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Water confirmed, Mars researchers look for life

xenobiology...

johnnyjibbs said:
Yes but we're discovering many new species just here on Earth every month even today, and many of them (at the bottom of the deep ocean, for example) look nothing like anything we know of. It would be impossible to tell a Martian bacterium from a new species of bacteria on Earth. Cue all that controversy about that Martian rock sample with the supposed life form in it around 10 years ago.
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Actually, it should be trivially easy to distinguish extraterrestrial life from Earth-Native life. All terrestrial life uses either DNA or RNA, and essentially all life on earth uses the same triplet code for translating these nucleic acid genomes into proteins (there are special cases, but they don't really pertain). So, if we found an organism that used a completely different information storage biochemistry, or even one that used DNA but employed a different code, we could be almost certain it didn't evolve on earth.

This is one of the (many) very strong pieces of evidence that all life on earth is monophyletic (evolved from a common ancestor). If life evolved independently elsewhere, it would be expected to have a different genetic code, at least.

If we found bacteria-like organisms on Mars that had the same genetic code, that would be a more difficult piece of data to interpret.

Cheers
 
bryanc said:
Actually, it should be trivially easy to distinguish extraterrestrial life from Earth-Native life. All terrestrial life uses either DNA or RNA, and essentially all life on earth uses the same triplet code for translating these nucleic acid genomes into proteins (there are special cases, but they don't really pertain). So, if we found an organism that used a completely different information storage biochemistry, or even one that used DNA but employed a different code, we could be almost certain it didn't evolve on earth.

This is one of the (many) very strong pieces of evidence that all life on earth is monophyletic (evolved from a common ancestor). If life evolved independently elsewhere, it would be expected to have a different genetic code, at least.

If we found bacteria-like organisms on Mars that had the same genetic code, that would be a more difficult piece of data to interpret.

Cheers
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Well done, that's a very good point. (Unless of course those stories about the origin of life coming from interstellar cloud from outer space turn out to be true ;) :D).

You would expect any life on Mars to have evolved from its own primordal soup and therefore evolved differently and independently to that on Earth, to suit the unique environmental challenges on Mars. So yes, it should be trivially easy, you're right.
 
~Shard~ said:
This is really a moot point though - there is life out there, we don't need bacteria in water on Mars to prove that. Anyone who thinks we are alone is pretty naive in my opinion. Whether they find life or not on Mars, it doesn't really matter to me as it won't affect what I already know to be the truth. Finding life/remnants of life on Mars is somewhat inconsequential really (other than for study purposes), but then again, so is physically propelling tubes of metal into orbit to do space "exploration" and calling ourselves an advanced civilization... :cool:
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I agree completely. Except that I would go as far as to that it would be downright arogant to believe Humans are the only intelligent life out there - or that our planet, or solar system, is the only life.

There IS other life out there beyond our planet, solar system, and galaxy - lots of it. Some life primitive in comparison to ours, others so wildly advanced the human mind cannot even begin to fathom such a thing.

It is not a matter of IF....but where.

Interestingly, I believe it is much closer than any of us think. Not necessarily Mars, but I beleive our solar system has quite a surprise in store for us in the future.
 
Josh said:
Interestingly, I believe it is much closer than any of us think. Not necessarily Mars, but I beleive our solar system has quite a surprise in store for us in the future.
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That's an interesting little statement. Personally, I think Jupiter's and Saturns moons are some of the most interesting things in the solar system and have potential for life (i.e. Europa, Callisto, Io, Ganymede and Titan).
 
johnnyjibbs said:
Personally, I think Jupiter's and Saturns moons are some of the most interesting things in the solar system and have potential for life (i.e. Europa, Callisto, Io, Ganymede and Titan).
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Exactly what I had in mind ;)

They know there are moons out there covered in ice - possibly hiding entire oceans.

Looking for life on Mars, spending billions just to prove the existence of water seems ridiculous. Water beyond our planet does exsist, and could possibly be covering a very protected aquatic environment thriving with life - and not just bacteria either, but complex life.

In my opinion, the time and money is being spent in the wrong place.
 
johnnyjibbs said:
One thing they should have done with the moon landings in the 60s and 70s. They should have left a banana or something on the surface at a point where they knew where it was, and then returned now, 30 years later. If there is no life, it would still be there (and still be edible :eek: :D). However, if it had rotted away, then our answer would be there. The same could be done with Mars.
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that would be assuming that the microorganisms (or martian monkeys) live on the surface and/or that they would be able to derive energy from the same carbon-based energy source. Also the said source could be incredibly poisonous and completely wipe out the species to be discovered.

In any case, it's an experiment simple enough that it should be done. Obviously the food of choice would be a Mars bar.

I cannot remember the theories specifically, but there are those who suggest that there once was a large planet between Mars and Jupiter, as the spacing between planets suggests that there should be a planet where there is merely an asteroid belt.

There is also much speculation fueled by ancient Sumerian (and other) records describing 12-13 planets, instead of our current 10 (or 11 counting Pluto/chiron) Greek mythology with it's 12 gods (plus a thirteenth that lords over the rest) also lends an interesting historical credence to things. There is also the 12 disciples + Jesus (13) the 12 Knights of the Round Table + Arthur, and the 13 Tribes of Israel.

It was theorized that this mystery planet was either (a) thrown out of orbit by a Jupiter moon or by Venus in an enlongated orbit or (b) struck by a galactic interloper (the 13th planet) which came into our solar system causing all kinds of messes. (it is theorized that it also carried off one of Neptunes moons {since Neptune was represented with a trident and now has only two moons, to form Pluto})

from (b) some suggest that earth was created as a part of this struck planet, and that life was brought into this solar system by the interloper who struck it. The rest of the planet was either absorbed by Jupiter, constitutes the asteroid belt, or left with the interloper.
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but if the planet was destroyed upon earth's formation, how would it have been recorded in the myths?
To be there it would have had to be an event occcurring in historical times (less than 10000ys) and would have likely left also a physical (geological) record
 
Josh said:
Except that I would go as far as to that it would be downright arogant to believe Humans are the only intelligent life out there
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Absolutely - if I could describe the human race in one word, when comparing it to the rest of the universe and what is out there, it would be "primitive".

Josh said:
Interestingly, I believe it is much closer than any of us think. Not necessarily Mars, but I beleive our solar system has quite a surprise in store for us in the future.
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But as I said before, "closer" in what respect? Physical distances? Physical distances as we know them really mean nothing and are a flawed model of physics - you can't treat everything as "physical" - whether life is in this solar system or a million light years away, it is all relative. :cool:
 
blackfox said:
I cannot remember the theories specifically, but there are those who suggest that there once was a large planet between Mars and Jupiter, as the spacing between planets suggests that there should be a planet where there is merely an asteroid belt.

There are others who feel the remants of this missing planet make up a large comet flying around somewhere...

In any case, this cosmic collision would've been disastrous to Mars, due to it's proximity to events and the barrage of debris that would've showered down on it.
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How about this - the asteroid belt was a planet, destroyed at some point by some cataclysmic event, and a large meteor did not in fact impact Mars, wiping out life, but rather scorched through its atmosphere, completely ripping it apart. That is what wiped out life on Mars and why Mars has essentially no atmosphere. :cool:
 
wdlove said:
Project Constellation, US may just be the needed boost for space exploration. A way to get us back into orbit, Moon, Mars, and beyond.
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Wait until China gets into the race for Mars. That will be enough to get the money flowing back toward NASA.
 
~Shard~ said:
But as I said before, "closer" in what respect? Physical distances? Physical distances as we know them really mean nothing and are a flawed model of physics - you can't treat everything as "physical" - whether life is in this solar system or a million light years away, it is all relative. :cool:
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Closer as in physical distances.

Relative or not, a given object in or away from our planet is a certain measurable distance from us.

That distance could be light years, kilometers, even inches. May it change over time? Absolutely - but it is still measurable.

If the current assumption is that life beyond our solar system is X "measurable distance away", then what I mean is that I believe life is <X "measurable distance" away. :D
 
Don't panic said:
but if the planet was destroyed upon earth's formation, how would it have been recorded in the myths?
To be there it would have had to be an event occcurring in historical times (less than 10000ys) and would have likely left also a physical (geological) record
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Well, obviously this points to the obvious conclusion that Sumerians were actually extraterrestrials.

Actually, as I admitted, I was trying to remember this stuff from memory and confused competing theories in my head. I believe the mythical references merely reflected the fact that there were once more "heavenly bodies" visible in the sky. How they got there, what they were and where they went is open to debate.
 
Josh said:
Closer as in physical distances.

Relative or not, a given object in or away from our planet is a certain measurable distance from us.

That distance could be light years, kilometers, even inches. May it change over time? Absolutely - but it is still measurable.

If the current assumption is that life beyond our solar system is X "measurable distance away", then what I mean is that I believe life is <X "measurable distance" away. :D
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I completely understand what you're saying. All I'm saying is that this is all true if you only look at physics. Unfortunately, that is only a small part of how the universe actually works - if you look at things from a physical perspective you're only seeing half the picture, if that. Once a person goes beyond looking at things from a purely physical perspective, all sorts of possibilities open up. But I realize it's hard for people in general to ignore their pre-conceived notions about how the universe works. ;)
 
wdlove said:
The Russians are looking for volunteers for a 500 day study. Six volunteers will be separated from the outside world in a capsule like environment. It will include a bedroom, kitchen, and laboratory. This will extend the testing already done in the bed rest studies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4076421.stm
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I couldn't imagine doing something like that. I'm not even claustrophobic, I just need to be active, doing lots of things, interacting with lots of people, etc. etc. - I couldn't handle something like that.
 
~Shard~ said:
I couldn't imagine doing something like that. I'm not even claustrophobic, I just need to be active, doing lots of things, interacting with lots of people, etc. etc. - I couldn't handle something like that.
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I tried to volunteer for a NASA sponsored bed rest study at Tufts University here in Boston. It was for a 45 day period. My wife was against it because of the real medical risk of extended bed rest. Two of them are bone loss with associated muscle loss. The other is the risk of blood clots in the lower extremities, legs, which can be the most serious. I was rejected from the study because of my 6' 8" height. They said that their equipment and protocol wasn't designed for my 80". When told my first reaction was disappointment, look at it as my way to also help in space research. Later reality set in, realized the problems that I could incur.
 
If life is found, I wonder how religion will evolve to encompass these new and unknown developments.
 
Xtremehkr said:
If life is found, I wonder how religion will evolve to encompass these new and unknown developments.
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Depends what religion it is. My guess: different religions would be affected differently.

Christianity for example...I think would be turned completely upside down and leave people confused, worried, losing faith, etc. (The Bible eludes the the Earth being the center of the universe, flat, and rules out all posibility of ET).

Islam...not heavily affected at all. The Koran is open to such ideas, and is much more scientific, so may be more suited for ET (Koran speaks of Big Bang, Earth going around the sun, etc - long before anyone new of such ideas). So I doubt it would have much of an impact here.

And so on...
 
Sorry to delve OT, but Wdlove, you're 6'8"?!

Good lord.

I am glad you are such a gentle, caring soul. With a height like that you could potentially put some serious hurt on someone.

wow.
 
blackfox said:
Sorry to delve OT, but Wdlove, you're 6'8"?!

Good lord.

I am glad you are such a gentle, caring soul. With a height like that you could potentially put some serious hurt on someone.

wow.
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Yes, I have always been a gentle and caring person. There is also the saying that the higher you are the harder you fall. I have always kept that in mind. :D
 
wdlove said:
Yes, I have always been a gentle and caring person. There is also the saying that the higher you are the harder you fall. I have always kept that in mind. :D
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You sound like a wise man, wdlove. :) :cool:
 
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