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I really do not understand why anybody (save the paid-for technological evangelists who stand to win or lose with one platform or another) would vehemently support one platform over the other. I develop for both**. If you want to see Android "destroyed," and you're not a major AAPL shareholder or employee, you're an idiot.

As I'm neither, I have absolutely no desire to see one gain a significant leg up over the other. Competition drives innovation at a reasonable cost and benefits the consumer. Market domination only benefits the company selling the technology.

**I have to assume (and hope) Jobs' fury was largely or entirely directed at the similarities between the Android and iOS UI...because internally, they're very different.


I agree. IF Apple had been the only PC available around from the beginning without Windows, we still would be working on OS 9, at best.
 
Some of Steve's favorite words: "Good Artists Borrow, Great Artists Steal". Ms stole from Apple, who stole from Xerox, who stole from Douglas Engelbart...
 
Both preferable to windows phone

Personally I hope both iOs and Android continue to thrive, even if it is for the sole reason of keeping Windows Phone from getting larger.

Microsoft had their chance with Windows on the desktop but they produced a third rate OS which was, and continues to be, a buggy, flakey piece of c..p. They became the standard OS through dubious (ultimately found to be illegal) business practices.

they don't deserve to be rewarded again in the mobile space, and the users don't deserve to put up with c..p. the only reason MS are actually trying to do something different with windows phone 7 after years of little or no improvements or innovation is they actually have to because they got their ass handed to them on a plate by Apple and Google.

A dominant MS in the mobile space would see decades of the same situation we saw with Windows.
 
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Remel, I don't think you'll have to worry about Windows Phone being a dominant force -- ever. Apple has that beyotch locked down.

(I actually considered a Windows Phone for my second phone. It was the HTC Trophy, as I recall. Decent OS, but well short of iOS. I ended up with a 4s.)
 
There are a lot of people in this thread talking as if they knew Jobs or know Cook and Page.
 
Did Jobs really believe that he would own 100% of the market and no one else would come up with a touch screen phone? I mean if it hadn't been Google with Android someone else would have jumped into the market with a competing product.

Right, and I'm sure Steve knew that. Am I the only one to remember that at the original iPhone launch Steve congratulated the team and said something like, one day when all phones are like this you will be able to look back and remember this historic moment, etc. Did I just imagine it?

I think Steve had the foresight to realise that others would inevitably copy ideas from the iPhone (just as Windows copied ideas from the Mac, and the Mac itself copied ideas from the Xerox Alto). I don't imagine this really came as any surprise. In fact, I bet he lived in fear of it from the moment the iPhone was launched. For in addition to being very intelligent and insightful, he was also very emotionally connected to the products he (and the Apple team) created (almost like they were his children), and I dare say he felt violated to see ideas they deliberated over and carefully tweaked and reworked for many months just being snapped up by the competition.

See, many people who are not involved in creative work of some kind, just don't get this about design—how some of the ideas that seem obvious to everyone now were not that way originally. I'm not talking about the rectangular shape of the phone, or the square icons with rounded corners—the things everyone sees and thinks about when you talk about 'design'. I'm talking about so many little things—the way you unlock the phone, the edge to edge glass, the replacement of lots of buttons with a single home button, all the various touch gestures and how the OS responds to them, the removal of a user-managed file system, UI feedback like icons jiggling, pages subtly bouncing or stretching when you scroll to the end, etc, etc, not to mention the App Store and entire Apple ecosystem that goes with it—a thousand little deliberate design decisions which combine to give you such a dramatic departure from what other manufacturers were doing at the time. The competitors were always going to copy some (not necessarily all) of these ideas to try and deliver a similarly compelling user-experience. Steve, the business man, knew that I'm sure—let's remember that he himself once said 'we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas'. But the sensitive creative side of him couldn't stand to see others rip-off his own creative work.

His response to Android was an emotional one, not necessarily a completely well-reasoned one. I can appreciate that, but I don't share the view that Tim Cook is now somehow betraying Apple's vision by reconsidering the 'Android must die if Apple is to win' mentality. Perhaps a more level-headed approach is exactly what Apple needs right now.
 
But it doesn't seem like you're factoring in the amount of money that went in to developing and writing that software. Sure, a COPY might not cost much, but the initial program, the master, probably cost a fortune. They make that money back selling copies.

Free software and donations may work for some companies and some software, but not all. It's naive to think that all software should be free.

I work in video and I hear this argument all the time. "Why does it cost a lot to produce a video? A DVD costs less than a dollar." Well gee wiz. Maybe because you aren't being charged for the DVD, but the content that is on it.
I understand that.

What companies do today is first spend their money on R&D to make a master, then make the money back by selling COPIES.

What it'd be nice if they did instead is if they sold the MASTER, and then gave away copies for free. How you sell the master is a tricky thing, but there have been some advancements in that area (for example, something like Kickstarter). But there should be much more R&D spent on how to sell 1 master copy vs. selling individual copies of software.

(Obviously the master is much more expensive than a single copy... it's equal to whatever they earn, it should be similar to # of expected copies sold * price of copy.)

Software should strive to be as good as possible, but software with DRM is worse than software without DRM. It causes hassle for a legitimate user, including slowing down their computer, incompatibility issues, issues with installing on more than one computer, etc. etc.
 
There are a lot of people in this thread talking as if they knew Jobs or know Cook and Page.

While we may not have met Jobs, we can still hope to understand certain aspects of his personality by observing things he said, things he did, the ways in which he responded to certain situations, etc. Many of us have read his biography too, or other books, or seen documentaries, etc. In some ways I feel like I knew him better than most of my Facebook friends!
 
History repeating itself? Perhaps Apple's own history...


"Good Artists Borrow, Great Artists Steal" is something Steve Jobs said himself!
 
Wuuh Wuuuuuhh? Yeah. Okay. And Apple really didn't invent the iPad. It was Jonathan Ives, and some guy Steve Jobs used to beat regularly down in the cubicle department. Just a couple of guys who worked there.

Exactly. It doesn't matter who thinks of the idea. The company that designs and builds it matters.

I actually "invented" the idea behind tape (the kind that holds data) then realized that it was already being done. Really, the guy who first thought of it did no more than I did.
 
Microsoft had their chance with Windows on the desktop but they produced a third rate OS which was, and continues to be, a buggy, flakey piece of c..p. They became the standard OS through dubious (ultimately found to be illegal) business practices

You can always tell who the educated people are around here.

In the meantime, when are Macs gonna get a two button mouse? Derp!
 
The dude's just trying to sell books.

That said, Apple should fix iOS's own flaws like getting rid of crappy DRM on users' own app data, for starters.
 
Apple's soon to be problem appears to be Tim Cook.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jobs gave Apple a vision to carry for 5 years.

Part of that vision was to destroy Google's Andriod OS. Cook seems to not share what Steve wanted Apple to continue with.

I wonder if a person like Forstall might have been more of the right choice for Apple, if he was more seasoned.

I hope Cook isn't the 21st centurey Sculley, with his "play nice mentality". Apple can't afford that a 2nd time around. Cause their won't be a 3rd Coming of Jobs to the rescue.

I agree. The second Jobs died, Cook started overturning the Jobs ban on charity (safe for RED) with matching employee contributions and dropped the thermonuclear war with Apple's greatest strategic enemy. I would have preferred for Forstall to have been CEO. Cook is too compromising. Apple needs a General type at it's top, not a Chief of Staff type.
 
In the meantime, when are Macs gonna get a two button mouse? Derp!

Oh wow, you got us there! Oh wait, one has had the option of plugging in a two button mouse, and have had the ability to use one, going all the way back to the Classic Mac OS days.

Or, one could just press the option key while pressing down the single mouse button. No one was kept from the functionality of the menus.

Or, if you are a Wacom tablet user like me, just configure one of the barrel switches for a second button.

Or, if you've used the "mighty" mouse, you could have configured the touch surface for a second mouse button.

Yes, Apple added a "contextual menu" option in the Mac classic era and that would automatically be mapped for a two button mouse. Wow, that was more than 10 years ago.

Apple even designed an operating system that only needed one mouse button.

Now, Apple has an operating system that doesn't even need a mouse! Exclusive of one or two button mice! Imagine that!


Derp!
 
Jobs was the wealth creator, and now Cook will act as the wealth keeper.
As much as I would like Cook to go on with the thermonuclear war on Android, with his role as wealth keeper he will likely settle and make compromises.

But part of me continues to think that it would be fun to see Jobs truly try to destroy the Android platform with Apple's cash.

It could never be done. For every person who likes Apple products, you have another that dislikes the Apple, and for many different reasons.

Jobs lost the OS war when windows became the industry standard. For the exact same reasons Android is now able to gain a foothold into the mobile market. These being:
1) Cost of product
2) limited OS flexibility with hardware
3) Inability to partner with other industry leading companies

Apples business plan is not to build collaborative technology, but to dominate.
I like Apple products, but because of the above, domination is unachieavable.
 
It could never be done. For every person who likes Apple products, you have another that dislikes the Apple, and for many different reasons.

Jobs lost the OS war when windows became the industry standard. For the exact same reasons Android is now able to gain a foothold into the mobile market. These being:
1) Cost of product
2) limited OS flexibility with hardware
3) Inability to partner with other industry leading companies

Except that your narrative has no basis in fact:

First, this headline from "All Things D"
"iPhone Outselling All Other Smartphones Combined at Sprint and AT&T"

http://allthingsd.com/20120402/iphone-outselling-all-other-smartphones-combined-at-sprint-and-att/

Also, you blame Jobs for letting Windows *eventually* surge ahead. The Mac was released in 1984, Jobs was gone about a year later. There's about a decade where Jobs had no influence on what happened to the Mac.

Also, you say that for every person who likes Apple products, there's one who doesn't? 50% market share would be pretty sweet. There was even a story recently that about half of all households had at least one Apple product.
 
- Why do I need a third party app to open a documents? Why not built into to OS itself? This is a crucial feature. e.g. I have to have Quick Office installed to open docs, pdf, etc. On iOS, I can open those document in-app.

This is any more exclusive to iOS than receiving a text message is. You don't sound like a developer type.


- Different resolutions and screen size is a joke. As a developer, making games, you have a system of math to calculate where objects are on the screen, animations, etc. I have to manually do this for all the screen size I want to have my game run on? How much money I have to spend to buy all the different devices? Ridiculous. In iOS, I just know the size is 320x480 or 1024x768, and i'm good to go. I'll know my game will run just fine on all iPod touch, all iPhones, all iPads.

I thought it was elementary to determine screen/resolution sizes for doing any sort of graphics programming and making calculations accordingly. I learned that when I was a kid. It is terrible programming practice if you create code specific to a given resolution or screen size.

- IDE: what's your choices? Eclipse or others --- lol. Xcode and AppCode and even Visual Studio run around the stupid and unstable Eclipse.

Eclipse does suck, I agree.


The bottom line is that mobile phones can be used as tools because they are mobile computers.

I use a Jailbroken iPhone. That's not an Apple iPhone. An Apple iPhone is a consumer product and entertainment device. A Jailbroken iPhone is like an Android - actually usable if you're a professional.
 
Only following your lead.

And completely missing the point, unfortunately.

I use a Jailbroken iPhone. That's not an Apple iPhone. An Apple iPhone is a consumer product and entertainment device. A Jailbroken iPhone is like an Android - actually usable if you're a professional.

Actually, I get plenty of professional usage out of my currently not-at-all jailbroken iPad. It's an excellent device for taking notes, doing quick edits, and generally keeping track of my day. I can remote into any PC I need to, and even keep track of security cameras through it. It even has access to a scaled back but still capable rev of Photoshop to do some light photo editing.

As is, the iPad is an excellent device for professionals. So why would I want to jailbreak it? Well...mostly to play old DOS and Nintendo games. Very professional. Indeed.
 
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