Wasn't there something special about Tiger that just feels missing in Leopard?

Discussion in 'macOS' started by I'm a Mac, Jan 27, 2009.

  1. I'm a Mac macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    #1
    I love all of the new features of Leopard, but I feel like that feeling of rock-solid stability in Tiger is no longer there- it was indescribable, but I think others noticed that it was missing in Leopard. I send an email to all of the high-up people at Apple:

    Dear Steve, Tim, Phil, Bertrand and the rest of the Apple Team,

    First of all, I'd like to thank all of you for your efforts on many phenomenal operating systems over the years and I really appreciate all of your hard work that makes my use of the "personal computer" so much more enjoyable.

    Although Leopard definitely has some mind-blowing new features that not only make our lives easier but puts it light years ahead of the competition, I think there's something missing. Mac OS X "Tiger" had something really special- it was this indescribable feeling of stability that made it such an incredible OS to use.

    I'd like to ask you guys, what happened to this feeling? I really miss Tiger. (Not to mention its spotlight window.) I mean there was just something about it that gave you this awesome feeling when you used it, and it's just not there anymore. I know Leopard and its new features are awesome and I'm not discrediting any of that, it's just something was lost in this new OS- that rock-solid stability that not only I, but the entire Mac community miss dearly.

    So, even though I really appreciate your hard work into these compelling features that make Mac OS X so great, I'd like to know what happened to that "rock-solid" feeling, and I truly hope that it will once again rise in a future OS.

    And sure enough, about 20 minutes later I get an email back from Bertrand Serlet (Senior Vice President Mac Software

    David,

    What specifically do you feel is not rock-solid in Leopard? Is it a specific application, or set of applications? Something else?

    Thanks for the help getting to the bottom of this,

    -- Bertrand

    So, I was wondering if you guys could help me (and Bertrand) try to fill put that Tiger feel back into Mac OS X?
     
  2. Chundles macrumors G4

    Chundles

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    Jul 4, 2005
    #2
    I've found Leopard to be much more mature than Tiger. It feels rock solid to me.
     
  3. SkyBell macrumors 604

    SkyBell

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    Location:
    Texas, unfortunately.
    #3
    Personally, I feel like Tiger got the Aqua interface just right, and Leopard kind of messed it up with the transparent menu bar...

    But that's just me.
     
  4. TennisandMusic

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    #4
    Might be the appearance. I was actually working on a G5 that still has Tiger on it. I use Leopard at home. I noticed Tiger feels a bit more workstation or "industrial" like perhaps. Leopard feels a bit more needlessly flashy. I think the dock is a prime example of this. And the default spacey background. It's just not necessary.

    Maybe I'm way off.
     
  5. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    Indianapolis
    #5
    I really miss how Spotlight worked in Tiger when you went to Show All.
     
  6. lordthistle macrumors 6502

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    Feb 29, 2008
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    Italy
    #6
    Frankly, I do not miss anything from Tiger (may be just the live view for minimized windows - not a critical feature). I think Leopard is just right. I cannot imagine what you are referring to.

    - thistle
     
  7. SimonJ macrumors regular

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    Location:
    Czech Republic
    #7
    For me it's definitely the performance. The genie effect has been choppy since Leopard's release. The beachball appears too much and doesn't go away fast enough.
     
  8. Tex-Twil macrumors 68020

    Tex-Twil

    Joined:
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    Europe
    #8
    I have to agree with this answer. It is difficult to see what you are talking about. The "Tiger feeling" is a bit subjective characteristic of an OS.

    cheers and good luck,
    Tex
     
  9. Sorkvild macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007
    #9
    Perhaps Leopard just does not have the eye of the Tiger...
     
  10. messedkid macrumors 6502

    messedkid

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    Location:
    Oshawa, ON
    #10
    :D




    Has anybody who purchased Leopard, gone back to Tiger? I've thought about it a couple of times, but in the end, I'd hate to give Leopard the "Vista" treatment. :eek:

    Leopard has made my macbook a wee bit slower. I loved how in Tiger, when I would click on an app on my dock, and BAM! there it was, ready for me to abuse electrons like some kind of rapist. Now, instead of being able to use and abuse my applications, I am forced to watch a beachball. A colourful beachball spin and twirl on my screen, as I wait, and wait, AND WAIT!
    Ok, overexageration about the waiting, but it's just not as fast as I had thought an upgraded OS would be.

    I really hope Snow Leopard brings back the speed that I crave.


    PS. I find that my macbook with its stock 512mb RAM, launched apps faster than the same macbook with 2gb of RAM. Maybe I'm just going crazy, but I don't remember having to wait this long for some tunes.
     
  11. ppc750fx macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    #11
    Dear Bertrand,

    In short: the UI.

    I've used Mac OS X since its first public beta, and while Tiger's UI was certainly more refined than the the Aqua interface that first premiered in DP3, it was still quite clearly a direct evolution of the original design.

    Leopard, in my opinion, breaks that trend. Just a few examples:

    - Where Tiger featured white-accented "unified" elements, Leopard features a darker grey.

    - Tiger's menu bar looks soft and glossy. Leopard's menu bar features transparency. While this effect looks good with some wallpapers, it often results in giving the menu bar a blurry grey appearance.

    - Tiger's Dock is similar to previous release versions of OS X. Leopard's 3D dock is not only a usability regression for some users (who find it hard to discern which applications are running), but also represents something that bothers many users: un-needed eye candy, flash just for the sake of being flashy.

    Each one of the UI changes are, in and of themselves, fairly minor. Their cumulative effect, however is substantial: where Tiger's UI "feel" was that of a refined OS, the UI of which was developed over several generations and guided by years of user feedback, Leopard appears to be an overhaul for no specific reason -- change for the sake of being different.

    Few if any OS developers have been able to give a UI the same level of refinement and polish that Apple has. The UI changes made in Leopard may not significantly impact the usability of the interface -- but they certainly do impact user perception. Whether the changes were made in response to competing operating systems or because of current design trends, they appear as a reaction not to user needs, but to market pressures.

    Apple's famous "Think Different" slogan may have publicized your trademark uniqueness, but the years of refining the Mac OS UI in response to user needs rather than market trends has demonstrated your commitment to it.

    Sincerely,
    <name>
     
  12. dickie001x macrumors member

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    Feb 13, 2008
    #12
    Me too - Tiger's Spotlight was SO much more user friendly.
     
  13. I'm a Mac thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    #13
    So I told him what I felt about the UI (before you wrote that out, sorry)

    Bertrand-

    Another thing I forgot to mention before is that I think it may be the appearance that might contribute to the lack of the "rock-solid" feeling. I think for the most part in Tiger, the aqua appearance was finally perfect (I understand the eliminated brushed metal) but the dock, menu bar, buttons, scrolls, kinda all came together and were coordinated in the in the best way possible since the beginning of Mac OS X. I think that by changing the appearance so much in Leopard, you kinda threw us veteran Mac users off a bit. I mean why not give the users some options in terms of appearance? I understand the need to look unified but if we could get the old tiger appearance back, maybe it would give some of that secure feeling back.

    Thanks again,
    David

    On Jan 28, 2009, at 1:43 AM, Bertrand Serlet wrote:

    We try to stay away from options because if you make a system with one path rather than two paths you put all your energy in designing the best path rather than divide your energy in two (or worse divide it unevenly and have one mediocre alternative).
    Also for the user its simpler without a choice.

    For any one preference this is not a big deal, but when multiplied by a thousand, you create a mess.

    -- Bertrand
     
  14. mikes70mustang macrumors 68000

    mikes70mustang

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    US
    #14
    Not me, sounds like its your setup, not leopard
     
  15. yousoldtheworld macrumors member

    yousoldtheworld

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    Jan 6, 2009
    Location:
    nowhere, Indiana
    #15
    As someone who just switched to Leopard a month ago, I'm going to have to say that I like Leopard better.

    Don't get me wrong, I had no problem with Tiger and it served me well. But for my personal needs, Leopard feels just as stable and has some added perks that I enjoy. I'll admit that I like the appearance changes, as well.

    I wouldn't say that Leopard is perfect, but I, personally, am happy with it .
     
  16. eXan macrumors 601

    eXan

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Location:
    Russia
    #16
    The only thing I miss from Tiger is Spotlight that could search in Library folder >_>

    I also think Tiger's appearance is very toy-ish and dare I say it, ugly. Leopard's UI looks more professional, refined, neutral to me.
     
  17. edgew8 macrumors regular

    edgew8

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    Dec 8, 2008
    #17
    I agree that Tiger was more unified feeling and is definitely faster than Leopard on older Mac hardware. Leopard just adds so many features that are necessary to me now. Leopard really has grown on me. When using Tiger on the family computer downstairs it just feels too simple and lacking and too white and sterile.

    Stability is the same for me, the app I have the most problems with on Tiger and Leopard is safari. but I fixed that by installing Firefox :D
     
  18. Amdahl macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    #18
    I have a G5 that I keep on Tiger w/Classic.

    I like Leopard, but Tiger has a faster user interface response time. There is no doubt about it. They changed something in the kernel, or the display layer, and Leopard is just not as snap. Like the difference between 30 frames per second, and 60 frames per second. Or maybe something increased the latency in processing the keyboard+mouse input.

    The other difference is probably in the brightness of the interface. Leopard is darker, Tiger is brighter.

    For the person who is complaining about slow loading on Leopard (vs Tiger), try defragging your disk.
     
  19. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    Up the irons
  20. Theophany macrumors 6502a

    Theophany

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    #20
    Your screen name could not be any more appropriate. :D
     
  21. darkcurse macrumors 6502a

    darkcurse

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Location:
    Sydney
    #21
    The thing I miss most about Tiger was the speed at which it started up. I don't usually shut down or restart my machine unless there's an update which requires it or (heaven forbid) a kernel panic which to be honest I've had more on Tiger than I've had on Leopard but that for me is it. In Tiger, I remember being able to instantly use my system as soon as the menu bar came up but on Leopard, I seem to have to wait for the dock to launch, if I click on Finder immediately after it starts up I get the beach ball. Even so, I think quicklook is a nice feature but its gotta be more refined, it takes 5~10 seconds sometimes to see my Applications folder! It was instantaneous on Tiger as I recall.
     
  22. I'm a Mac thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    #22
    So, with your suggestions, I emailed him again:

    Bertrand-

    While I totally appreciate that philosophy (As too many options often produce mediocrity; just look at Vista), let me just expand on what I was saying before. Each one of the UI changes are, in and of themselves, fairly minor. Their cumulative effect, however is substantial: where Tiger's UI "feel" was that of a refined OS, the UI of which was developed over several generations and guided by years of user feedback, Leopard appears to be an overhaul for no specific reason -- change for the sake of being different.

    Few if any OS developers have been able to give a UI the same level of refinement and polish that Apple has. The UI changes made in Leopard may not significantly impact the usability of the interface -- but they certainly do impact user perception. Whether the changes were made in response to competing operating systems or because of current design trends, they appear as a reaction not to user needs, but to market pressures.

    Apple's famous "Think Different" slogan may have publicized your trademark uniqueness, but the years of refining the Mac OS UI in response to user needs rather than market trends has demonstrated your commitment to it.

    Now once again, I do appreciate your hard work into these new touches of Leopard, and while they do appear nice, I do think they're the reason why many of us don't feel that comfortable user experience.

    And he responded:

    Thanks again for expanding on your point. I do understand what you say. We are trying to balance polishing what we have versus innovating (which always starts by moving to a different point in the design space, and a point that has had less air time). We certainly keep learning as we walk this delicate balance.

    So it seems like he really does care, and it does give me some satisfaction that the folks at apple care what I have to say.
     
  23. Bimmi macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    #23
    I genuinely loathe the aesthetics of Leopard – pretty much every cosmetic change over Tiger is a disaster, and it's easily the tackiest thing I've seen come out of Apple since those Technicolor-yawn iMacs of old. Add to that the usability trainwreck that is Stacks along with a small plague of other odd/annoying/needless UI tweaks, and it adds up to an OS I have never, ever warmed up to, despite its obvious superiority over Tiger in other areas.

    It's encouraging that your feedback is being taken at least somewhat seriously (i.e. read), so maybe I'll drop them a line myself. I have high hopes for Snow Leopard, but I really hope they give the GUI a bath while they're at it.
     
  24. kolax macrumors G3

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    Mar 20, 2007
    #24
    Definitely +1 on that.
     
  25. Turmoil macrumors regular

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    Jul 2, 2008
    #25
    You're going to have to give them more details. I read your email twice and I have no idea what you are trying to express. I've found Leopard to be just as "rock solid" as Tiger. If you want Apple to change something, you've got thier attention. Be specific.
     

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