Warning: deleting iOS Music app deletes your Music library

Discussion in 'iOS 11' started by simonmet, Feb 7, 2018.

  1. simonmet, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2018

    simonmet macrumors 68000

    simonmet

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Location:
    Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
    #1
    Hey guys,

    I'm *never* melodramatic, but get this: I just deleted the default iOS Music app from my phone (7 Plus 256) running the latest version of iOS (11.2.5, not beta software) because it's by most accounts pretty crap, my free subscription to Apple Music is about to expire (and I have no intention of ever paying for that service), and I much prefer my third-party music player - and it wiped my entire (personal) synced music library from my phone; over 120 GB!!! WTF!!! Just to be clear: these are not Apple Music tracks and I have never used iTunes Match. They are my own library of songs ripped from CD or bought by me personally!

    Luckily I have access to the library so I can re-sync it, but I don't usually so in that case I would've been royally screwed! This is the kind of ******** that will make me switch platforms, and you know what Apple: it's not as hard as you might think. Suddenly a 256 GB (or more) SD card with my music and movies that I can add to and delete from any time without your buggy iOS or Mac iTunes software doesn't sound so bad. Oh, but what's that ... you removed SD card readers from your laptops? How convenient!

    iOS 11 is an unmitigated disaster. Here's a simple graphical error they haven't even fixed by 11.2.5; never mind all the other bugs, some of which I reported months ago but haven't been fixed. Oh and syncing my music to the phone with the latest version of iTunes on Mac won't work with a near new officially-licensed lightning cable by reputable brand Cygnett but does with an old Apple lightning cable. Funny that aye?

    WTF is going on at Apple? Don't be evil!
     

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  2. Ritsuka macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2006
    #2
    Why shouldn't it delete the content? It does delete the app data like it does for all the others apps when you delete them.
    And if you don't have a backup of your data, it means your data is not important.
     
  3. Mammut macrumors member

    Mammut

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    #3
    Just to sum this up: You've deleted the music player from your phone and you are wondering now, that the library of this deleted music player got also erased?

    No more words needed... :rolleyes:
     
  4. -BigMac- macrumors demi-god

    -BigMac-

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    Melbourne, Australia
    #4
    i didnt even read OP. just reading that summary is enough tho, and thank you for saving me 2 mins of my life <3
     
  5. simonmet, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018

    simonmet thread starter macrumors 68000

    simonmet

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    #5
    Um, no, it shouldn’t! It never did this before - even recent versions of iOS 11! If Apple thinks music should only be through their own app then why do they allow third-party music players that allow access to the iTunes music library on the App Store?

    This just teaches me to beware of Apple’s music app and to never install it again!
    --- Post Merged, Feb 7, 2018 ---
    Actually, yes! This is a pretty significant recent change in behaviour that wasn’t in the least communicated.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 7, 2018 ---
    This should be a good thread for blocks.

    Just for anyone else in my situation - say who might travel a lot - this is a word of significant caution.

    Or maybe I shouldn’t try to help the community?

    I’m not bothered by Apple fanboy defenders. Look at my post count, join date and upvote count. I’ve been using Macs probably since way before those defenders who couldn’t even be bothered reading my post but felt the need to defend Apple anyway.

    Edit. Been using Apple computers since 1986! First family Mac: 1993. Number of Macs owned: about 10. First iPhone: the first that was available in Australia; 3G.

    I *was* a fanboy. Now I’m a responsible consumer.
     
  6. Mammut macrumors member

    Mammut

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2015
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    Frankfurt, Germany
    #6
    I'm not defending Apple in any way - but for me it's just logical, that deleting the music app causes also an erasure of the connected music library. So for me its just not the big deal that it seems to be for you. As @Ritsuka mentioned, the music library is just app data of the music app. I was not aware of the fact, that this was handled differently in older iOS versions but nevertheless, correct me if I'm wrong, it shouldn't be a big deal since the library on your iPhone is mostly not the only instance of your music library and you can recover it easily from iTunes, your iCloud Music library or any other kind of backup.
     
  7. simonmet, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018

    simonmet thread starter macrumors 68000

    simonmet

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    #7
    Hi Mammut,

    Thanks for your more reasonable and decent response compared with those immediate and snarky Apple-defenders above, but let me retort and further explain or justify how significant a change this could be for some users.

    You may be right that it’s not as recent as I initially suspected, possibly only a new iOS 11 “feature” rather than a recent 11.2.x change. But the fact that it’s new to me, a someone power user, means it also must be new - and potentially problematic to other people. Apple has a customer base of millions.

    Second, let me offer something about risk. Risk is generally understood to be likelihood times impact. The impact may be low for most users who have ready access to a Mac or other computer to sync their iTunes library, but for myself and a small proportion of users who don’t the impact is *massive* and the likelihood is not as low as you might think either (see below)! Let me offer a few cases in which you might not be able to re-sync your library:

    * you sold or no longer own a computer in which to sync your library; I’ve gone a year without owning a Mac and having access to my library stored on a Mac-formatted drive. What isn’t a big deal for you could be a very big deal for some users;
    * you travel for long periods of the year - such as working remotely or in other countries without access to your library;
    * you don’t have access to your library because it may be on storage devices in storage if you’re moving or otherwise; and
    * many other similar cases

    For these users how would you feel if you were travelling overseas, perhaps even accidentally deleted the iOS Music app (this has happened MANY times for me with other apps) and then suddenly your entire music library is gone???

    Let me offer something further about risk and courtesy: how about before deleting 120 GB of music you give the user at least some kind of indication that you’re going to do this???! Perhaps even a couple of “Are you sure” confirmations?

    Third, if a music library is tied to the iOS Music app, why does it let me sync this music to the phone without the app installed and subsequently play it through other players? This tells the user that the music is *NOT* in fact tied to the app. It’s therefore logical to assume that deleting Apple’s Music app won’t delete your library. Conversely it’s illogical and unfriendly to delete delete data *under any circumstance* without expressly telling the user you’re going to do so. Does this mean if I delete the “TV” app it’s going to delete all my synced movies too? I can bet the app won’t tell me if it does!

    Fourth, this whole thing demonstrates what Apple can do with its proprietary software. It’s why I would NEVER buy a HomePod that lacks any kind of input other than through Apple software. This behaviour is anti-consumer. And designed to engender lock-in and dependence.

    I’ve calmed down somewhat after re-syncing my phone and a couple of glasses of Chardonnay but let me tell you this; if I was on a plane or overseas or working remotely or any of the other cases I described above and I suddenly lost all my music I would be beyond infuriated. So much so that they would lose me - someone who would get up at 3 AM to watch Steve Jobs keynotes - forever.

    Music means a lot to me. I live for music. This behaviour is wrong.
     
  8. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

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    Boston
    #8
    No offense but your thread title started the snarky responses. If you opened up the disscussion with a more reasoned and accurat thread title then maybe things would have turned out differently.

    Those snarky resposnes were correct, even if the delivery of the truth was a bit harsh. Deleting applications also deletes the data associated to the application, so its logical in deleting the music app, that any data associated, i.e., music will also be removed.

    I wouldn't blame apple for this, because that behavior is consistent regardless of the application being deleted, and in a way, this may be one reason why apple did not permit its delivered apps from being deleted, i.e., protecting consumers from themselves.
     
  9. simonmet, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018

    simonmet thread starter macrumors 68000

    simonmet

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    #9
    Thanks. Yes I was upset, but did you fully read my other post above in which I explained why it’s in fact not logical to have assumed that the music was tied to the app? The responses were not “correct”. I’ve subsequently synced my music to the phone without the app installed and can play it through a vastly superior app without Apple’s Music app. It in no way requires the iOS Music app and is therefore not logically tied to the app. I’m not stupid, in case you were wondering. And who hasn’t accidentally deleted an app just through holding it with the touch-screen interface?

    If it’s possible, please change the thread title to “Warning: deleting iOS Music app deletes your Music library!” I’m convinced there are others who aren’t aware of this.

    Imagine, heading off on an overseas holiday, listening to your favourite muzak and then suddenly this happened!

    First-world problems I know.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 7, 2018 ---
    Again, it is not the library of the music player. It is an independent library playable through a vast selection of alternative music players on Apple’s iOS App Store.
     
  10. maflynn, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018

    maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #10
    I changed the title as you had requested.

    I have to disagree, I think it is logical but I can see someone doing this without realizing this would impact their iTunes library on the phone when the music app was deleted.
     
  11. DNichter macrumors 603

    DNichter

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  12. mollyc macrumors 6502a

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    Aug 18, 2016
    #12
    Whenever I delete an app, I get a warning message that deleting this app will remove all data associated with it. Did you not get this message when deleting the Music app? If you did, did you just disregard it?
     
  13. barjam, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018

    barjam macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    #13
    Yes it warns you that it will delete all of it’s data. The poster must have ignored that warning. The poster screws up then expresses all sorts of questionable opinions and rehashes the tired SD card argument for the hell of it.

    Rather than focusing his anger at his mistake he redirects it at Apple for some reason.

    To the poster every current version is a “disaster” on these forums, always has been. And by this time next year folks will be saying 12 is a disaster and 11 was awesome and they want to stay at that version forever! Happens ever release. 11 is no worse/better than previous versions. You found a bug, good for you, report it and move on.
     
  14. simonmet thread starter macrumors 68000

    simonmet

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    #14
    Hey,

    Seems everyone is ignoring the fact that the iTunes music library is not “tied” to the Music app, which are in fact two separate apps anyway that don’t even have the same name. Or are you just happy to ignore this?

    Also happy to ignore my point, which I repeated multiple times, that you don’t even need the Music app to sync and play the music.

    I’ve given iOS 11 plenty of flack - deservedly so - and I’m not the only one, but also happy to acknowledge its merits, like the new Control Centre which I really like. I’m not a one sided Apple hater or apologist. I’m a normal consumer that would be pretty pissed if I suddenly happened to be stuck without my music for 24 hours let alone weeks or months because of reasons I quite clearly explained whee it’s not reasonable to assume that an *itunes* music library is not the Music app’s data.

    I’m more than happy to assume that any downloaded tracks bought from iTunes or part of Apple Music or iTunes Match get deleted but this was NOT the case.
     
  15. Mammut, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018

    Mammut macrumors member

    Mammut

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    Frankfurt, Germany
    #15
    I'm not sure whether the available interface to other apps makes the music library independent of the music app. Sure, as long as it's there, the music app offers some APIs to allow 3rd party apps access to your library, but that doesn't make the library independent of the music app. I think the effect of your action told you: it's not independent.

    Sure, Apple could indicate it more clearly, that removing the music app will cause a loss of your music library on the device, but I assume thats the only point you can blame Apple for.

    I think there is only one way to make sure that these things won't hit you that hard in the future again: just don't erase core apps or change fundamental settings of your device while you are overseas or for some other reasons not able to correct the effects of your actions.

    Just a few more words... go to Settings / iPhone Storage / Music and it clearly indicates, that your music is part of the Music App app data.

    And now I'm leaving this discussion since it's running in circles. :)

    EDIT: Maybe the better option would have been to 'offload' the app, since this way keeps the documents and data of the offloaded app on the device.
     
  16. simonmet thread starter macrumors 68000

    simonmet

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    #16
    Thank you. I respect that you think this is logical if you respect my strong cases as argued for believing otherwise. I bet there are others that aren’t aware of this.

    Let’s just say I’ve learnt my lesson and I won’t be installing - nor therefore deleting - Apple’s iOS Music app again.

    Come to think of it, I’m more sure now that it’s a recent iOS 11.2.x change.
     
  17. KamranMackey macrumors 6502

    KamranMackey

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    Canada
    #17
    I'm pretty dang sure that no one has accidentally deleted an app by touch-holding on the iOS home screen. As in order to do that, you would need to hold down said app icon, wait for it to start jiggling, tap the "X" at the top left corner of the app icon once it appears, and then confirm the deletion via a pop-up that appears. If anyone manages to "accidentally" do all those steps, then I'd be really surprised.
     
  18. simonmet thread starter macrumors 68000

    simonmet

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    #18
    I have 3 backups of my music because it’s that important to me, but that doesn’t mean I have access to any of them.

    Apparently everyone else thinks I’m stupid. Well fine. Guess what? There are stupid people out there - some of whom own iPhones - and even smart people make mistakes!

    It’s a learning experience. I now know.
     
  19. Mr.Blacky macrumors regular

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    Jul 31, 2016
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    Austria
    #19
    Of course! Tap and hold an App icon, then tap the little "x" and then tap "Delete" on the pop-up menu (where, by the way, it says that all corresponding data will get deleted too). How can all of this happen accidentally?!o_O
     
  20. simonmet thread starter macrumors 68000

    simonmet

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    #20
    Lol. Happened to me many times, but mostly when out at a pub or club.
     
  21. KamranMackey macrumors 6502

    KamranMackey

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    #21
    Color me surprised then lol, but I guess I'm less surprised than I thought I would be because of the whole "pub or club" part.
     
  22. simonmet thread starter macrumors 68000

    simonmet

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    #22
    See comment above. It has happened to me when holding the phone and you’re touching the screen all over the place. Not often but it has.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 7, 2018 ---
    Can we agree Apple should make it harder to delete 120 GB of lossless music?

    Actually, you know what, I don’t need you or anyone to agree with me on anything.

    Just out of interest I’m going to conduct a little survey of my own. I’m going to ask the next 5-10 people I speak to who own iPhones if they were aware and I’ll report back.
    --- Post Merged, Feb 7, 2018 ---
    Sorry, I have a life!
     
  23. Mammut macrumors member

    Mammut

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    #23
    As I mentioned above, the appropriate solution for this problem might be to offload the app in settings instead of deleting it. This should keep the app data on the device and just erase the app itself.
     
  24. barjam macrumors 6502

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    #24
    Evidently it is tied to it, as you figured out. Did the other programs that use the Music apis function after you removed music? Guessing those calls all fail with Music removed.
     
  25. trouble747 macrumors 6502

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    Jul 30, 2011
    #25
    Wait, they are "two separate apps"? I don't follow. Which icon designates the music library? And are you claiming that, in prior versions of iOS, one could delete the music player (identified by the iTunes note symbol) and any music downloaded to the device would remain accessible? I wouldn't have even thought that this app could be deleted...
     

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