Want to change my 2012 Retina 15" but...

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by iBug2, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. iBug2 macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    #1
    I want to switch to 13" models for portability and price. And it seems like a waste to buy a slower computer 5 years after. 4 Core i7 will be replaced by a 2 Core i5 or i7, even in best case multicore score in Geekbench is 30% slower than mine. Single core performance will be slightly better, faster SSD and slower GPU because no dedicated in 13".

    The only way to actually upgrade is to keep 15" and pay extra for the touch bar, which I have no use of.

    Did anyone make a switch from 15" to 13"?
     
  2. sunapple macrumors 65816

    sunapple

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    #2
    Portability means concessions, so either go with 13" or go with maybe the 2015 or 2016 15" if you can get a good deal somewhere.

    What matters too is what you use it for...
     
  3. UBS28 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    #3
    Get a 12.9 iPad Pro on the side rather than buying a slower 13" rMBP. Atleast it's something different and a nice addition to the 15" rMBP.
     
  4. jerryk macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    #4
    What do you do with your computer? And would those tasks be effected by a slower computer? Also, would that tasks be more enjoyable or easier to do with a smaller computer or tablet.

    Focusing on benchmarks is IMHO not a good idea. Focusing on usage is better.
     
  5. A7ibaba, Aug 20, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017

    A7ibaba macrumors regular

    A7ibaba

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Location:
    Sweden
    #5
    I did. From late 2011 15" with 512 SSD + 1 TB HDD and 16 GB RAM. I bought 13.3" non touch bar 2017 8 GB Ram and 128 GB SSD. What can i say. That old one has died 3 times because of GPU.Third time when they replaced motherboard i sold him and bought this one. And tbh,im not regretting. For files I'm using external SSD 512 GB on TB3 connection and currently using 35 GB of 128 on primary drive. When im doing something I'm not worried about temperature or will it die. Also resolution is much better and screen is pure upgrade over 2011.I abandoned dGPU on Macbook pro because all will die :p ,therefore all 15" is history for me. I will not make same mistake again.

    I didn't noticed any speed decrease,just opposite. Its because of cpu instructions probably. Single core is 1500 points better and multicore is on pair. Iris pro 640 is miles away better than that cursed AMD 6750M.
     
  6. iBug2 thread starter macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    #6
    Yes but in your case your computer was a bad batch, mine did not die once, battery is at 78% which is still ok, no issues with GPU or CPU or RAM. I want to buy a new one because my father needs a laptop and he wants mine since he cannot deal with a USB-C only computer at the moment. I already have a retina, so screen wise I won't be getting a huge upgrade, yes the 2017 screen are bright and color is better but I'm not a professional photographer. I mostly use my Macbook Pro for web browsing, watching movies, spreadsheets, some code compilation and gaming every now and then.
     
  7. A7ibaba, Aug 20, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017

    A7ibaba macrumors regular

    A7ibaba

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Location:
    Sweden
    #7
    I dont know about bad batch but i know that Apple now has replacement program for 2012 and 2013 models like with 2011,2010,2009 with faulty nVidia dGPU. Forums are full of angry people with dead retinas from 2012 and 2013.I really don't want to think about that. Peace of mind.And if i want GPU power i will get external GPU over thunderbolt 3 in High Sierra.
     
  8. sunapple macrumors 65816

    sunapple

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    #8
    13" is fine for your use, unless you want to spend that much more money just to be able to play graphic-intensive games.

    Just to prevent future confusion:

    iGPU = integrated GPU, e.g. Intel graphics integrated with processor
    dGPU = discrete GPU, e.g. NVIDIA / AMD graphic cards
     
  9. iBug2 thread starter macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    #9
    Also Apple has terrible pricing on these at the moment.

    Look at the 13 Config:
    • Touch Bar and Touch ID
    • 3.5GHz dual-core 7th-generation Intel Core i7 processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.0GHz
    • 16GB of 2133MHz LPDDR3 memory
    • 512GB SSD
    • Intel Iris Plus Graphics 650
    This is for 2500$

    And the 15 Config:
    • Touch Bar and Touch ID
    • 2.8GHz quad-core 7th-generation Intel Core i7 processor, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz
    • 16GB 2133MHz LPDDR3 memory
    • 512GB SSD storage
    • Radeon Pro 555 with 2GB memory
    This is 2600$.

    Dedicated GPU, 4 Core i7 instead of 2 core i7, same SSD, same Memory, and 15 inch instead of 13 inch, only 100$ more expensive. Compared to that 15 inch config, the 13" should be at least 400-500$ cheaper imho.
     
  10. M5RahuL macrumors 68020

    M5RahuL

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2009
    Location:
    Colorado
    #10
    Do you have a use for the Quad Core ? If yes, then the 13" may not suffice.. If not, then the 13" is a great option!
     
  11. jerryk macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    #11
    That program was terminated a few weeks ago.
     
  12. lax28 macrumors regular

    lax28

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Location:
    New Jersey
    #12
    Similar boat. Want to update my 2012 15" rMBP. I am looking at a 2017 13" for the portability, but after I configure to have 16GB and 1TB the price difference between the 13 and 15 is very minimal. To be honest the biggest hold back is actually the track pad. I've played with both in store and the size of both track pads are big, but the 15 on is some much bigger it is annoying in store and I'm afraid I will hate it. All else aside for the small difference, I would normally opt for the 15 and deal with being less portable, after all I've been using a 15' for the last 5 years.

    Then again, my current rMBP is still working so maybe I'll just wait until it really must be replaced and by them they may be updated to the 8th gen chip.
     
  13. Eric8199 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    #13
    I had the same dilemma. I ended up going with the 2017 15" and while I've only had it a couple days, I love it. No regrets. This thing is a rocket, and the size of the trackpad is fine. I do use a Magic Trackpad at home though, so I'm used to a bigger size. Palm rejection is great though. I feel like I made the right choice.

    I had the advantage of a 2016 13" through work, and could see the speed issues for what I do. It helped me choose the 15".
     
  14. lax28 macrumors regular

    lax28

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Location:
    New Jersey
    #14
    If I get the 13" I will get the 3.5 i7, 16GB ram and 1TB because this ends up being around 2700 after any discounts I've realized I can get the 15" with a 2.8 i7, 16GB ram and 1TB for about 200 more, 100 more for computer and higher priced apple care.

    My laptop is my only/main computer, I had always had 12 and 13 inch models going all the way back to my the PowerBook days, mostly because my price limit was always under 2,000. However 5 years ago I got an amazing deal on the 15" MacBook Pro open box at Best Buy. Spent a little over 2,000 with taxes for the 2,800 model. This was my first experience with the bigger screen. Since it was the rMBP it had same weight as the 13" it was replaceing.

    Now that it is time to start considering something new, I am looking at both sizes. I know since my laptop goes to and from work daily more portable is a plus, but smaller screen a minus.

    I feel if I buy the 13" I am being stupid for spending that much on a 13". My habits due make the track pad a possible issue, I find (limited time playing at Apple Store) the 13" track pad to be big but tolarable as I have all four hot corners set up and use all the time. If the 15" track pad was same size as 13" it would be no brainer but it is bigger yet and in store it annoyes me right away and either get false clicks, don't get clicks I want on first try and getting to corner for not corners is not a easy swipe anymore.

    Anyone with similar use age patterns to mine with track pad able to weigh in on how the adjustment is or did you have to change your usage patterns?

    Also, my usage doesn't include gaming nor coding. Does anyone think there would be any speed difference between the 3.5 i7 (dual core) and the 2.8 i7 (quad core)? Anyone having used both machines able to weigh in on differences between speakers and sound? Since I know the speaker holes are mostly cosmetic, it wouldn't surprise me to find that they have same exact speakers.

    Thanks for all the help and opinions that may help my decision.
     
  15. english_mac_in_ny macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    #15
    There always have been a few hundred dollars difference in price between 13" and 15" - why would it be stupid to get the 13" because it is only 200-300 dollars less than the 15"? If the mobility is your priority and if you have an external screen at home, get the smaller display. If you need the 15" and you accept carrying the bigger one around, then get that one (15" isn't actually that much heavier, but it's bigger and wouldn't even fit in the bag I use for my daily commute).

    At least with Apple you get 16:10 displays, they are the only ones still offering them and thus a 13" Macbook has a bigger screen than any other 13" laptop. I have a 13" and a 15" next to me and I honestly don't care about the difference so much, I can set the smaller one to the same high resolution of the bigger one. So the same content fits, it's just all a bit smaller.

    The only way to save money is to get a model in a store instead of buying it from Apple. It's usually 150-400 dollars off the original Apple pricing, a few months after the release of a new model. Right now the prices for 2017 models are starting to drop. The only issue is that not all configurations are always available.

    For the trackpad you should install (on any Macbook) BetterTouchTool, it allows some tweaking and for me it makes the big touchpads almost as easy to use as the smaller older ones. But yes, the 15" one is ridiculously sized, while the 13" is perfect. At least with the new ones I can click anywhere with the same required force and the button can't get stuck as it happened with my older Mac. Everything has tradeoffs and overall I prefer the newer touchpads.

    For speed difference, the 13" just lacks those two additional CPU cores. When I edit photos, I notice it a lot as both cores on the 13" will be maxed out and the Mac will slow down, the Adobe software will start hanging annoyingly for seconds, and depending on the task even minutes at a time. On the 15" the CPU is rarely fully maxed out under those conditions and I will barely notice any slowdowns.

    Once the 2018 MacbookPros with 4 CPU cores in the 13" model (and 6 cores in the 15") are released, I will switch to a 2018 Mac, definitely.

    But the single core performance is amazing, half of my applications don't use multiple cores and that half is much quicker in everything. (And the multicore half is slower. So it goes.)

    Can't say anything about the speakers, only my 13" is a 2017 model. Those speakers are great, in any case. They are among the best I have ever heard on a laptop, especially for the small 13" size. And Apple used to have about the worst speakers.
     
  16. Trey M macrumors 6502a

    Trey M

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Location:
    USA
    #16
    Tbh it seems like the main reason you're looking to go to a 13'' model is the price. It sounds like you as an individual definitely prefer performance benefits such as the dGPU or Quad Core versus portability. I feel like you're looking to find a way to happily settle with the 13''.

    Maybe the best thing to do is look at getting a brand new 2016 15'' model from B&H Photo or Adorama. Some of the discounts are significant and you can probably get a well specced 15'' 2016 model for the same as you would pay for a 2017 13'' model. Plus a lot of those sites don't charge tax so that's $200+ savings right there.

    Not trying to force you to choose the 15'', just sounds like that's what you really truly want.
     
  17. iBug2 thread starter macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    #17
    I'd get the 13" for portability if it's price wasn't so close to 15". It sounds like a really bad deal to get a 13" with dualcore and no dGPU only 100$ cheaper than a 15" with quadcore and dGPU. I know I don't play much games with my laptop but it's great to have a dGPU for the times I want to. And quad core is a lot faster than dual core.
     
  18. Trey M, Aug 22, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017

    Trey M macrumors 6502a

    Trey M

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Location:
    USA
    #18
    Agreed the prices are much closer than they probably should be....I personally don't think the TB 13 inch model makes a lot of sense, given how CPU performance gains are minimal in the TB model (28W) vs the non-TB model (15W). Many tests have shown that real world performance between the 2 is minimal thanks to fantastic Intel power management and limited throttling. To me, the choice should really be between the 13'' non-TB and the 15" since you just don't get the same bang-for-the-buck with the 13'' TB model.

    Basically it will be a "bad deal" anytime you compare the 13'' TB to the 15" model.
     
  19. english_mac_in_ny macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    #19
    When I compare prices here in Europe, the cheapest 2017 13" with the touchbar is 1750 Euro, while the 15" starts at 2350 Euro. That is a fairly big 600 Euro (700 dollars) difference. In fact, I consider the 13" with touchbar the better deal, as it features the same quality components (display, force trackpad, kaby lake cpu...), just smaller.

    It does lack 2 cpu cores and the dedicated graphics card, but not everyone needs a quadcore cpu and the dedicated graphics have proven to often be the source of defects (15" MacbookPros 2007, 2008, 2011, 2012, 2013... that is a lot of laptops with series defects caused by the dedicated graphics) and with the more and more powerful Intel graphics it isn't important for all users to have that additional power (especially since it cuts down the battery life).
     
  20. Trey M macrumors 6502a

    Trey M

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Location:
    USA
    #20
    I guess the point I'm making is you don't get bang for your buck with the 13" TB model. All your counter arguments to me recommending the 15 also apply to the 13" nonTB model (dedicated GPU, 2 cores, etc)..which furthers my point.

    You have to spend a significant amount more to upgrade from the nonTB 13" to the touchbar model. Obviously some people just want a touchbar and are therefore willing to spend more. However, if you add 16GB to the 13 inch TB model (which is included by default in the 15), the delta is only $400. For $400 more, you get 2 more CPU cores, dGPU, larger screen, larger trackpad, better speakers, etc. Again, not the bang for buck you'd expect going with the TB 13.

    Also, yes Apple notebooks have had documented issues in the past with dGPUs, however I don't feel this is justification for recommending a different model. The likelihood of this occurring to any given user is low and typically Apple has taken care of these customers, even if it was a little later than it should've been.
     
  21. english_mac_in_ny macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    #21
    Apple never took care for me, they replaced my failing 2007 one three times over the years and eventually I threw it out as I couldn't justify losing even more time with it being under repair. They just put in faulty logic boards again. To turn this around, in the last 10 years, only the 2009, 2010 and presumably 2014 models are guaranteed to be without a series defect. For 2015/16/17 it is too early to tell. That is a very bad record.

    I see, you compare it to the 13" without Touchbar. As someone who needs all 4 ports despite having a dock, that model never occured to me. If you can live with two ports and a slightly noisy fan, then you can indeed save a good amount of money. But not everyone needs 16GB and with 8GB only, there is still more than 500 bucks separating the 13" with the bar from the 15" model.
     
  22. lax28, Aug 25, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017

    lax28 macrumors regular

    lax28

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Location:
    New Jersey
    #22
    I just pulled the trigger and ordered the 13" MBP fully maxed out. (3.5 i7, 16GB ram, 1TB SSD). Yeatersay I beginning to actually lean the other way and go with the 15" (4GB dGPU and 1TB SSD) but when I got up this morning the 13" 2017 model I ordered was on the refurbished Apple Store. I'll take the 15% savings and given I still do have the 14 day return policy should I not like it or think it is too small coming from my old 15" 2012 rMBP.




    (Edit for spelling errors.)
     

Share This Page