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Was thunderbolt a big rip-off?
- Thread starter bungiefan89
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Well, I have to disagree with Thunderbolt working with displayport or effecting that functionality. I just returned a 2011 imac wiith SSD because thunderbolt does not work with my monitor, or has a problem with a DVI to display port voltage issue that effects waking a external monitor from sleep.
That is why you are seeing a 'special' cord with chips in them to regualte voltage. But the problem with that is it will only work with another mini display port device or monitor like a Cinema Display. How about DVI, HDMI? Most monitors do not have Mini-display port on them.
It is a known issue and Apple engineers are working on it, but to say that it will not effect that function is wrong.
Is it a rip off, no. Is it ready for prime time, not by a long shot. Kind of useless to people who need that display port now, as opposed to then they get around to fixing the issue.
Intel's chipset doesn't support Thunderbolt either so is there no point in having that?
What a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that TB is not an Apple technology, it is in fact an Intel technology, and is being rolled out by Intel. Apple worked with Intel to develop the technology (I've read contradictory articles that say that Apple approached Intel to develop the idea, and articles that claim that Intel approached Apple with the idea...) Regardless, they worked together and as a result Apple's products were able to launch the connector first. I don't know that this was a benefit, actually - as Apple then comes under fire until the peripheral makers catch up. The 2nd and 3rd computer makers to launch products with TB will benefit from Apple's initial slogging through uncharted waters, it seems to me.
Any company is welcome to use Intel's TB technology. Apple chose to use it in a Display Port connector, Sony chose to use it in an USB connector (interestingly, since the USB consortium has previously stated that the USB connector can only be used for USB ports.)
I'm thinking that this is missing it's /sarcasm tag..... with that assumption, I will add that TB, when implemented with optical fibre, will also allow long runs of cable, much longer than anything currently used except for ethernet. I don't know about others, but personally I find it extremely limiting that my computer has to be within 5 meters (or less) of just about everything I want hooked up to it (with a few rare exceptions). I can't put things where I want them, I need to sit in a web of cords and printers and scanners, and I need to fuss about whether any particular external HDD needs to be located close to my Mac Pro, or whether it can hang off of an USB hub, etc etc
If TB allows me to move some things around, that in itself will be worth the wait and any extra cost - for me.
So..... imho, no - not a rip-off. Not by a long shot. Just a bit slow to come out.
I'm very curious about this supposed delay on hardware releases, as we wait for Lion. I wonder if there isn't also an element of TB to the release delays? New peripherals? New form factors?
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I know it's Intel technology but their current chipsets don't have native TB support, it needs a separate chip as do current PCs featuring USB 3.0.
Next year's Ivy Bridge will include USB 3.0 but Thunderbolt won't be integrated into the chipset..
where is the rip off ? it was only meant to boost sales of Mac's and you bought one , so the thunderbold port was a great marketing strategy to bring people to buy new Mac's and it worked
apart from that the thunderbold port will have the same destiny as the firewire port loved by some and found accessories for it are just to expesive to make sense for others, so a lot big manufacturers of computer accessories will just ignore its existence
but at least it makes the manufacturers of adapters happy
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Didn't Apple get Thunderbolt almost a whole year before it is scheduled to be included by other manufacturers? If this is true then it isn't surprising that there are few peripherals supporting the technology yet, as macs are like what? 10% of the market share? Even less when going on just hardware?
Give it time to mature, I am always up for technology if it is more advanced than what came before. One of the main reasons that I love IT is because the technology is always advancing and increasing power and speed at an amazing rate. I'd hate to see this great technology get betamax'd. I don't dislike USB 3.0 but it's inferior to Thunderbolt and therefore should not win.
Give it time to mature, I am always up for technology if it is more advanced than what came before. One of the main reasons that I love IT is because the technology is always advancing and increasing power and speed at an amazing rate. I'd hate to see this great technology get betamax'd. I don't dislike USB 3.0 but it's inferior to Thunderbolt and therefore should not win.
To announce thunderbolt and not have anything to show for it until 4 months is a complete joke. Not to mention it is out of normal consumer reach for now. I have faith in Apple, but they could have handled the process better. USB had companies on board to create products before USB was released.
I'll agree that Apple's penchant for secrecy may have hurt them here. I can understand why Apple decided to not go to the peripheral makers, though in this case I don't agree.
I think they wanted a clear head-start on their competitors. Which they got, technically. But it seems to be a bit of a wasted opportunity since there wasn't really anyway for the early adopters to get behind the technology and start a groundswell.
Intel does not design the boards, they just help Apple in working bugs out of Apples design. There is no reason to not have a USB3 controller on it as there are many intel based laptops that have USB3, some even smaller than the MBP.
You really have no idea how the industry works.
And you supposedly know what the agreements are between Apple and Intel?
You use other companies and laptops as examples and go on about industry but since when has Apple done anything like anyone else? Its what makes apple Apple.
Not rip-off, big failure.
Apple could rectify the issue by making/giving out a Thunderbolt -> USB 3.0 converter
I do partly. My friend works at Intel in the section that designed Sandybridge, he started in the department that helps external venters(read:Apple) trouble shoot problems in their design. Companies have issues, like the issue HP originally had with the ENVY14 having a "CPU whine" and he helped them figure out the cause and how they could correct it. They do NOT how ever design the boards. They do create a "suggested layout" for a few companies, but that is all.
My company provided old Winblows laptop (Toshiba), has FireWire.
From your link.
Problem not solved.
At what cost? Daisy chain two devices. Two cables, $100. It takes me three seconds to transfer a file from a $5.00 USB drive now. So I spend several hundred bucks to save 2.5 seconds twice a day?
True, but that wasn't the OP's point. Also how many home users have 12TB arrays ? Replace a TB with HDMI, and you can hook up XBox, DVR, BlueRay, or whatever and use the monitor as display. Plus you still have a TB port .
That most home users won't ever use. Or would have been better suited by a less expensive USB or Ethernet device.
Yes, because it's very inconvenient to have a small external drive on your desk. I really want to spend $300 on a 100 foot cable so my $80 hard drive doesn't have to sit on the desk. Talk about a mess of cabling. Buy a router with a USB port. Networked printers for home use have been around for years. I know, mine is six years old. Printer is plugged into the router in the spare bedroom, right next to the networked scanner. Or get an all in one device.
My point is that it only needed one TB and an HDMI. Placed in your offspring's or your bedroom, they have a PC, a monitor for XBox, Wii, DVR, ect. No need for a TV. Much more useful than an unused TB port.
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http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10549 no price yet but expect it to be around the $1000 Mark or just below
as for the speed of thunderbold it would be money wasted to fit a normal s-ata in a thunderbold external enclosure as the speed will be still limited by s-ata
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Well, for my purposes TB would be fantastic provided devices start appearing. The idea of using one port for display, HD, SSD, printer, scanner etc. has a certain elegance. So far as I can tell from the article I have read, TB is actually game changer because its bandwidth is sufficiently high to handle all types of external devices in various combinations. I just can't see USB reaching this level without using active electronics in the cable like TB does.
I'm not one of those people who believe that TB is going to be solve everyone's problems. I do believe that TB will be useful to enough people to make it worthwhile to include in on Macs. I've never once used the ExpressCard slot on my MBP. Oh well. But I know enough people do/did that I'm willing to pay the extra $ for the feature I don't use in order to get what I do need.
I have two USB hubs taped together to provide the number of USB outlets I need. One is plugged into the Mac Pro directly, the other is plugged into the back of the Cinema Display.
With TB I could run a single cable to the shelves behind me, attach a hub or two and plug in everything I don't need sitting within an arm's length. I'd have more room for stuff I need handy, it would be much quieter. I'd be happier. I recognized that a USB HDD connected by TB would still be slow as molasses. But just having it out of sight/hearing would be wonderful until I upgrade them to FW or better.
I'm a photographer that works with large files. Soon as I open up an image in Photoshop they're about 200 MB. Once I start working on them they get into the multi GB range real fast. If I want to move a folder of those, it takes a longer than 3 seconds. Same thing for people who work (professionally) with music or video.
Works if your needs are for entertainment.
Currently I have 3 USB external HDDs, and a FW drive. When I started collecting HDDs my images were more modest in size and I could deal with the USB transfer times. Now I'm moving to FW for the speed. I also have a pro-level scanner (FW), an office printer (USB), and a photo printer that is in fact ethernet capable. It was great when the network connection worked, but something's happened to it and I've reverted to USB for now. I also have a DVD burner that is Lightscribe capable (USB), a monitor calibration unit that stays plugged into monitor the ambient light (USB), and a UPS unit connected to system (USB).... and pile of papers that actually need to be on the desk, as opposed to the HDDs, printers, scanner, and other cruft that I try to put up on shelves. Since my system is a Mac Pro it sits on the floor, and I adds a good meter at least to how long my cable runs are.
I have two USB hubs taped together to provide the number of USB outlets I need. One is plugged into the Mac Pro directly, the other is plugged into the back of the Cinema Display.
With TB I could run a single cable to the shelves behind me, attach a hub or two and plug in everything I don't need sitting within an arm's length. I'd have more room for stuff I need handy, it would be much quieter. I'd be happier. I recognized that a USB HDD connected by TB would still be slow as molasses. But just having it out of sight/hearing would be wonderful until I upgrade them to FW or better.
Only if you use your system for entertainment only....
Yes, but I also mentioned several times " most home users", which you are not. There is a reason you spent the extra money for a Mac Pro, and not an iMac.
Nope, it's only HDMI out, not in.
Why don't you install an internal 3Tb drive or two and eliminate the external drives ? Or run a single USB cable to your shelf and connect them to a USB hub? Or purchase a DROBO or LG NAS box (LG makes several that include a BluRay burner). [/QUOTE]
A dorm room, a bed room, a studio apartment. The reasons are many. You have a 27 inch monitor built into an all in one, that is wasted because it has two TB ports and not a way to use it as a monitor for other things.
I am not against TB. I am for it. There needs to be TB ports out in the wild before manufactures start producing TB devices. I just agree with the OP that it was a waste to put two TB ports at the expense of the video in.
Critical mass of systems isn't there yet.. mostly Intel's fault. Give it another year.
It took USB3 more than a year before its first peripheral shipped, so it is not like TB is "waaaay behind" what's normal.
And sure, the TB stuff that's already shipped is expensive, just like how many other high performance products are...but before having too much angst, be sure to baseline comparable products. For example, which Drobo compares to a Promise R4? You're probably at a $700 starting point, etc.
Finally, TB hasn't come forth as quickly as it could-or-should have, because Intel blew their delivery date for the Developer's Kit by easily 6 months.
-hh
Thoughts...
I never see the back of mine so it doesn't bother me, it's wall mounted but..
Apple hasn't made many if any external Hard Drives for Firewire or USB 2. So I didn't think they would start doing it with Thunderbolt.
If you want to connect an external monitor or TV you don't need a Thunderbolt adaptor. I have a 2nd monitor plugged in with a MiniDisplay -> VGA atm until I can pick up a Thunderbolt display. So just go grab a MiniDisplay to whatever adaptor.
Also, you are not losing anything by having the ports on there. The price didn't increase due to Thunderbolt. One could also say the Firewire port is a ripoff if they didn't own any firewire equipment ya know?
The cord is laughable due to having to have hardware installed into each connector. I believe this is because that is how Intel designed it.
It's hard to have a 3rd party company dump money on R&D for externals, cameras, monitors, etc for a brand new technology that they aren't sure will stick around or become a standard. Think back to HD-DVD not long ago.
***My own problems with it are that 3rd party companies are charging such a ridiculous price for anything related to Thunderbolt. At least some of the things we've seen from CES.
Example: The Belkin Thunderbolt Dock for $300.
I still haven't seen WD's prices for their Thunderbolt MyBook series.
A little update on this thread. (Thanks for bumping it by the way! ) I'm still kind of unimpressed by thunderbolt. Almost a year later, and the technology in my opinion hasn't quite taken off yet.
Sure, there's great potential here, and I am definitely looking forward to the inclusion of the technology in the broader PC market some time this April... which in theory should increase the number of thunderbolt devices and lower their cost over time. Right?
But in the mean time, I'm stuck with this set-up in my dorm...
Yeah, it's pretty cool. When I'm using the iMac, I have an extended desktop via the 19" monitor; when I'm using my Xbox, I put the monitor in front of the iMac which plays sound while I get the image through the monitor (the monitor's speakers are made of cement and fail). And it works well, all things considered!
However... If the iMac simply had an HDMI port on the back, I'm quite sure I would be able to connect the Xbox directly to the iMac and not have to deal with an extra screen. But of course, that's not possible because the iMac has no HDMI ports or even VGA or DVI ports... the only way to access this ultra-sexy 27" display is through the thunderbolt ports.
5 or 6 years from now, when this super-powerful computer is obsolete, I want to be able to still use the magnificent screen! And the success of Thunderbolt is directly tied to that desire of mine. That's why this is all such a big issue for me.
) I'm still kind of unimpressed by thunderbolt. Almost a year later, and the technology in my opinion hasn't quite taken off yet.Sure, there's great potential here, and I am definitely looking forward to the inclusion of the technology in the broader PC market some time this April... which in theory should increase the number of thunderbolt devices and lower their cost over time. Right?
But in the mean time, I'm stuck with this set-up in my dorm...
Yeah, it's pretty cool. When I'm using the iMac, I have an extended desktop via the 19" monitor; when I'm using my Xbox, I put the monitor in front of the iMac which plays sound while I get the image through the monitor (the monitor's speakers are made of cement and fail). And it works well, all things considered!
However... If the iMac simply had an HDMI port on the back, I'm quite sure I would be able to connect the Xbox directly to the iMac and not have to deal with an extra screen. But of course, that's not possible because the iMac has no HDMI ports or even VGA or DVI ports... the only way to access this ultra-sexy 27" display is through the thunderbolt ports.
5 or 6 years from now, when this super-powerful computer is obsolete, I want to be able to still use the magnificent screen! And the success of Thunderbolt is directly tied to that desire of mine. That's why this is all such a big issue for me.
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But in the mean time, I'm stuck with this set-up in my dorm...
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Yeah, it's pretty cool. When I'm using the iMac, I have an extended desktop via the 19" monitor; when I'm using my Xbox, I put the monitor in front of the iMac which plays sound while I get the image through the monitor (the monitor's speakers are made of cement and fail). And it works well, all things considered!
However... If the iMac simply had an HDMI port on the back, I'm quite sure I would be able to connect the Xbox directly to the iMac and not have to deal with an extra screen. But of course, that's not possible because the iMac has no HDMI ports or even VGA or DVI ports... the only way to access this ultra-sexy 27" display is through the thunderbolt ports.
5 or 6 years from now, when this super-powerful computer is obsolete, I want to be able to still use the magnificent screen! And the success of Thunderbolt is directly tied to that desire of mine. That's why this is all such a big issue for me.
I'm in the exact same boat as you are. I have to keep using my 15-inch Sony screen for my Xbox 360. I guess all we can do is wait for Kanex to bring out another Kanex XD, this time thunderbolt compatible. However this seems unlikely as of yet.
As seen from CES 2012, there's more products coming out with Thunderbolt - accessories and computers. I think I only saw display port TB devices, could be wrong though. I think Sony is still the only one with a USB-TB connection.
Either way, going to be another year before it's even decent, probably. USB 3.0 is a much simpler step for manufacturers and users to take.
Either way, going to be another year before it's even decent, probably. USB 3.0 is a much simpler step for manufacturers and users to take.