HomePod WARNING: HomePod 11.3 significantly changes EQ, please read before updating

[iLog.Genius]

Sound, like design (remember the complaining about iOS 7?) is VERY SUBJECTIVE. Seriously loads of people including myself complained about certain design elements when Apple changed everything. And guess what ? People either got used to it or it wasn’t as big of a deal for 99 percent of people to want to stop using Apple devices. I think this whole discussion will go the same way after a while. So saying the new sound is worse is not an accurate statement. Since some think it’s worse, some think it’s better and some hear no difference. Who knows how Apple will handle it going forward.

The difference with sound vs. design is that design, at least in Apple's view, is used to achieve something greater whether it's to include a larger battery, display panel, speaker, etc. It's easy to get used to it and accept it because underneath it all, there are upgrades. With sound, not one person can dictate what the best sound is for each individual. Now, if Apple released and sold the HomePod with a certain sound and never tweaked it, that's one thing. You hear the HomePod and if you like it, you buy it, if not you move on to the next speaker. But to buy the HomePod because you heard it and liked it only to have it updated where the sound changed is wrong.

Like I said in an earlier post, Apple can tweak and change the sound however they like, but they need to add some sort of equalizer so the user can tweak it to their environment because no matter how "magical" Apple markets the HomePod to be, it cannot account for every single individuals hearing and environment to come to the conclusion that this is how the HomePod should sound.

 

[zakarhino]

Mine sounds worse. I wish there was a way to tweak EQ on these things. Maybe we'll get that in iOS 12 but something tells me Apple doesn't want you to screwing around with their 'perfectly tuned sound signature.'
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I agree it would be a nice move to introduce an EQ, but that goes against the grain of what Apple is doing, its promoting how the HomePod computes how to produce the best sounds, and that goes out the window if you let the owner change the settings.

I suppose this makes sense but I feel like a manual EQ and Apple's HomePod sound algorithm can co-exist. I.e, I can increase the bass but only within a range that the HomePod feels is appropriate before the sound distorts or something along those lines.

 

[jonnyb098]

Mine sounds worse. I wish there was a way to tweak EQ on these things. Maybe we'll get that in iOS 12 but something tells me Apple doesn't want you to screwing around with their 'perfectly tuned sound signature.'
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I suppose this makes sense but I feel like a manual EQ and Apple's HomePod sound algorithm can co-exist. I.e, I can increase the bass but only within a range that the HomePod feels is appropriate before the sound distorts or something along those lines.

There’s no way in hell Apple will provide a manual EQ for HomePod. The best hope is a single toggle switch for enhanced bass. People have complained since the dawn of the iPod for a manual EQ 17 years ago and it hasn’t happened. It will never happen.

 

[Bfarmer38119]

My biggest disappointment with the software upgrade is not decreased bass. Rather, it is the spatial qualities. Before I could close my eyes and hear sounds spread out through a wide field. It now sounds as if it is just coming from a single location and nothing exceptional.

I bought two within the the first week because I wanted to run them in stereo and imagined incredible sound beyond just plain stereo. I agree that I bought into the whole speaker adapts to location, etc. but never anticipated them changing what they said was an optimum sound. None of it makes sense.

On top of this, I went through a month of testing issues with the home app and senior engineers only to be told abruptly that I was experiencing a known issue and would be addressed in a future software update. Review of other users’ posts were told this as far back as years ago.

I have my serious doubts of the future of HomeKit.

 

[jonnyb098]

My biggest disappointment with the software upgrade is not decreased bass. Rather, it is the spatial qualities. Before I could close my eyes and hear sounds spread out through a wide field. It now sounds as if it is just coming from a single location and nothing exceptional.

I bought two within the the first week because I wanted to run them in stereo and imagined incredible sound beyond just plain stereo. I agree that I bought into the whole speaker adapts to location, etc. but never anticipated them changing what they said was an optimum sound. None of it makes sense.

On top of this, I went through a month of testing issues with the home app and senior engineers only to be told abruptly that I was experiencing a known issue and would be addressed in a future software update. Review of other users’ posts were told this as far back as years ago.

I have my serious doubts of the future of HomeKit.

I think one thing that may not be occurring to everyone is that Apple is ramping up for the stereo pairing feature thus changing the HomePod spatial awareness prematurely. There are lots of things in iOS for example that made little sense until new products came out like iPhone X.

 

[tywebb13]

There’s no way in hell Apple will provide a manual EQ for HomePod.

Just use airfoil like I said back on page 3 for the EQ.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-before-updating.2112649/page-3#post-25964267

 

[maflynn]

but I feel like a manual EQ and Apple's HomePod sound algorithm can co-exist.

It can coexist, but that's not the Apple way. They developed the logic to produce some great sounds coming from the HomePod, they're not about to give the consumer the freedom to mess with the output. I'm not knocking Apple, I accept this, as I've been with Apple for so many years now..

 

[tywebb13]

It can coexist, but that's not the Apple way. They developed the logic to produce some great sounds coming from the HomePod, they're not about to give the consumer the freedom to mess with the output. I'm not knocking Apple, I accept this, as I've been with Apple for so many years now..

Not interested in "apple's way". Once I purchased the homepods they belong to ME now, not apple. So from now on as far as I am concerned it is MY way that will prevail, not apple's way.

One does not need apple to "give" the consumer the freedom. One simply claims it. And woe betide any trillion dollar company that gets in the way.

That's right. I am claiming that the humble consumer has the high ground over apple.

I made a thread on how to already get stereo homepods - without having to wait for updates from apple: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/stereo-homepods-without-the-update.2106948/#post-25831882

and have spoken in this thread already on how to get an EQ set up the way you want it and not have to be enslaved by apple - even if apple don't like it.

 

[maflynn]

Not interested in "apple's way". Once I purchased the homepods they belong to ME now, not apple

Yet, in purchasing the Homepod you're implicitly agreeing with how Apple does things, so regardless of you not wanting to do Apple's way of things, you will.

I remember back in the day when theming was a thing, Apple shut down the burgeoning cottage industry by locking down aspects of OS X. Their response is they want to ensure a uniform user experience. Many people bemoaned the move, but again, its apple's way or the highway.

If you want more control over your devices, be they phones, tablets or speakers then Apple may not be the best choice for you.

 

[tywebb13]

Yet, in purchasing the Homepod you're implicitly agreeing with how Apple does things, so regardless of you not wanting to do Apple's way of things, you will.

I remember back in the day when theming was a thing, Apple shut down the burgeoning cottage industry by locking down aspects of OS X. Their response is they want to ensure a uniform user experience. Many people bemoaned the move, but again, its apple's way or the highway.

If you want more control over your devices, be they phones, tablets or speakers then Apple may not be the best choice for you.

I know I was quite critical in my previous post. However overall I am happy with the homepods. Even happier that I was able to discover ways to customise the stereo and EQ aspects and share such knowledge on macrumors.

Also happy to keep using a mac too. I know you can do cool stuff with things like a raspberry pi, but for the most part I am still happy with my mac.

So I don't think it's apple's way or the highway. It's the consumer's way or the highway for apple as far as I'm concerned. And of course that may involve tweaking apple's stuff even if they don't like it.

I even got mac os 7 running on a jailbroken ipod touch once - replete with the grouch trash can! That was fun.

 

[maflynn]

So I don't think it's apple's way or the highway. It's the consumer's way or the highway for apple as far as I'm concerned.

I disgree. Its the consumer's job to purchase a product that best fits their needs.

As a consumer you have the choice to buy Apple products, thus affirming their business direction/philosophy, or buy another product, that's the power of a consumer.

Apple chose to invest in a lot of R&D in the HomePod to produce the best sound, and (I'm making an assumption) they don't want to open tip the EQ to alter that behavior. The HomePod is a closed product, it only allows native access to Apple Music, no other service, and you have to abide by how it decides by the sound. For many people that's not an issue, for others it is. You can't have your cake and it eat it. If you like how Apple products work, its integration of iDevices/Macs/home automation then you have to embrace how they do that very thing.

I have no idea if the homePod is a success, rumors point to that sales are less then Apple had hoped for, yet the very same thing was said about the Apple Watch and now its preeminent smart watch on the market. Apple is very successful and they tend to tell consumers what they want and like, not the other way around.

I think a Steve Jobs quote fits here "It’s not the customer’s job to know what they want". I think its fairly on topic as it illustrates the mindset of Apple.

 

[BlankStar]

You can get an iPad as a HomeKit / Siri controller, but I think the HomePod is actually cheaper.
With the iPad, you have an additional screen for you to interact with the HomeKit settings (instead of just relying on voice).

Apple TV is the cheapest option if you're just looking for a HomeKit-hub.

 

[jigzaw]

This sounds promising. How do I get this? Is there a procedure to update the HomePod or will the fact that I've already moved my phone to 11.3 automatically have this effect?

 

[BlankStar]

You can update the HomePod from the Home.app

 

[DarwinOSX]

Not interested in "apple's way". Once I purchased the homepods they belong to ME now, not apple. So from now on as far as I am concerned it is MY way that will prevail, not apple's way.
One does not need apple to "give" the consumer the freedom. One simply claims it. And woe betide any trillion dollar company that gets in the way.
That's right. I am claiming that the humble consumer has the high ground over apple.
I made a thread on how to already get stereo homepods - without having to wait for updates from apple: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/stereo-homepods-without-the-update.2106948/#post-25831882
and have spoken in this thread already on how to get an EQ set up the way you want it and not have to be enslaved by apple - even if apple don't like it.

Very dramatic and is amusing since Apple controls the software and you never will.
Airfoil is interesting and I have been using it for some time but I'm sure the real stereo functionality will be different and better than cobbling it together using Airfoil.
I like the new sound. It was too boomy before.

 

[sargein]

Hate the updated sound. It sound tiny in comparison to Sonos 1 (non-Alexa version) I have sitting right next to it. Mids are really lacking now. Had returned the HomePod first time round, and just bought again from Costco. I have 3 months for Apple to fix what it broke, else it goes back.

 

[karnsculpture]

Personal observation, after a couple of days the sound returned to "normal", so maybe the HomePod had to recalibrate itself somehow?

 

[Endorphine88]

Personal observation, after a couple of days the sound returned to "normal", so maybe the HomePod had to recalibrate itself somehow?

I'm still conflicted on this. I updated both my HomePods (I had to). Some days I feel like the sound is still deep and I haven't lost lows and other days I feel like highs are way too punchy and overtuned while bass is behing held back on purpose. I've done the turn off/move around/unpair, pair again spiel to recalibrate sound multiple times and I can't decide if I'm going crazy or this is an actual thing. Overall, I can tell that something changed and I don't really like it. Before, I felt the power of the speaker and there was a depth to the sound. Now it sounds Ok most of the time, but sometimes it is extremely tinny and flat.
+enhanced bass option, Apple! Pretty please

 

[jonnyb098]

I'm still conflicted on this. I updated both my HomePods (I had to). Some days I feel like the sound is still deep and I haven't lost lows and other days I feel like highs are way too punchy and overtuned while bass is behing held back on purpose. I've done the turn off/move around/unpair, pair again spiel to recalibrate sound multiple times and I can't decide if I'm going crazy or this is an actual thing. Overall, I can tell that something changed and I don't really like it. Before, I felt the power of the speaker and there was a depth to the sound. Now it sounds Ok most of the time, but sometimes it is extremely tinny and flat.
+enhanced bass option, Apple! Pretty please

Doesn't the Homepod auto EQ based on song?? If so that could make all this much more tricky and complicated.

 

[Endorphine88]

Doesn't the Homepod auto EQ based on song?? If so that could make all this much more tricky and complicated.

I don't know if it's based on every song. From what I know, it adjusts based on its position and what's surrounding it and once it scans the room it kind of keeps that signature unless it is moved. What's making it difficult is that when I use Airplay and try to use and equalizer to adjust lower end, it feels like the Homepod id fighting it and always tries to undo what the equalizer is doing.

 

[jonnyb098]

I don't know if it's based on every song. From what I know, it adjusts based on its position and what's surrounding it and once it scans the room it kind of keeps that signature unless it is moved. What's making it difficult is that when I use Airplay and try to use and equalizer to adjust lower end, it feels like the Homepod id fighting it and always tries to undo what the equalizer is doing.

That would make sense given its processing. Homepod gets what homepod wants, haha. I swear I heard talk around it analyzing each song and where to bring out vocal, guitars, background, etc. Thats why I figured theres a variance between each song for things like bass.

 

[ArcAngel66]

That would make sense given its processing. Homepod gets what homepod wants, haha. I swear I heard talk around it analyzing each song and where to bring out vocal, guitars, background, etc. Thats why I figured theres a variance between each song for things like bass.

It does indeed do this to a certain extent.

It analyzes the song itself, in stereo, looking for typical ranges for direct and vocal frequencies, and also for ambient sounds, looping sounds, etc.

Now, it plays that sound/song that it already has a sense of what it “should” sound like.

And using the beam forming mics, it can listen to what’s being played and evaluate that against what it’s already built an expectation of for the song.


Think of when you say “hey Siri” or “alexa”, the devices not only beamform to where that voice came from, but for the purpose of being able to hear the command... they then hone in on the frequency, direction, and turn down the sensitivity of other directions, etc.


The HomePod is doing both things constantly. It’s always analyzing the song. And depending on the results of the calibration (which I’m not sure if t does only when moved, or periodically)... it will not only focus certain frequencies to specific tweeters, but each one will essentially have its own room-EQ as well, AND each tweeter receives its own amplification (volume) compensation as well.


There are several moving targets here. What the HomePod examines in the song, overlayed by what the HomePod examines in the room - in order to determine how that song gets divied out to the 7 tweeters and 1 woofer.

This variable moving target is why stereo is taking a while, if I had to guess. Because it just exponentially increased these different factors, not to mention they have to know that the sounds being played are not picked up as “reflections” in certain cases by the other speaker. Talk about complexity.

I don’t see Apple trying to change the sound signature of the HomePod. I do see them tweaking how it thinks, listens, and compensates. Lower bass in 11.3? I down they turned the bass nob down. But it’s possible they adjusted how A8 compensated for what the woofer mic picked up. So depending on the song, position, and many other things, it could sound different. Or it could sound exactly the same.

 

[Newtons Apple]

The HP is like all Apple products and the users has little input on it's operation. Apple just make it so it works.

 

[maflynn]

The HP is like all Apple products and the users has little input on it's operation. Apple just make it so it works.

Yep, which is surprising to see people complain, that apple should open it up, which is exactly opposite to apple's approach.

 

[Buerkletucson]

Yep, which is surprising to see people complain, that apple should open it up, which is exactly opposite to apple's approach.

That's because a person's music sound preference is so drastically a subjective thing......
Apple can't decide what sounds good to me or you or anyone else.

Completely different animal than anything Apple produces otherwise......they can't use the same old approach.