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WARNING if you want to install macOS Ventura Beta to a 2nd volume or external drive.

MrMacintoshBlog

MrMacintoshBlog

macrumors 6502
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Sep 21, 2009
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The Ventura beta upgrade is now installed the same way as a minor software update.

In previous versions of macOS, you could use System Preferences > Software Update to get the full beta installer. After the download finished, it would be moved to /Applications then would auto start the main installer menu. You could then select a 2nd volume or external drive.

With macOS Ventura Beta, the process has changed.

The full installer is no longer downloaded and added to /Applications. Software Update will now calculate only the files you need for the upgrade. The Ventura upgrade can now be as small as 4GB!

After clicking "Upgrade Now" the download will begin. When finished, Ventura will install on your MAIN MAC!

If you want to install Ventura Beta to a 2nd Volume or external drive, you will need to download the 12GB Ventura full installer.

EDIT: After looking into this more. You can tell you will be getting the full installer if the size is 12.12GB. If the installer size in system preferences is 11.24GB or less you will be getting the update.
 
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I received the full installer still one one of my installations but didn't receive it in a second install. Not sure what's going on with that.
 
superstrikertwo said:
I received the full installer still one one of my installations but didn't receive it in a second install. Not sure what's going on with that.
Click to expand...
I'm looking into that now. I unpacked the beta profile pkg and found that it is supposed to point software update to the appstore to get the full installer. This would prevent the problem. I'm trying to figure out why it is happening sometimes but not others.

Did you install twice on the same Mac or 2 different Macs?
 
Wait... we can install it on an external drive ? If so, I'm curious to try it.

With Monterey I've never been able to and realized Apple was intentionally blocking it on M1 machines. I needed to have a Thunderbolt enclosure and not USB 3.
 
Wait. It still messed with my main install. I had to delete the local keychain and all sort of settings were cleared.
Ventura is working except for Wallet. Clearly not yet my main driver.
Feels more "iPhony." I especially hate the Settings app.
 
Yes, this happened to me. F*ck that. Now my main macOS installer was updated to Ventura.
What's the best possible way to go back to Monterey on my M1 MacBook Pro?

When I go to Recovery Mode it only let me install macOS 13 Beta.
 
MrMacintoshBlog said:
I'm looking into that now. I unpacked the beta profile pkg and found that it is supposed to point software update to the appstore to get the full installer. This would prevent the problem. I'm trying to figure out why it is happening sometimes but not others.

Did you install twice on the same Mac or 2 different Macs?
Click to expand...
Same Mac! The first time I downloaded it was minutes after it went live on the dev center. Second time I tried it did a direct update without giving me the installer. I’ve reinstalled a couple of times over the last few days and its been hit or miss if I get the installer app or not.

Eventually just used your site to reliably get it for my USB bootable installer.
 
Rivanov said:
Yes, this happened to me. F*ck that. Now my main macOS installer was updated to Ventura.
What's the best possible way to go back to Monterey on my M1 MacBook Pro?

When I go to Recovery Mode it only let me install macOS 13 Beta.
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear that this happen to you. The downgrade process a bit complicated because of M1 Recovery OS.

#1 Backup all your data.

You can create a Monterey USB installer and boot to it. You will need to erase your drive and install Monterey to fully downgrade.

The problem with doing it this way is that your Recovery OS will still be Ventura, and will remain that way until you eventually upgrade to Ventura. This does not hurt anything, just something to keep in mind.

If you have a 2nd Mac, you could use Apple Configurator 2 to restore macOS via an IPSW file. This will restore macOS Monterey and change recovery back to Monterey.

I'm working on a new walkthrough now, but you could take a look at my walkthrough for how to downgrade Monterey to Big Sur. Same process just use Monterey instead of Big Sur.

 
MrMacintoshBlog said:
Sorry to hear that this happen to you. The downgrade process a bit complicated because of M1 Recovery OS.

#1 Backup all your data.

You can create a Monterey USB installer and boot to it. You will need to erase your drive and install Monterey to fully downgrade.

The problem with doing it this way is that your Recovery OS will still be Ventura, and will remain that way until you eventually upgrade to Ventura. This does not hurt anything, just something to keep in mind.

If you have a 2nd Mac, you could use Apple Configurator 2 to restore macOS via an IPSW file. This will restore macOS Monterey and change recovery back to Monterey.

I'm working on a new walkthrough now, but you could take a look at my walkthrough for how to downgrade Monterey to Big Sur. Same process just use Monterey instead of Big Sur.

Click to expand...
Thanks!!
 
I'm sitting here just trying to wrap my head around the fact that an OS download (compressed as well, I assume) is 12GB. My 2010 Mac Mini came with a fully functioning OS on a 4GB DVD with a snow leopard on the front. In 12 years has it really got 3x as great? I'm trying to think what absolutely revolutionary tasks a 12GB OS enables that I couldn't do on Snow Leopard, and I'm already stuck.
 
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MajorFubar said:
I'm sitting here just trying to wrap my head around the fact that an OS download (compressed as well, I assume) is 12GB. My 2010 Mac Mini came with a fully functioning OS on a 4GB DVD with a snow leopard on the front. In 12 years has it really got 3x as great? I'm trying to think what absolutely revolutionary tasks a 12GB OS enables that I couldn't do on Snow Leopard, and I'm already stuck.
Click to expand...
I was just wondering that too, because I have a really bad case of "my 256GB hard drive is full" and I even found hacks to transfer a bunch of user folders to my 2TB external HD, but it just doesn't cut it. I cannot optimize it more than that.

I think the main explanation is : Retina displays forced Apple to also include assets that are much bigger in file size - although they went for a vectorial approach.
Add nearly 4,000 high-res emoji assets.
Also add a few apps that appeared with time (Maps, Clock, Weather, Facetime, TV, Podcasts, News, Stocks, iCloud, and probably more).
Add more localization languages.
Also add Siri - I'm pretty sure this is big in size. If I remember well, just one voice is around 400MB.
Add Swift and SwiftUI libraries (But the again, there was Carbon in Snow Leopard).
Messages has a bunch of special FX that iChat did not have.
Rosetta 2 can also contribute. (But then again, Snow Leopard also had Rosetta 1)
 
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MrMacintoshBlog said:
Sorry to hear that this happen to you. The downgrade process a bit complicated because of M1 Recovery OS.

#1 Backup all your data.

You can create a Monterey USB installer and boot to it. You will need to erase your drive and install Monterey to fully downgrade.

The problem with doing it this way is that your Recovery OS will still be Ventura, and will remain that way until you eventually upgrade to Ventura. This does not hurt anything, just something to keep in mind.

If you have a 2nd Mac, you could use Apple Configurator 2 to restore macOS via an IPSW file. This will restore macOS Monterey and change recovery back to Monterey.

I'm working on a new walkthrough now, but you could take a look at my walkthrough for how to downgrade Monterey to Big Sur. Same process just use Monterey instead of Big Sur.

Click to expand...
Created bootable Monterey USB and re-installed it via this way. Up and running now.
 
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PsykX said:
I was just wondering that too, because I have a really bad case of "my 256GB hard drive is full" and I even found hacks to transfer a bunch of user folders to my 2TB external HD, but it just doesn't cut it. I cannot optimize it more than that.

I think the main explanation is : Retina displays forced Apple to also include assets that are much bigger in file size - although they went for a vectorial approach.
Add nearly 4,000 high-res emoji assets.
Also add a few apps that appeared with time (Maps, Clock, Weather, Facetime, TV, Podcasts, News, Stocks, iCloud, and probably more).
Add more localization languages.
Also add Siri - I'm pretty sure this is big in size. If I remember well, just one voice is around 400MB.
Add Swift and SwiftUI libraries (But the again, there was Carbon in Snow Leopard).
Messages has a bunch of special FX that iChat did not have.
Rosetta 2 can also contribute. (But then again, Snow Leopard also had Rosetta 1)
Click to expand...
Rosetta alone takes up 3GB as of Monterey as Apple ships pre-translated Intel libraries with macOS to speed up inital app launches even though Rosetta itself is a seperate download.
 
Thanks for the original post.

How does one ENSURE that the full installer gets downloaded?
Is there a DIRECT URL to get it?
 
I followed this dude's instructions and installed the beta "fresh" (without migrating anything but my most important settings, like keychain, etc.) onto a second APFS container on my MacBook Air M1.

Alle went pretty smoothly, and I'm mostly enamoured by the new OS...of course, a fresh install always feels awfully snappy.

Anyone figured out a way to exclude the "other" OS container (Monterey, in my case) from being indexed by Spotlight, without it then *also* being excluded when one boots back into Monterey? For some reason this preference seems to be shared between the two OSes (or maybe that is one of the results of creating a container, rather than a separate partition?)...bc both containers being indexed always leads to confusion when using Spotlight, in either OS...same happened when I transitioned from Big Sur to the Monterey Beta.

Other than that, fairly smooth sailing, so far, other than the same annoyance as was the case in the previous transition, where the external monitor (I use an LG5K) resolution on it and my internal MBA monitor and their arrangement gets messed up *every* time I reboot, requiring to set everything up anew...very annoying...same happens if I try to put one of the screens to sleep.

Curious to see how all this unfolds. Loved the WWDC Keynote and all that it promised for our near future :)
Apple is truly rockin' it with Apple Silicon!
 
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MajorFubar said:
I'm sitting here just trying to wrap my head around the fact that an OS download (compressed as well, I assume) is 12GB. My 2010 Mac Mini came with a fully functioning OS on a 4GB DVD with a snow leopard on the front. In 12 years has it really got 3x as great? I'm trying to think what absolutely revolutionary tasks a 12GB OS enables that I couldn't do on Snow Leopard, and I'm already stuck.
Click to expand...
For sure. Keep in mind, the Big Sur, Monterey & Ventura installers are universal. That means they contain Intel & M1 code. For comparison, the full installer for Catalina (intel only) was 6GB
 
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I wiped the install on my second disk and started over. It "downloaded" quickly due to iCloud Content caching. I expected to get an install dialog, instead after I stepped away it was merrily installing on my main system!
 
MrMacintoshBlog said:
For sure. Keep in mind, the Big Sur, Monterey & Ventura installers are universal. That means they contain Intel & M1 code. For comparison, the full installer for Catalina (intel only) was 6GB
Click to expand...
That's true I never thought of that. I wonder if during the install it deletes the version it doesn't need, so we don't sit around with 6GB of unneeded code on our computers? I can't remember how much free space was on my MBA/Studio when I first bought them.
 
I do believe that the installer is compressed. Might be wrong… Any of you got a clean install check the size it fills?
 
Screenshot 2022-06-13 at 21.00.38.png


Where did you download the full version ? Is it this ipsw file when you click "Mac computers with the Apple silicon" ?

EDIT: NVM google the dudes name landed me on one of the articles with a full download link to macOS Ventura directly from the apple servers
 
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I ran into the same issue! I had my test volume set up like usual, and then...it just did it haha. Thankfully nothing too catastrophic happened and I installed Monterey on that volume instead, so bouncing back and forth. Not ideal, so thanks for passing it on.
 
I created a USB installer. Tried several times. No matter what I do, boot from the USB Ventura Installer takes me to the Recovery. Macbook Pro 16" Intel.

Also, with an SSD external, and choosing it to install Ventura from Monterey, after first reboot takes me also to the Recovery.

Seems like Ventura needs to boot from the internal main drive...
 
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