falling yet, they've brought it a bit closer upon themselves.

Companies are out to make money. They don't owe you anything for your years of loyalty, and you don't owe them anything as well.

The “halo” effect is real, and it is an ecosystem-in many ways completion has caught up or even exceed apples current offerings in both hardware, software, and services.

My household has been using Roku over Apple TV for the last month, I don’t even know that it has really been turned on. There are many here that prefer Spotify over Apple Music... Siri is well Siri (your mileage will vary). When it comes to iOS, most of the youth look at it like they look at Facebook-their uncool, and for their grandma to share cat pictures. There are some significant issues (although in early stages) that have resulted from a “lazy” Apple. Even the iToy chasers were giving it to Apple for using the same design from the 6, 6S, 7, and fancy glass back 8...

Okay so the Apple Watch is convenient and the AirPods are fantastic, when it comes to computers, Apple has been asleep, with cutting edge tech companies not using/developing for the Mac because they don’t offer hardware that can support it (oculus) so while AI and Augmented Reality are pioneering what the future could be Apple is limping behind-sure they have one machine that can really do something (imac Pro)... the rest of the lineup has had modest “improvements” that some here would argue were regressive, whether its loss of ports and more adapters, questionable keyboard, etc.

We might be a few voices but it was us few that brought others, when we leave those we brought will come with us. The “halo” works both ways.

[citation needed]

 

[Jethro!]

Companies are out to make money.

Making money is a consequence of providing services and products to others. Any company who sets out priority #1 is simply to "make money" is not one who is long for this world; those who understand that service is #1 has a chance not only to survive, but to thrive.

They don't owe you anything for your years of loyalty, and you don't owe them anything as well.[citation needed]

"Owing" not the matter. Treating loyalty right is. Understanding where you came from is. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice..." Flipping your loyal base the bird is STUPID BUSINESS. It permanently taints your brand. It has nothing to do with anyone "owing" anyone anything.

 

[zzzachi]

utter nonsense, this "pro workflow team" talk. apple is unbelievable.
this wont come out right, believe me.
apple should better concentrate on a pro-iphone and give up desktops.

 

[askunk]

Just recycled design, not something I expect from apple.

Well... I can't blame you for that. After all, Apple has just released its newest machine in an 8 years old case.

Why don't just fix the fan issue and recycle the cMP, as well? Please, Apple! 😀
[doublepost=1523376291][/doublepost]Anyway, IMHO, I think there are a few more reasons why Apple hasn't come out with a mMP in 2018:

* no new chips to set the mark on speed (even a change to AMD Epyc wouldn't give much boost to all Pro users, only to a niche), neither CPU nor GPUs, and beat the iMP in the low/mid performance BTO options. We may need to wait for some new Xeons or Epycs with higher ST specs.

* the need to design a T3 chip and a new architecture where some bottleneck processes can be dealt with and the CPU can be relieved of the burden

Finally, I think there are still chances that the mMP will position itself at the price range of the tMP, offering BTO options beating by far the iMP 18 cores with Vega 64. However, some base configs will cover the void of a non-crippled machine between the (new?) Mac mini and high-end mMP. 3.500/3.999 for the base machine, with performance close to the iMP base/mid config could attract all Pro users, not only super-pro videomakers and HPC scientists 🙂

 

[762999]

People who knows what a "pro workflow" is did exist inside Apple, otherwise the advent of the original FCP could not have happened. But then somewhere along the way, these voices lost their influence, thus the FCPX fiasco came. And Shake. And Aperture. And then a Mac Pro with no PCI slots. And then a MacBook Pro with only 2 ports...

I find it really astonishing to witness this to be honest. The company that brought GUI to the scene, thrived over decades of dedication to creative pros, harvested billions of cash as of now - actually has trouble finding what professional users need.

exactly! Do they also need a mini and imac workflows ? When you sell a product it's supposed to be common sense to listen to what your customers want and need. You can bring innovation if you want, but this is just an excuse. They stopped releasing new monitors, new routers. They soldered everything on the mini and lower end iMac. It sure didn't came from us.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Maybe Apple is waiting for AMD Navi. CPU is less relevant, nothing major is coming in that regard. Except lower prices.

T3 could control most i/o. From TB3 to PCIe 4.0 and ETH.

 

[Mago]

Well... I can't blame you for that. After all, Apple has just released its newest machine in an 8 years old case.

Why don't just fix the fan issue and recycle the cMP, as well? Please, Apple! 😀
[doublepost=1523376291][/doublepost]Anyway, IMHO, I think there are a few more reasons why Apple hasn't come out with a mMP in 2018:

* no new chips to set the mark on speed (even a change to AMD Epyc wouldn't give much boost to all Pro users, only to a niche), neither CPU nor GPUs, and beat the iMP in the low/mid performance BTO options. We may need to wait for some new Xeons or Epycs with higher ST specs.

* the need to design a T3 chip and a new architecture where some bottleneck processes can be dealt with and the CPU can be relieved of the burden

Finally, I think there are still chances that the mMP will position itself at the price range of the tMP, offering BTO options beating by far the iMP 18 cores with Vega 64. However, some base configs will cover the void of a non-crippled machine between the (new?) Mac mini and high-end mMP. 3.500/3.999 for the base machine, with performance close to the iMP base/mid config could attract all Pro users, not only super-pro videomakers and HPC scientists 🙂

Naive Anyone ?😵😕😛

 

[singhs.apps]

I think the delay could just as much be about pushing the iMacs and MacBooks slated for this year ( higher priority segments sales wise ) as it would be about going slow to ensure the design for the Macintosh plays well in the long term.

 

[Zarniwoop]

One thing that I like in tc Mac Pro and iMac Pro as well, is the quietness. To find a quiet workstation from other vendors is difficult. I really don't want a vacuum cleaner or hair dryer behind my neck in an open office.

So Apple could make a winner product, if it is upgradeable AND quiet same time. Even if upgradeable means Apple and Apple certified parts only, it would be a lot better option that the current not-upgradeable-at-all. I hope modular means modules that you can plug'n-play to the case instead of TB3 cords and external boxes.

Sure it would be nice to have a regular tower, but have 1% trust in that... but still, "there's a chance!"

 

[Chancha]

One thing that I like in tc Mac Pro and iMac Pro as well, is the quietness. To find a quiet workstation from other vendors is difficult. I really don't want a vacuum cleaner or hair dryer behind my neck in an open office.

So Apple could make a winner product, if it is upgradeable AND quiet same time. Even if upgradeable means Apple and Apple certified parts only, it would be a lot better option that the current not-upgradeable-at-all. I hope modular means modules that you can plug'n-play to the case instead of TB3 cords and external boxes.

Sure it would be nice to have a regular tower, but have 1% trust in that... but still, "there's a chance!"

The cMP zonal cooling approach was already pretty quiet. I still use a 1,1 as a file server just next to my seat, ear level. The loudest noise to come out of it is usually the hard disk head assembly seeking and drive rotation, nothing else. In fact when I was setting it up months ago, before putting any HDDs in there was only one SATA SSD with OS X on it, the machine was close to dead silent, fans are at the idle 500rpm.

I believe that even the mMP isn't a Cheese Grater carbon copy, as long as it does accommodate a varying number of internal configs, it will have to use cooling zones or some sort, instead of using a singular wind pipe like in iMP or tcMP.

 

[Supermacguy]

Count me as 1 more person not waiting any longer for the mMP. I'm putting new chips in my 2009MP (4,1->5,1) and giving it another couple of years of life.

 

[tomscott1988]

Count me as 1 more person not waiting any longer for the mMP. I'm putting new chips in my 2009MP (4,1->5,1) and giving it another couple of years of life.

I did this a number of years ago and it runs fine but its still not fat by todays standard. Multi isnt too bad on my 3.46 being 15k but single scrapes 3000 with the majority of programs still single core its not a smooth experience. Not fast enough for my professional work anyway.

 

[seclusion]

Yup, they likely could make a smaller version of the cheesegrater now, use the same iMac Pro color.
Same specs as the iMac Pro's i/o ports accept video needs more variations without adapters.
Ability to open up quick and room to add 3 more m2 blades internally, 256 ram and video internal.
I wonder if there will be a new usb c+.
Still can’t decide how many pcie (+) slots are needed, wonder if that spec would change.
I like the new Philosophy they are talking about and hope that it really comes to fruition.
The timeline seems extreme, so they should be able to hit this one out of the park.

 

[zephonic]

The cMP zonal cooling approach was already pretty quiet. I still use a 1,1 as a file server just next to my seat, ear level. The loudest noise to come out of it is usually the hard disk head assembly seeking and drive rotation, nothing else. In fact when I was setting it up months ago, before putting any HDDs in there was only one SATA SSD with OS X on it, the machine was close to dead silent, fans are at the idle 500rpm.

Just goes to show everybody is different. My 4,1 is distractingly loud, so much so I had to take it out of the control room. The same for the G5, but neither was as bad as the old G4. That was a proper vacuum cleaner.

 

[fuchsdh]

Yup, they likely could make a smaller version of the cheesegrater now, use the same iMac Pro color.
Same specs as the iMac Pro's i/o ports accept video needs more variations without adapters.
Ability to open up quick and room to add 3 more m2 blades internally, 256 ram and video internal.
I wonder if there will be a new usb c+.
Still can’t decide how many pcie (+) slots are needed, wonder if that spec would change.
I like the new Philosophy they are talking about and hope that it really comes to fruition.
The timeline seems extreme, so they should be able to hit this one out of the park.

I do wonder if there's going to be any legacy stuff in it. The iMac Pro retaining USB-A ports seems like a good sign the Mac Pro would have it too (use the TB3 ports as USB-C for now) with the gigabit ethernet uping to 10gE (possibly 2x as the 6,1 still had that.) But Thunderbolt 2 (and hence easier FW800 adapters) and 2.5"/3.5" bays? There certainly wouldn't be four of them in the case but having internal spinning scratch disks or (cheaper) flash is still a thing video editors use.

And yeah, I expect it'll be space grey no matter what.

 

[pat500000]

They are seriosly testing my patience.