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Do these moves confirm that the design didn’t work as well as thought? I would actually love a return to shiny steel, plus a return to colorful aluminum…
No. I like the natural titanium of both my v1 Apple Watch Ultra and my iPhone 16 Pro Max. Also I actively dislike shiny steel and actively dislike colorful aluminum. YMMV.

Note that there was a lot of whining about fingerprint oil on the titanium alloy finish when first released. FYI after almost half a year of caseless usage I see zero fingerprint marks on my iP16 PM in natural titanium.
 
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I am one of those that eschews cases because iPhones are now so very, very tough. But I like your idea that "Maybe Apple needs to make a case version of their phones that removes all unnecessary “premium” weight and cost." Unfortunately Apple cannot rely on vendors of cheapy cases to provide the structural strength that an iPhone needs, even if there were not people like me who far prefer bare iPhones.
I feel like even a thin case is better than a bare phone especially now that they have glass on the back. Yes I’ve seen them survive drops, but I’ve also watched my phone drop 18 inches on a tile floor and shatter the back glass.


The premium components aren’t structural or at least necessary for structural purposes. Plastic is stronger than glass, but it doesn’t look as good. If the back glass was replaced with plastic, it would be stronger. Aluminum can be better than stainless steel since it’s lighter and that makes a difference in a drop.

If Apple made something like the Pro Max with a plastic back aluminum sides, but all the hardware, it would be a great deal.

Realistically do I think that’s ever going to happen? No because of several reasons. The first being people primarily purchase things based on how they look. Yes they’ll look at the specs later, but if it doesn’t look pretty, it’s not going to get purchased. Unless somehow Apple could sell the phone inside of a case already, I don’t think it would be popular.

There’s also a second consideration. How would Apple market this and at what price point? Even though it has a plastic back, it has higher specifications than the regular iPhone so they can’t price it even at the same price. It would have to be priced higher than the regular iPhone, but lower than the “premium“ Pro model.

Currently there’s only a $170 price difference between the regular iPhone and the Pro model. That’s not much room for an in between model. Unless the price of the Pro were to increase drastically in the future I don’t see this ever having a spot in the Apple lineup
 
Like the new Mac Mini and Watch Series 10, Apple wants to be carbon neutral with all their products by 2030 with aluminum.
 
The titanium use was irrelevant to me but I can't see a reason why it failed? I am using a 16 Pro Max and its like any other iPhone I have owned prior. It is just marketing and to be honest, I don't case which the edge of my iPhone is made from.
 
If the intention was to create a phone from Ti to benefit from it's structural properties, then yes as the material was too expensive to do any more than put a titanium band around the edge of the phone as a finish. If it was a marketing point, then possibly, depending on how many people that particular selling point swayed to buying the phone over rivals.
 
The iPhone 7 had the back entirely in jet black aluminum. Now iPhones have a glass back, only the frame would be involved
Yes. So? Historically the side rails are much more prone to scratches and scuffs than the back is, metal or not. Doesn’t do anyone any good if just the sides scratch but not the glass.
 
Frames are not aluminum or titanium, they are alloys. Most of the comments here about aluminum this titanium that are factually way wrong. because the comments are about the pure metals which iPhone frames are never made from (stainless steel is an alloy by definition). It gets frustrating.

The reason it matters is because alloys or oxides often behave totally differently than the pure metals do.
Not only that, but modern aluminum alloys like the 7000 series used in iPhones are engineered to match the properties of titanium alloys in many applications. Titanium alloys have their use cases, especially at higher temperatures, but for iPhones it's entirely down to marketing. If durability was their main driving force then they would have stuck with steel.
 
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Frames are not aluminum or titanium, they are alloys. Most of the comments here about aluminum this titanium that are factually way wrong. because the comments are about the pure metals which iPhone frames are never made from (stainless steel is an alloy by definition). It gets frustrating.

The reason it matters is because alloys or oxides often behave totally differently than the pure metals do.
If I take my iPhone 15 Pro and burn it at just below the temperature that titanium would melt, all I would have left is the titanium sides. I get your comment regarding aluminium and stainless steel iPhones, but is the same true about the titanium?
Have you seen the video where a YouTuber melts down a 15 Pro?
 
I wish Apple would go back to stainless steel. Lighter is nicer but I don’t mind the little extra weight. I never understood how people complained about a single extra ounce in weight.

I liked how the stainless steel was smooth and provided a little more grip. I never felt like I needed a case when holding my 13 Pro and 14 Pro. My current 15 Pro feels like it’s going to slide right out of my hand when I hold it naked.
I can use a 12 Max without discomfort. The 14 Max triggered my latent arthritis.
 
If I take my iPhone 15 Pro and burn it at just below the temperature that titanium would melt, all I would have left is the titanium sides. I get your comment regarding aluminium and stainless steel iPhones, but is the same true about the titanium?
Have you seen the video where a YouTuber melts down a 15 Pro?
The metal used in outer band of the iPhone 15 and 16 Pro is an alloy of titanium, aluminum, and vanadium (Ti-6Al-4V). The addition of these metals results in an alloy that is stronger, less prone to corrode, and has a higher melting point than pure titanium.
 
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I would like to see the marketing lingo Apple or anyone else uses to claim that a certain material is superior to Titanium. Go ahead, try it.

Personally, the 15 Pro is nearly perfect for me. It is the largest-sized phone I want to carry and is less than 8 ounces with a minimal case that shows off the Blue titanium finish on the sides. I'm aware of the heat conductivity problem, though in my use the 15 Pro doesn't perform noticeably worse than any of my previous iPhones (X, 12 mini, SE 1st gen). If we follow the normal three-year cycle for major body styles, we shouldn't expect huge changes until the 18. Even then, what would that magic material be?

I remember the OG TiBook. People lusted after it. In two years they switched to fully aluminum cases which held up better over extended periods. The iPhone 15 Pro/16 Pro has very few moving parts, minimal plastic, and Apple has seemed to figure out how to make the finish last. My 15 Pro has zero scratches, which I couldn't say for any of the previous stainless steel or aluminum products after 1+ years. They can keep tweaking the frame design by adding structural aluminum that does double duty as a heat sink. If Apple wants to unleash a cavalcade of colors for its Pro line then sure, aluminum is the way to go. Other than that they should stick to titanium.
 
I would like to see the marketing lingo Apple or anyone else uses to claim that a certain material is superior to Titanium. Go ahead, try it.

Personally, the 15 Pro is nearly perfect for me. It is the largest-sized phone I want to carry and is less than 8 ounces with a minimal case that shows off the Blue titanium finish on the sides. I'm aware of the heat conductivity problem, though in my use the 15 Pro doesn't perform noticeably worse than any of my previous iPhones (X, 12 mini, SE 1st gen). If we follow the normal three-year cycle for major body styles, we shouldn't expect huge changes until the 18. Even then, what would that magic material be?

I remember the OG TiBook. People lusted after it. In two years they switched to fully aluminum cases which held up better over extended periods. The iPhone 15 Pro/16 Pro has very few moving parts, minimal plastic, and Apple has seemed to figure out how to make the finish last. My 15 Pro has zero scratches, which I couldn't say for any of the previous stainless steel or aluminum products after 1+ years. They can keep tweaking the frame design by adding structural aluminum that does double duty as a heat sink. If Apple wants to unleash a cavalcade of colors for its Pro line then sure, aluminum is the way to go. Other than that they should stick to titanium.
I'm not discrediting your experiences but one of the main weaknesses of titanium and its alloys are their susceptibility to damage by abrasion. For all of its strengths, titanium scratches easily, even more so than steal or aluminum. There's a lot of research going into coatings, e.g., for titanium implants, to prevent damage from abrasion which can be a major problem. Because the iPhone Pro's titanium isn't polished scratches don't show like they do on the glossy stainless steel of older models. A brushed stainless steel like that on the iPhone 4 and 4S holds up really well too.
 
On the phone, hard to call it a failure, per se, because use of titanium allow had no technical purpose in the design; it's merely for aesthetics, which is worth a little something. For the Watch Ultra, however, the titanium allow is plainly a technical success, as the sheer bulk of the case, were it ordinary stainless steel, would be much more of a lump on the wrist. Aluminum would have been fine, too, though.

The Titanium discussion was lively.
 
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I liked it and i'm actually annoyed they're getting rid of it. I like that it was more matte and reduced fingerprints and made the phone lighter.
 
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If I take my iPhone 15 Pro and burn it at just below the temperature that titanium would melt, all I would have left is the titanium sides. I get your comment regarding aluminium and stainless steel iPhones, but is the same true about the titanium?
Have you seen the video where a YouTuber melts down a 15 Pro?
A) Pure titanium is never used in iPhone frames; only alloys.
B) No, I do not watch clickbait sensationalism UTube videos. Did similar things myself when preteen, then outgrew it. I learned long ago that some intentionally senational-looking result usually is misleading from an informational standpoint, so I save time by not going there.
 
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A) Pure titanium is never used in iPhone frames; only alloys.
B) No, I do not watch clickbait sensationalism UTube videos. Did similar things myself when preteen, then outgrew it. I learned long ago that some intentionally senational-looking result usually is misleading from an informational standpoint, so I save time by not going there.
Not everything is clickbait and I don’t know why you’d assume it is if you don’t know the creator, which you seemingly don’t. Of course you can take issue with how flooded online spaces are with clickbait in general, but that doesn’t mean you can generalize all content you don’t know.
 
On the phone, hard to call it a failure, per se, because use of titanium allow had no technical purpose in the design; it's merely for aesthetics, which is worth a little something. For the Watch Ultra, however, the titanium allow is plainly a technical success, as the sheer bulk of the case, were it ordinary stainless steel, would be much more of a lump on the wrist. Aluminum would have been fine, too, though.

The Titanium discussion was lively.
Do you have insider info that allows you to say "use of titanium allow [alloy] had no technical purpose in the design; it's merely for aesthetics" ? Just like in high performance aircraft, sometimes titanium alloys are used, but it depends on the design and is not merely for aesthetics. I suspect iPhone design is similar; remember Bendgate? Light, strong and rigid can be useful design characteristics in a phone frame as well as in an airframe. The aesthetics are good too. ;~)
 
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Not everything is clickbait and I don’t know why you’d assume it is if you don’t know the creator, which you seemingly don’t. Of course you can take issue with how flooded online spaces are with clickbait in general, but that doesn’t mean you can generalize all content you don’t know.
Sorry but someone making a video of melting an iPhone is IMO by definition clickbait. The video's creator might be Einstein and also a fine human being, but such a video remains sensationalism. Others may like on the entertainment, but it is entertainment. Heck, I might even like on the entertainment, but given "how flooded online spaces are with clickbait in general" I generally choose not to waste my time looking to find the few gems of useful info that exist.

The exception is when I am doing research and specifically looking for something, then I may watch a UTube video. Although I doubt if I will ever be looking for info on melting some past year's iPhone. I played that game with an aluminum pie plate when I was twelve.
 
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Sorry but someone making a video of melting an iPhone is IMO by definition clickbait. The video's creator might be Einstein and also a fine human being, but such a video remains sensationalism. Others may like on the entertainment, but it is entertainment. Heck, I might even like on the entertainment, but given "how flooded online spaces are with clickbait in general" I generally choose not to waste my time looking to find the few gems of useful info that exist.

The exception is when I am doing research and specifically looking for something, then I may watch a UTube video. Although I doubt if I will ever be looking for info on melting some past year's iPhone. I played that game with an aluminum pie plate when I was twelve.
That must be exhausting. Disregarding everything when it’s not perfect. Don’t get me wrong YT titles are clickbait by design. But that doesn’t mean the content itself is not useful, interesting or informative. You just need to be aware which sources (channels) are worthy of your attention - but this is true everywhere, even in news reporting.
 
The weight saving between 14PM and 15PM was very noticeable to me, I truly hope they keep it
I didn’t have the 14 Pro but the 11 Pro which is with 188g one gram heavier than my 15 Pro, and I honestly didn’t know that until just looking it up, and it feels a lot better in the hand concerning weight distribution. It’s bigger in every dimension compared to my 11 Pro but feels effortless in my hands or when I’m playing around with it without a case with just to fingers. I think it’s great.
 
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Oh hell no Apple don't go back to stainless steel. It's way too heavy on plus and max model. Also, the polished finish is just a nightmare. Remember iPod?
 
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Do you have insider info that allows you to say "use of titanium allow [alloy] had no technical purpose in the design; it's merely for aesthetics" ? Just like in high performance aircraft, sometimes titanium alloys are used, but it depends on the design and is not merely for aesthetics. I suspect iPhone design is similar; remember Bendgate? Light, strong and rigid can be useful design characteristics in a phone frame as well as in an airframe. The aesthetics are good too. ;~)
I'm a lousy typist, but this ain't court, and you ain't owed. That said, as it happens, one workgroup in my organization routinely deconstructs and analyzes - physically, as well as logically - computing gear considered for procurement. It's not insider information; we generate original source data. And, yes, we're well versed in the metallurgical and structural properties of Titanium.

The titanium in the 15's chassis is actually is merely a trivial veneer. Not enough is used to add meaningful, practical improvements in weight or structural integrity. Returning to steel might be economical, but it would be heavier and no stronger resisting bend/twist.

And, as it happens, one video I've seen (JerryRig Everything) matches the description in question. It depicts reasonably precise home science. JRE does not seem inclined towards click-baity titles.
 
What I would like to know is what percentage of people never take their phone out of the case? I’m willing to bet that it’s at least 70% because most phones I see are in cases.


This being said none of this matters when it comes to premium look or feel. I really wish Apple would just prioritize function. I don’t want to carry an extra 100 grams of premium material for a premium look that I see for about three minutes on the day I get my new phone.

Maybe Apple needs to make a case version of their phones that removes all unnecessary “premium” weight and cost
I’m in the never put in a case crowd. Except for the curved models from the 6 to the 11. I could never get a grip on those phones. Begrudgingly used a case.
 
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I’m in the never put in a case crowd. Except for the curved models from the 6 to the 11. I could never get a grip on those phones. Begrudgingly used a case.

I always case a phone, with a screen protector (which was just thick packing tape back in 2007). I always belt-carry in a thermoplastic scabbard. I've never had a phone break from a drop, or scratched beyond usability. I did destroy my late, lamented X in the door hinge of my truck; wun't no Deus ex Machina gonna swoop down and save it that time. It's impossible to dig into pockets, and ridiculous to take gloves off/on -- I run a horse farm evenings and weekends. I eventually started keeping a screen-poker in a sleeve pen slot, as gloves with conductive fingertips don't work when crusted with mud, hair, hay, diesel and grease.
 
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