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Ways Apple copies Windows

M

macbookpro10

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 7, 2006
23
0
After watching the keynote and looking extensively into Leopard, I first must applaud Apple. Tell me what you think about this, but I know how Apple bashes Windows for coping them and taking old technology. But from the keynote it appeared like Apple took a lot of things from Windows. Of course they made it better, but the concepts were really first adopted by Windows.

1) Time Machine - Extended version of Window's System Restore since XP. I don't know why everyone bashes it, every time I used System Restore it always worked for me.
2) Update iChat - Ok this has definitely been apart of Windows Netmeeting. I always used to conference and share Desktop to work on my families computers around the world.
3) Parental Control - Probably a given now adays, but Windows Vista looks like it definitely has more innvoativation and control behind this one. As I can tell from the betas.
4) Spaces - Almost every version of Linux/Unix has the four different desktops switching.
5) Widgets - OK i know old topic, but when the VP said "Gadgets aren't the same thing as widgets", to make a joke that Vista copied OSX, I was just thinking how they took the idea from Konfabulator.

Ok, now I am a huge mac fan. I am not saying this is not a major improvement and I am glad they incorporated this, but just to look at it from a overlook. So I am not sure if this was more innovation as it was improvement from past. I love how apple takes advantage of new technology that no one really perfected until they come out with a solution (ipod, 64bit, huge monitors, etc.) I would just like to see what you guys think about this. Thanks. :)
 
macbookpro10 said:
4) Spaces - Almost every version of Linux/Unix has the four different desktops switching.
Click to expand...
Then what does this have to do with the title of your thread?

5) Widgets - OK i know old topic, but when the VP said "Gadgets aren't the same thing as widgets", to make a joke that Vista copied OSX, I was just thinking how they took the idea from Konfabulator.
Click to expand...
Heh. That one is debatable.
 
macbookpro10 said:
1) Time Machine - Extended version of Window's System Restore since XP. I don't know why everyone bashes it, every time I used System Restore it always worked for me.
Click to expand...

Well, I already use Backup, as a .Mac subscriber, which does what system restore does as well (I think, at least). These types of continuously-updating database filesystems have been around for 20 years, though, so to say that Apple is copying Windows isn't right. They are extending an idea developed a long time ago and making it available to the end user in an (apparently) transparent way.

Remember, mp3 players existed before iPods, but iPods were still an innovation.
 
I pretty much agree with macbookpro10. I've always had the opinion (could be a horrible opinion, though) that apple waited for others to put their ideas out, and then came in late with a pretty kick-ass product that would drastically improve on the others' weaknesses (user interface and looks, pretty much). Though I've only really been following apple since I got my iMac, so really not too long, but that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it, until someone provides good evidence that it's a crap opinion :D
 
macbookpro10 said:
1) Time Machine - Extended version of Window's System Restore since XP. I don't know why everyone bashes it, every time I used System Restore it always worked for me.
Click to expand...
System Restore doesn't always work. Plus System Restore doesn't save your files. It only does Microsoft system files.
2) Update iChat - Ok this has definitely been apart of Windows Netmeeting. I always used to conference and share Desktop to work on my families computers around the world.
Click to expand...
Apple just jumped over Microsoft on this one. Remote video, slideshow. Still lacks a whiteboard though. I'll give points to Microsoft for the whiteboard. But with desktop control, you don't really need a whiteboard methinks.
3) Parental Control - Probably a given now adays, but Windows looks like it definitely has more innvoativation behind this one. As I can tell from now.
Click to expand...
You have to explain this. All I've seen in Windows XP is limited user and admin. No granulation of rights like Tiger.
4) Spaces - Almost every version of Linux/Unix has the four different desktops switching.
Click to expand...
Part of Apple's innovation is the UI. I haven't seen another desktop switching app do what Spaces did.
5) Widgets - OK i know old topic, but when the VP said "Gadgets aren't the same thing as widgets", to make a joke that Vista copied OSX, I was just thinking how they took the idea from Konfabulator.
Click to expand...
Apple had Desktop Accessories back during the 1980's. If they stole from anyone, it's themselves.

I don't understand why people think Apple is telling others that they are first to market with innovations. I know that Apple is not first a lot of the time, but they certainly improve on their usability. It doesn't matter if there are missing features, if you don't use them because they are too hard to.
 
-macbookpro10

Well Sure Apple has copied stuff from windows, but history shows Apple's copies to be far insignificant compare to the other way around.

Your choice of talking points are interesting. If not exactly a 1:1 comparo.

1) Time Machine - hmm, well, I wouldn't say it's lifted from Windows per se. While on the surface it's similar and the end result if successful - is similar, System restor uses shadow files on-disk, whereas Time Machine looks to be a full-clone/sync utility. In any regard, I'd put Time Machine in the bucket of "Oh, good to have, but not groundbreaking"
2) Update iChat - with you on this - again in the bucket of "Oh, good to have, but not groundbreaking"
3) Parental Control - Hmm. Depends on what the file prmissions are called and treated by marketing. File permissions neither can claim as their own.
4) Spaces - waiting to see...
5) Widgets - As mentioned, that's debatable. Konfabulator was on OS X first, and is not to difficult to draw a conclusion that Konfabulator Widgets were an evolution of DesktopDA files from MacOS System 7. Either way, this goes against the title of your thread, Windows copied something on OSX.

You argument is interesting, but not supported well.

If I may interject some ways Apple copies Windows that could help your point:

When "saving as" a file in OSX, if you want to ape a similar filename from something that already exists - click on it and your "Save As" will name itself the same. Windows has had this for a very long time - glad to see it on the Mac side.

Alt-Tab. 'nuff said.

Ok, having trouble now - I know there are others. I'll post when I think of them.
 
After G said:
Apple had Desktop Accessories back during the 1980's. If they stole from anyone, it's themselves.
Click to expand...

This one is ridiculous...why does it keep popping up? Even the Konfabulator team recognized Desktop Accessories.
 
BakedBeans said:
Probably the most factually incorrect post I've witnessed on this board in the time I've been a user.
Click to expand...
And it's always by a macrumors newbie, too. But we'll take it easy on Joe. ;)
 
patrick0brien said:
Alt-Tab. 'nuff said.
Click to expand...
Don't forget though, that Apple dramatically improved the quality of alt-tab both graphically and for the end user.

I can't tell you how frustrating it is on my Windows machine at work to be able to alt-tab forward through my applications, but then not be able to alt-~ my way back once I blow past the one I'm looking for -- which is easy to do because of the poor graphical representation of the application icon.

Also since I'm on the topic, I sure wish Windows would put an alt-~ command that would let you scroll through the open windows in an application. Or implement some bastardized version of Expose...
 
mactastic said:
Don't forget though, that Apple dramatically improved the quality of alt-tab both graphically and for the end user.
Click to expand...

-mactastic

Not forgotten, rest assured :D

And I agree, wish there were a way to pop through an apps open files and windows. In fact, I'm wishing that right now.
 
I focused this thread to be more of a interesting topic that we usually don't discuss or think about. Didn't mean to provide false information, it was what I observed and shared. As for being the most factually incorrect post, I ask what was so factually incorrect. Can you provide some more input than that BakedBeans? I stay true to my first statement.
 
macbookpro10 said:
After watching the keynote and looking extensively into Leopard, I first must applaud Apple. Tell me what you think about this, but I know how Apple bashes Windows for coping them and taking old technology. But from the keynote it appeared like Apple took a lot of things from Windows. Of course they made it better, but the concepts were really first adopted by Windows.

1) Time Machine - Extended version of Window's System Restore since XP. I don't know why everyone bashes it, every time I used System Restore it always worked for me.
2) Update iChat - Ok this has definitely been apart of Windows Netmeeting. I always used to conference and share Desktop to work on my families computers around the world.
3) Parental Control - Probably a given now adays, but Windows looks like it definitely has more innvoativation behind this one. As I can tell from now.
4) Spaces - Almost every version of Linux/Unix has the four different desktops switching.
5) Widgets - OK i know old topic, but when the VP said "Gadgets aren't the same thing as widgets", to make a joke that Vista copied OSX, I was just thinking how they took the idea from Konfabulator.
/QUOTE]
1) I've never used the XP thing your talking about but its an upgrade type thing for backing up stuff because its currnetly possible
2) The iChat thing i had never heard of before, but that does not mean MS does not have it now, but this method seems to be more built into OS X(iChat is a major app for OSX)
3) Most OS have that
4) True Linux does have it, and there are freeware apps for the Mac that do this but now its built into OS X.
5) Apple had widget like things in System 6 or 7(ie before konfabulator), but the dropped it, and recently brought it back.
Click to expand...
 
macbookpro10 said:
Can you provide some more input than that BakedBeans? I stay true to my first statement.
Click to expand...

-macbookpro10

Have you read the thread?

Please be aware you've got the attention of some rather level-thinkers here and not the fanatical followers. Please add that to your thoughts as you read our responses.
 
i agree with your idea that Apple is not "guilt-free" from borrowing ideas. But this isn't just an Apple Vs. Microsoft Vs. Windows kinda thing. Most products are variants of another released earlier, (not just computers, in general). The thing is that Microsoft's blatant copying of Apple doesn't (generally) add more usability and better efficiency upon what it was drawn from, it merely mimics.


Let's take The Time Machine vs. System Restore argument you brought up. It is clear that System Restore's usability is pretty good and that both accomplish a similar end result: recovery of lost/changed system to what it was at an earlier date. Time Machine however is adding to System Restore's functionality by visualizing it and making it realtime for all files and folders. Apple didn't just take System Restore and throw that into Leopard, they improved upon it.


In the comparisons of Microsoft's numerous copies of Apple tech, they generally do not improve upon what they copy like Apple does in their products if they borrow an idea (again, generally).
 
mactastic said:
I can't tell you how frustrating it is on my Windows machine at work to be able to alt-tab forward through my applications, but then not be able to alt-~ my way back once I blow past the one I'm looking for -- which is easy to do because of the poor graphical representation of the application icon.
Click to expand...

this won't fix the ugly graphical representations, but... if you are alt-tabbing and go too far, hold shift and hit tab again, you'll go backwards in the list. ;)
 
jelloshotsrule said:
this won't fix the ugly graphical representations, but... if you are alt-tabbing and go too far, hold shift and hit tab again, you'll go backwards in the list. ;)
Click to expand...


I might like to add that there is a windows power toy you can download from M$ that improves the graphical representaiont of alt tab by quite a bit.

Also there is another windows power toy (multiple desktops) that looks remarkebly exactly like spaces does on leapod. only differice is it been out since at least 2002.

Also Time mec. is a copy of something that was in the beta 2 verson of vista (nice back up untilyty built int ot vista that is quite a bit like leapods only it was announced a while before leapod and I have a feeling mac users will be screaming copy when they see it and not relieze it been around for longer).

Also dont forgot a while ago apple copied fast user switching from M$ (And M$ verson was a first step on there longer running plan of having 2 user log in and using the computer at the same time one by remote desktop)
 
The one thing I wish Apple would copy from Windows (or reintroduce if it was in a previous version of the Mac OS) is the "Set as wallpaper" command in the contextual menu in IE.
 
jelloshotsrule said:
this won't fix the ugly graphical representations, but... if you are alt-tabbing and go too far, hold shift and hit tab again, you'll go backwards in the list. ;)
Click to expand...
Ugh... thanks, but that's a terrible implementation though. 3 keys? Puhleeze!
 
I don't know why everyone is saying konfobulator was the first one with widgets. They wern't. Microsoft was BEFORE them. It was in a longhorn beta long before it came out. While the konfobulator people were the ones that came up with the concept first, the people to actually put it into production first were MICROSOFT. I love apple and everything but MICROSOFT DID NOT COPY APPLE ON WIDGETS.
 
michaeldmartin said:
I don't know why everyone is saying konfobulator was the first one with widgets. They wern't. Microsoft was BEFORE them. It was in a longhorn beta long before it came out. While the konfobulator people were the ones that came up with the concept first, the people to actually put it into production first were MICROSOFT. I love apple and everything but MICROSOFT DID NOT COPY APPLE ON WIDGETS.
Click to expand...

-michaeldmartin

No offense, but you really need to read the thread. Short answer: it appears that Microsoft did copy.

mkrishnan said:
After G said:
Apple had Desktop Accessories back during the 1980's. If they stole from anyone, it's themselves.
Click to expand...


This one is ridiculous...why does it keep popping up? Even the Konfabulator team recognized Desktop Accessories.
Click to expand...
 
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