Resolved Was there ever a two disc version of Leopard?

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by Xandros, Jul 9, 2016.

  1. Xandros macrumors regular

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    #1
    I'm guessing not seeing as I can't find anything about it when searching, all I can see mention of is a single DVD9 (or dual layer) disc version, but I thought I'd ask in case it does exist and just isn't particularly well known (like the CD version of tiger).
     
  2. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #2
    Server comes with two DVDs, but the second one is some additional server administration tools.

    The only version I'm aware of is the DL-DVD.
     
  3. DeltaMac macrumors 604

    DeltaMac

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    #3
    There was the set of two restore DVDs that came with new Macs. Maybe that is what you are thinking about. But, the OS X install was still on just the one DVD, and a second disk with the extra software, and the partition for the hardware test. Not particularly useful for anything other than the exact same Mac system that it shipped with.
     
  4. gavinstubbs09 macrumors 65816

    gavinstubbs09

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    #4
    On *one* online website there is an edition of Leopard made for a 4.7GB DVD that doesn't include the languages and printer drivers.
     
  5. MysticCow macrumors 6502a

    MysticCow

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    #5
    If you have a Mac without a DVD drive, Target Disk it. Partition the hard drive how you want, but make enough space for the DVD (about 10 GB). You'll then "restore" the DVD to that drive.

    This method also gives you an emergency Disc Utility partition if things go wrong.

    Of course, this post makes a huge assumption in that you don't have a DVD drive or have one that is broken beyond repair.
     
  6. weckart macrumors 68040

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    #6
    Leopard requires a minimum of an 867MHz G4. I think all such G4s shipped with at least a combo drive, so Apple saw no need to make a CD version available unlike for Tiger.
     
  7. Xandros thread starter macrumors regular

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    #7
    So, not officially is the answer then. Thanks for the help guys.
     
  8. MysticCow macrumors 6502a

    MysticCow

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    #8

    Leopard only required a G4. It demanded one at 867 MHz+. That demand was easily bypassed.
     
  9. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #9
    Although I won't pretend to speak for Weckart, I think he was implying that in Apple's eyes, all computers that met the requirements would have been able to use a DVD.

    Yes, we all know that Leopard is by far and away the easiest version of OS X on which to bypass the requirements, but Apple didn't want to make it too easy for the average user to bypass :)
     
  10. weckart macrumors 68040

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    #10
    What bunnspecial said. We all know about LeopardAssist. Apple doesn't care.
     
  11. ITguy2016 Suspended

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    #11
    Are you asking because you want DVD (as opposed to dual layer DVD) media which will allow you to install it? If so I have a DVD version which I just used to install Leopard on a dual G5 I picked up this afternoon.
     
  12. Xandros thread starter macrumors regular

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    #12
    Kind of. My Leopard disk is not an original, I made a backup of a friend's install disk (naughty me but, hey, free software - meh) years ago and burned it to a DVD+R DL disc for my PowerBook G4 (which at the time only had Tiger on it). That worked nicely. Then in 2009 when I obtained a MDD (June 2003) I found it didn't read the disc, spits it out. Back then I didn't think too much of it and just assumed the drive had a dirty lens, but I forgot about it until the other day, and when it spat the disc out again I again thought at first this was because the drive was a bit iffy (even after I ran a lens cleaner through it), hence me creating this topic. It didn't occur to me initially that the drive probably will work with an original pressed DVD9 disc so this topic is kind of moot really. I think given the drive was made in 2003 and DVD+R DL media didn't begin to become widely supported until mid 2004 (according to Wikipedia) that may be why the drive doesn't like it - it just doesn't support that kind of media. So yea it's the fact it's DVD+R DL that's the problem, and I don't actually need a two disc version of Leopard on single layer discs at all, I just need an original DVD9 version of it.

    I have however solved my issue now though. Back when I did it before after getting the MDD I used Target Disk Mode, as MysticCow suggested I do now, which I have tried but for some reason now it won't work. The installer loaded and ended up hanging. No idea why, but my MDD's been a bit shady recently (I think the PSU's on the way out... Again). Anyway that's basically it, I tried TDM, didn't work, so I went looking for a single layer media version of Leopard, which doesn't exist. It wasn't actually until after I posted this I started investigating the various topics that were coming up about actually making your own single layer disc by, using sparse disk images and stripping out components like xcode tools, language packs and printer drivers.

    I thought I was onto a winner with that one, followed a guide I found on insaneleymac, burned the disc, and wouldn't you know it the damn thing didn't work. Well, it booted but got stuck seemingly forever on that initial grey loading screen with the Apple logo and the spinning wheel icon. When I looked through the topics on making these discs I found a lot of people had the same issues back then and no one seemed to be able to offer a solution. In the end I solved my problem by using of all things a USB stick. I didn't know you could boot from USB sticks on these old PowerMac's but it turns out you can, provided they're formatted properly with an Apple Partition Map and you plug them into a direct port on the Mac and not a hub like on Apple Pro keyboards. So, yea, solved. It took three hours to configure and install but I assume that's mostly down to it being USB 1.1.
     
  13. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #13
    Glad you got everything working!

    There is a persistent myth that PPC Macs won't boot from USB. This actually isn't universally true-in fact when the Sawtooth was first introduced this was an advertised feature of it.

    From my personal observation, most PPC Macs that shipped with USB 2.0 won't have bootable USB drives show up in the boot menu(holding option on start-up), although they can still be booted from USB via Open Firmware.

    As you probably found out, installing from USB 1.1 is SLOW. I suspect the reason why it was officially deprecated(although not unofficially as I mentioned) when USB 2.0 made its way to Macs was that Apple wanted to push people toward Firewire for those applications-i.e. their own technology. I can recall booting a TiBook once from a Leopard install on an external hard drive, and it took probably 15 minutes to reach a working desk top.

    By the way, I have terrible luck-as a general rule-burning DL-DVDs. I generally just grab my pressed disks, although I prefer to minimize handling them. I actually have a couple of pre-made Leopard images already set up with my preferences that I usually clone over via TDM. If nothing else, it saves the update dance(2 restarts in Leopard). The difference in Tiger is even more dramatic, since it takes about 5 restarts to get it fully updated.
     
  14. MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #14
    Probably because you used a DVD plus format disc. DVD minus is closest to an original pressed disc and better for compatibility.
     
  15. ITguy2016 Suspended

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    #15
    In this case the issue is most likely the media he is using is dual layer and the optical drive in the computer he's inquiring about cannot read dual layer discs. That was the exact situation I had yesterday when I went to install Leopard on the dual G5 I just picked up. I have two discs...an upgrade disc (which is original media) and a full install (which is not original but a burned dual layer disc).

    I attempted to use the full install to avoid having to install Tiger (the OS on the hard drive was Panther and the Leopard upgrade will not upgrade from Panther). The system would not recognize the dual layer media and ejected it. I then booted from the upgrade DVD to see if it would boot and it did. Thus I had to wipe the drive, install Tiger, and then install Leopard off of the upgrade media.

    I am going to see if there's a way I can convert the dual layer media to single layer so I can boot directly from it on systems which do not have dual layer drives. Though I won't spend a lot of time on it. This is the first time in years that I had to install Leopard on a system. In fact aside from the system I just purchased everything else has dual layer drives making it a non-issue for all but this one system.
     
  16. MagicBoy, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016

    MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #16
    All DVD drives will read dual layer pressed discs. I'm not quite understanding your point.
     
  17. DeltaMac, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016

    DeltaMac macrumors 604

    DeltaMac

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    #17
    Agree with MagicBoy ^ ^
    Would older DVD drives be able to show DVD movies, unless they can read dual-layer DVDs?
    I think I would change the wording to "All DVD drives are capable of reading dual-layer disks"
    A worn-out, or just a dirty lens can interfere with that capability, however.
    A G5 is pretty simple to swap in a newer DVD burner. Third-party (generic) DL burners are available, and a good upgrade for an original Superdrive in G5s.
     
  18. ITguy2016 Suspended

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    #18
    This is incorrect. At least I've never heard such is the case until now.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 11, 2016 ---
    That's interesting...something I was unaware of. I'm going to check it in my Mac now.
     
  19. MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #19
    Proof please. If needs be I'll dig out a 1999 vintage Creative Labs DVD-Rom drive and the copy of (the awful) Godzilla movie that came with it. ;)
     
  20. MysticCow macrumors 6502a

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    #20
    Are you sure you didn't get a free DVD drive with the purchase of the awful Godzilla movie? :p
     
  21. MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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  22. ITguy2016 Suspended

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    #22
    What proof would you find acceptable? I am going off of my own personal experience using two Leopard discs:
    • An original Apple Leopard disc. This disc is marked as a DVD (as opposed to dual layer) and is identified by Disk Utility as a DVD-ROM when inserted into all of the Mac computers I tested.
    • A self burned DVD+R DL containing Leopard. This disc is identified by Disk Utility as a DVD+R DL disc.
    For each of these discs I tested them in the following systems:
    • A 2004 dual core PowerMac G5. According to EveryMac this system contains a DVD drive. There is no indication it has a dual layer drive.
    • A late 2006 MacBook. According to EveryMac this system contains a dual layer DVD drive.
    • A 2010 Mac Pro. According to EveryMac this system contains a dual layer DVD drive.
    • A mid 2012 rMBP. This system does not contain a DVD drive however I connected Apple's USB SuperDrive which is known to be a dual layer drive.
    For the PowerMac and MacBook I attempted to boot both discs. The PowerMac refused to boot the dual layer disc but did boot the original Apple disc. For the MacBook I was able to boot both discs. For the Mac Pro I did not attempt to boot either disc. For the rMBP I did not attempt to boot either disc as this system does not support Leopard.

    After running this very basic testing the results were as expected: The system which does not have a DL DVD was unable to boot the dual layer DVD. The systems which do have dual layer DVD drives were able to boot from both discs (the MacBook) and / or was able to read both discs.

    Not a great sample size but matches my expectations. Perhaps Apple prevents DL discs from booting on non-DL drives?
     
  23. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #23
    The Apple factory Leopard disk is a dual layer disk. It's 8gb-there's no way around it being DL considering that it's on a single side of a single disk.

    By your own admission, the 2004 G5 had no trouble with the pressed DL disk.

    A DVD+R DL disk a different animal. +R is a different standard than -R, and older drives can be picky. They usually handle -R better than +R.

    BTW, did you attempt to read the burned disk in the G5(not boot)? Disks that are "touchy"-rather SL or DL-can will often read but not boot.
     
  24. MagicBoy, Jul 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016

    MagicBoy macrumors 68040

    MagicBoy

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    #24
    As previously stated - there are no DVD reader drives that are not dual layer. It's a basic component of the DVD Video and DVD-ROM specification. I've got a 2001 PowerBook Titanium 667MHz with a Combo (DVD-ROM/CD-RW) drive. It boots and install an original Leopard retail DVD. Now as to your DVD+R DL copy? Probably not as the standard postdates the drive.

    When it comes to the recordable format there are single layer only 4.7GB writers (in both competing minus and plus standards) which were common until around 2005. Going with the PowerBook example from before, you'd need a late 2005 DLSD model to get the dual-layer Superdrive.
     
  25. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    #25
    Don't forget your first Macbook Pro, though, which had an SL writer...

    That's not overly relevant, though.
     

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