WayTools' TextBlade Keyboard to Start Shipping to Test Group Users Next Week

[iMarc845]

It ultimately came down to thinking "ready to ship" only meant to everyone when the context was about testers and that others would have to wait longer.

I think that the overused "... agree to disagree ..." fits here. I understand both sides and I doubt any of the parties in this particular discussion will be swayed.

I happen to believe Juli has been quite clear but I can see where others may not think so. I suggest we walk away from this specific part of the conversation.

As to the points about why MR is publishing another article about WayTools and the TextBlade: several people have asked Juli to do so. I know that for a fact because I'm one of them. And I reiterate my thanks to her for her objectivity in mentioning both the positives and the negatives of the situation with WayTools.

 

[dabigkahuna]

I think that the overused "... agree to disagree ..." fits here. I understand both sides and I doubt any of the parties in this particular discussion will be swayed.

Okay

While I don't agree with him, he has at least tried to make real arguments and made an effort to back up his position. I can respect that.

 

[Night Spring]

Okay

While I don't agree with him, he has at least tried to make real arguments and made an effort to back up his position. I can respect that.

Her.

And thanks for acknowledging that I was trying to have a rational discussion.

I do hope WayTool gets their act together, because this does sound like an innovative product, and I would be interested in getting one myself if early user reviews are positive.

 

[dabigkahuna]

Her.

And thanks for acknowledging that I was trying to have a rational discussion.

I do hope WayTool gets their act together, because this does sound like an innovative product, and I would be interested in getting one myself if early user reviews are positive.

Dang, should have guessed by the name - though that wasn't a guarantee. Okay, when unknown, I tend to just assume "he", but usually I (probably using poor English) try to avoid issues by saying "they" even though it is one person. English always was my worst subject!

I've often expressed my concerns to Waytools, not only about the delays (which, you know, maybe just couldn't be helped) but especially about the lack of communication or not changing shipping estimates until it was clearly impossible to reach the last estimate.

After being one of the people who Mark Knighton called, I have formed a theory though. I believe, barring just dishonesty, that there is usually an explanation for things even if they seem really weird. Well, talking to Knighton, he almost seemed to be in a "golly, gee-whiz this is so cool" mode. I mean sincerely so, not an act. Everyone who reported on their conversations said the same kinds of things. Anything but sounding like a hardcore businessman - and really just excited about what they created.

So, my theory is that, in some ways, he may be similar to Steve Wozniak - no, not the great creative mind. Don't know about that. Just that he was more into how neat it was to create something cool while it was Steve Jobs who was more into the business stuff and made the business work.

When there was yet another delay, we'd get a post on the forum from Waytools (might have been Knighton but I don't know if that was ever confirmed) saying a bit (not enough) about the delay, projecting shipping for the next month, and then, irritating the heck out of people when it kept happening, making comments about how cool it was and how much he thought we'd like it, etc.

Flat out angered a lot of people. Seemed kind of insensitive, frankly. I just couldn't figure out how he never seemed to get the message that it was angering people since he kept doing it. But maybe the answer is simply that he is being kinda geeky about this, hopefully great, creation and is truly giving his view, blind to the reaction it causes.

 

[diogenis]

Thank you for this update, Juli. Many of us appreciate your coverage on Textblade and Waytools over the year.

While the Textblade itself seems like a wonderful technology that's unique (especially after reading your reading your current post), I feel morally obligated to warn potential buyers about the company that is Waytools.

I've never dealt with a company that's more backwards, opaque and downright hostile to customers than Waytools. They promised transparency and accurate status of your order on their website, but they never provide a straight answer to anything and the shipping status has become a joke within the forum. They always say they'll ship by end of such and such month, even after that date passed. They always say they worked out such and such bugs, never telling you what's wrong or what they're aiming to fix, leaving everyone in the dark and with false hope that it's going to ship soon.

They've been doing this every month almost like clockwork for the last year.

But it gets better (or should I say worse). A year ago, they went on a rampage where they accused everyone questioning their service as a shill or a spy for a competitor, and later even cancelling the orders of people posting complaints or otherwise negative things about them (mostly their horrid customer service), to a point where people had to put "Waytools: do not cancel my order" in their posts' signature, for fear of triggering another paranoid response from them.

But this TREG escapade is the worst by far. It's completely mired in secrecy and all this unnecessary cloak-and-dagger BS that Waytools seems to get off on. No one knows exactly how many were picked as testers, from where, by what criteria, for what purpose, nor how long it will all take. From what I can gather, it took Waytools about a week to choose a person, one week to send them a non-disclosure agreement, one week to arrange some sort of shipment schedule which may not happen for a while because they're still testing the testing units before sending out.

So, I'm shocked that you received one, because as far as I know, no one who signed up for TREG has received one yet, nor will they in the near future... nevermind the rest of the early adopters like me who ordered more than a year ago.

But here's the final kicker. They have implemented a remote kill switch and key logger into the testing units. Waytools has admitted to that and insists they're necessary for testing purposes, and that it will be removed after testing. So, unless they have a completely different build for the general release units, those two malwares will be present in every Textblade unit, whether dormant or not. Now, I may be overblowing the potential harm that can come out of this, but in the age of Edward Snowden and NSA's fallout, this is at best a boneheaded move on the part of Waytools, whether they're truly needed for testing or not.

With all that said, I still do like the idea of Textblade and the technology, but the Waytools company is the worst I've ever dealt with in all my years of being a tech gadget freak. At some point, it's not worth the nightmare of dealing with such a sanctimonious, pompous and horrendous company. If and when you do receive one, know that you're getting an orphan, because I guarantee you won't be getting any support.

These are EXACTLY my feelings about that company. I have never ever met with such an hostile entity of a company that was supposed to bring us these keyboards. Me too, I had preordered those and was waiting for ages to get the real product. And when I asked them why the delays and broken promises, I got back an answer in the following manner "this is how we do it. If you don't like cancel your order"! So, I simply cancelled my order and will never even bother to buy their product again, unless I find this stocked as I browse, and have the urge to buy something. Waytools, believe they have invented a consumer fusion generator, well they don't they have simply made a keyboard, and they way they treat their customers they Will eventually lose them all!
I have cancelled my order since I believe more than a year, I can't believe they haven;t yet shipped the finished product!
Don't expect anything to be shipped until at least another 6 months. Probably by this September, after Summer holidays are over

 

[Rian Gray]

I personally find it inappropriate for MacRumors to run an article on a consumer product that hasn't even released yet. We can't get our hands on it. Simple as that. Pre-order excuse doesn't even hold a chance when WayTools has a bad track record in making estimates. Unless the article will strictly provide an info regarding the shipping-delays that occurred over a year, all it ever does is spreading more words for more pre-orders.

Besides, I can't believe WayTools has a "rant" section in its forum, and yet WayTools actually respond to some of the "ranting." I thought the whole purpose of keeping some of the nasty threads out of the real forum is to spare time and resource for real consumers.

 

[shareef777]

Her.

And thanks for acknowledging that I was trying to have a rational discussion.

I do hope WayTool gets their act together, because this does sound like an innovative product, and I would be interested in getting one myself if early user reviews are positive.

This is what I ("this is a personal shopping opinion, and not specific to way tools") have a problem with. When manufacturers advertise and have blogs push articles out over a product that isn't remotely ready. Again, me personally, it sways me against ever trusting the company, and therefore not buying their products. An example is the Myo and Thalmic labs. I pre-ordered and waited a year and half before giving up and cancelling my order.

 

[Kabeyun]

Let's get something straight here. I am in no way "smitten" with WayTools. I have zero relationship with them and zero stake in whether the TextBlade succeeds. What *is* true is that just like all of you, I think that the TextBlade is a neat product that does something unique. I thought the TextBlade was an interesting product when I first saw it, and I was impressed with the hands-on time that I spent with it back in March. That's the sole reason that I wrote about it.

I have continued to write about it because I have been asked to do so from pre-order customers like you. Communication about the TextBlade hasn't been great, as you well know, so I have tried my best to share information with customers. Not because WayTools asked me to, but so people who ordered could have some background on what's going on.

Some people need to get a grip. So you are, understandably, frustrated. Doesn't justify some of the things you are saying, including attacking the writer of the article.

Calling out is the same as attacking? Really?

Look, here it is. A child could see that the real story here is that of WayTool's deception, obfuscation, and stringing customers along. Glance at the original story's thread and that becomes obvious. To blithely post a (second) excessively lengthy marketing-style write-up which almost completely ignores the fact that this product is inextricably linked to misleading customers is like writing a story about the technical marvel of the Deepwater Horizon as it's spewing crude into the Gulf.

The kindest thing to say is that it's terrible journalism. And that's not a personal attack. It's just the truth.

 

[Night Spring]

Dang, should have guessed by the name - though that wasn't a guarantee. Okay, when unknown, I tend to just assume "he", but usually I (probably using poor English) try to avoid issues by saying "they" even though it is one person. English always was my worst subject!

Nope, forum name isn't a guarantee -- I remember one poster had a name that meant someone's girl in Japanese, but turned out it was a guy using a name of an anime character as his handle. I sometimes wish forums had a feature where we could display our gender if we wished. On the one hand gender is irrelevant to a discussion like this one, but then the wrong pronoun does bug me.

After being one of the people who Mark Knighton called, I have formed a theory though. I believe, barring just dishonesty, that there is usually an explanation for things even if they seem really weird. Well, talking to Knighton, he almost seemed to be in a "golly, gee-whiz this is so cool" mode. I mean sincerely so, not an act. Everyone who reported on their conversations said the same kinds of things. Anything but sounding like a hardcore businessman - and really just excited about what they created.

This is interesting info, thanks for sharing. It does seem like WayTool doesn't have anyone with proper business sense. They may not be intending anything nefarious, and they do seem genuinely enthusiastic about their product, but in my view, that doesn't excuse their stringing people along for more than a year without shipping their product. I have a hard time understanding why everyone hasn't cancelled their orders by now, or why you are still willing to help them by being a tester for their product.

 

[iMarc845]

I have a hard time understanding why everyone hasn't cancelled their orders by now,

Speaking purely for myself, I haven't canceled my orders (I actually have two) because I do believe the TextBlade has the potential to really be the next step forward, especially for me.

I am not a touch-typist on a "regular" flat keyboard. The layout (QWERTY, Colemak, Etc.) doesn't matter to me, I just cannot get the proper feel for it. The only time I could input text without looking at the keys was when I previously used a special ergonomic keyboard called the DataHand. [picture here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand#/media/File:DataHand_overhead_view.jpg ]
Because of its special layout, I developed the "muscle memory" needed to touch-type on that device.

I HOPE that the TextBlade will let me do something similar. From everything I've read and seen, it may be the best device for my needs. And it's portable so I can carry it with me and use it all the time. That is my reason for sticking with it. (And, yes, the total Geek Factor of it, too! )

 

[wetcanvas]

I am uncertain why they chose to use a split button function key for things like the rt keys and the yu keys. if they had just separated these keys like the others it would feel more natural in the spacing. It also wouldnt increase the size of the keyboard in any significant way since these keys are close to double wide anyway. It would then make more sense for just having the dual button keys on the left and right hand side. Then if you needed to press 1 or shift you automatically know outside keys are closer to the edge spacewise then other keys. Having the middle letter keys double wide and than every other letter is evenly spaced is counter productive and totally screws up the layout spacing..

 

[redshifted]

I read about the TREG program on the WayTools Forum. I check in there once in a while to see if anything has changed. WayTools doesn't bother sending status updates to customers with orders. The only update communication from WT is if I check my order status from links in my order confirmation email. The only other option is digging through the dysfunctional WT forums.

I didn't apply for TREG because I just want a working version with stable hardware and software. I don't want to be a beta tester. I just don't have time for that. At first, it seemed like just another delay to actually shipping product. Now, it seems to be a real step towards shipping product in the next couple of months - I hope.

At this point (a year since ordering in March last year), I still won't believe anything about the TextBlade until the box arrives from WayTools with a functioning TextBlade inside. I've never seen a crazier product "launch" than this.

 

[KaliYoni]

While I don't think the TextBlade is an out-and-out swindle by any means, this news story does speak to the mindset of many of those who remain bullish...

"THERE’S an adage you hear most any time you mention con artists: You can’t cheat an honest man. It’s a comforting defense against vulnerability, but is it actually true?
No, as it turns out; honesty has precious little to do with it. Equally blameless is greed, at least in the traditional sense. What matters instead is greed of a different sort: a deep need to believe in a version of the world where everything really is for the best — at least when it comes to us."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/opinion/sunday/born-to-be-conned.html

And this is a relevant cautionary tale of the risks faced by pre-orderers of products still in the prototype stages of development:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/magazine/zpm-espresso-and-the-rage-of-the-jilted-crowdfunder.html

 

[dabigkahuna]

Look, here it is. A child could see that the real story here is that of WayTool's deception, obfuscation, and stringing customers along.

That is, actually, all assumption. We know they have missed a bunch of deadlines. We know they are really bad at communication. But that does mean they are trying to deceive, etc. What happens if they ship to customers in a couple of weeks? Sure, people could still be upset that it took so long, but it would also pretty much kill the assumptions you just made.

 

[Night Spring]

That is, actually, all assumption. We know they have missed a bunch of deadlines. We know they are really bad at communication. But that does mean they are trying to deceive, etc. What happens if they ship to customers in a couple of weeks? Sure, people could still be upset that it took so long, but it would also pretty much kill the assumptions you just made.

They said they'll ship in May 2015. Then they said they'll ship in summer. Then they said next month, and next month, and next month...

Some people call that deception, even if they do end up finally shipping the product.

 

[dabigkahuna]

Nope, forum name isn't a guarantee

Hah! That reminds me of something actually used to attack me in the WT forum. For daring to object to SOME of the criticisms, a number of them decided to claim I was Knighton! It served as a convenient way for them NOT to even consider any arguments agains their claims. But one was really funny. She took my name, said it mean the "big chief" or something, thus it was a clever way for Knighton to post there using a different name.

Of course, it wasn't true, but that tends to not matter to some people. But what makes it funny is where my name actually came from. It was the name of my favorite pizza place on the island of Oahu! I think they go by "Big Kahuna's" now, but originally it was the same as I spell it.

I have a hard time understanding why everyone hasn't cancelled their orders by now, or why you are still willing to help them by being a tester for their product.

Well, it's easy for me but I don't know if I can get those who disagree to understand my reasoning, but here goes:

1. I think it is a brilliant idea. Not just because it is so small but because I can see a possibility that it could actually work better than regular keyboards (won't know until I have lots of time to use it). That's why I decided to take the risk and order in March.

2. And I did consider it a risk. It still wasn't shipping, so clearly it was still being cleaned up. It is always possible that it could be impossible to get to work well enough, or could close down for any number of reasons. The deciding factor for me to go ahead was that WT is much the same people as an existing company (NextEngine). That gave be just enough to feel the risk was small - but still a risk.

3. I also decided from the start that I was willing to take a complete loss if things turned out badly - bankruptcy where customers get nothing back. Doesn't mean I would never cancel, but it did mean I was going to wait a very long time.

4. Since I really want to try it as soon as possible, testing was a natural thing to apply for. Based on the agreement, there isn't really anything we MUST do (there are things we can't do, such as talk about unannounced products). But I also enjoy testing some things. Besides stuff I've created myself, I was a tester for a pretty complete rewrite of the original AppleWorks (for the Apple II line) years ago. It was a bit of fun, actually, and I made some useful contributions - including one important bug that no one else had noticed. It's like doing logic puzzles, but for a useful purpose.
[doublepost=1456099061][/doublepost]

They said they'll ship in May 2015. Then they said they'll ship in summer. Then they said next month, and next month, and next month...

Some people call that deception, even if they do end up finally shipping the product.

Yep, some people do call it deception - and fail to consider any other factors. We do know they are really bad at some things but I see the most likely answer this way:

They thought they were almost ready to release each time. That is, either they didn't see any problems with the early testing of whatever the latest version was OR they thought the problems they did see would be easy to fix.

And over and over again they were wrong. You know, bad things happen sometimes. Criticism that they shouldn't give an time unless they are sure is fine - though companies do it all the time, not just WT. I've seen people say they shouldn't give each delay as just moving to the next month. Typically they say it should be 3 months "to allow enough time to fix things". The feel this would be good, yet it actually changes nothing. Consider, they miss February 2015 but instead of changing it to March and go through that monthly process, they say, "Our next estimate is May 2015". Okay, then what would have happened in May? They would have said, "Our next estimate is August 2015". Etc. Yeah, they make fewer changes, but now each delay is much longer. No net benefit either way. So even a commonly given "proper approach" given by many critics really doesn't help at all.

People forget that this isn't just another keyboard, thus problems should be simple to solve - old technology, right? No, this this is totally different in how it works and I don't think anyone could really be sure how long it may take. My personal theory was that the key magnet system (a major new approach to keyboards) had unexpected issues that they were trying to solve via firmware. Like possible inconsistencies in magnet strength, or changing strength over time, etc. Maybe not and I know there were other things they announced about it. Could be a series of different things too.
[doublepost=1456099191][/doublepost]

While I don't think the TextBlade is an out-and-out swindle by any means, this news story does speak to the mindset of many of those who remain bullish...

You might consider the possibility that we have considered all the negatives presented, weighed them, etc, and still decided to stick with the product longer. TREG is a very important step.

 

[Night Spring]

Well, it's easy for me but I don't know if I can get those who disagree to understand my reasoning, but here goes:

That was perfectly clear, thanks. I think the key is you went in with realistic expectations and are willing to lose your money if it comes to that. And I can understand that.

When I first heard about TextBlade, I also thought that it could possibly replace the traditional keyboard if it worked as advertised. But I wasn't prepared to lose money, so I decided to hold off on ordering until it was actually shipping.

Interesting thing, though, is that I got the iPad Pro in late December, and the more I use it the more I find I do fine with just the on screen keyboard on this thing. I have an Apple Bluetooth keyboard I thought I'd use with the iPad Pro, but the keyboard has been sitting on my desk unused for the past month or so. So now I'm no longer sure I'd use the TextBlade even if it did ship tomorrow and I could walk into BestBuy to buy one. With the 9.7" iPad, typing on the on screen keyboard was doable, but a portable hardware solution seemed attractive. With the iPad Pro, the on screen keyboard feels almost as comfortable as a physical keyboard. I know not everyone will feel this way, but it's a kind of weird feeling I just thought I'd share -- it just feels so weird to not want a physical keyboard, yet that's where I'm at.
[doublepost=1456100303][/doublepost]

And over and over again they were wrong. You know, bad things happen sometimes. Criticism that they shouldn't give an time unless they are sure is fine - though companies do it all the time, not just WT. I've seen people say they shouldn't give each delay as just moving to the next month. Typically they say it should be 3 months "to allow enough time to fix things". The feel this would be good, yet it actually changes nothing. Consider, they miss February 2015 but instead of changing it to March and go through that monthly process, they say, "Our next estimate is May 2015". Okay, then what would have happened in May? They would have said, "Our next estimate is August 2015". Etc. Yeah, they make fewer changes, but now each delay is much longer. No net benefit either way. So even a commonly given "proper approach" given by many critics really doesn't help at all.

I can't say I know what they should have done. Personally I'm kind of on the fence about whether I'd call this particular situation deception or not. I just understand the pov of those who do call it deception.

I do think at least some of their "next month" ship date changes were unrealistic. I'd see their list of things they had to do before the product would be ready to ship, and think no way they could get it all done in a month.

 

[dabigkahuna]

With the iPad Pro, the on screen keyboard feels almost as comfortable as a physical keyboard.

Wow, that's interesting. I can't imagine it being as comfortable at all - at least not for reasonably fast typing. But then, I've never been proficient a the iOS keyboards at all. I've read that the best approach is to just type and let the system do the rest for the most part, but that kinda goes against my natural inclinations so I've never forced myself to practice thumb typing that way.

As for how people went into it, yeah, there are some real problems there. I didn't get in until March and, to me, it seemed pretty clear that all shipping dates were estimates. I know enough about software and hardware to also realize any projections are somewhat risky. But WT, back in January, I think, did mess up and simply list shipping in February - rather than an estimate. That certainly gave those early orderers reason to complain. But I've seen others make the same complaint - saying it was "promised" a certain month even though it was listed as an estimate.

Of course, after this many delays, calling it an "estimate" isn't going to do much to tamp down the criticisms!

Well, big hurdle now is just getting those test units out. Then, if you are interested, there should be plenty of reports on them at the WT forums. I'm actually quite amazed that we can talk about almost anything - even discussions with WT. That is not the kind of thing I'd expect if the company is being unethically deceptive. Weak in communication, absolutely!

It's funny, in a way, but also possibly very consistent. They sometimes have said they don't communicate more because it takes time away from the product. Most of us don't understand that because some things can be said in just a minute or so - just leaving out major detail. Like with the shield issue. They could have quickly said, "We had some problems with the shield allowing stray voltage. We think we have it fixed and are testing now". Instead, they went into great detail, pictures and everything. That's fine, but if the claim is you are short on time, just give the short version! Anyway, even though I don't understand their argument about posting more, the fact that testers can pretty much post all they want would support them - that they don't mind the info getting out, but they don't want to take time to do it enough.

 

[Night Spring]

Wow, that's interesting. I can't imagine it being as comfortable at all - at least not for reasonably fast typing. But then, I've never been proficient a the iOS keyboards at all. I've read that the best approach is to just type and let the system do the rest for the most part, but that kinda goes against my natural inclinations so I've never forced myself to practice thumb typing that way.

Well, it's an iPad, so no thumb typing. I don't quite use all my fingers the same way I do on a physical keyboard, but I use most of my fingers. The thing is, on the regular size iPad, the keys are a bit smaller than on a physical keyboard, but with the Pro, in landscape, the keys are as big as on a physical keyboard, so if you don't mind the lack of a key "click," you can type the same as on a real keyboard. I also have gotten used to staring at the suggestion boxes as I type. Like right now, I just had to type "sugg," and "suggestion" popped up, so I hit it -- saved me, what, 5 strokes?

They sometimes have said they don't communicate more because it takes time away from the product. Most of us don't understand that because some things can be said in just a minute or so - just leaving out major detail. Like with the shield issue. They could have quickly said, "We had some problems with the shield allowing stray voltage. We think we have it fixed and are testing now". Instead, they went into great detail, pictures and everything. That

Sounds like a typical amateur perfectionist mistake. They can't narrow down what is the essential thing they need to communicate, so they do a big info dump, which of course takes a long time to write out and prepare.

This reminds me of the thing Steve Jobs is supposed to have said that "real artists ship." I think he meant that you have to stop trying to make everything perfect and just know when something is good enough and ship that. Of course, you don't want to ship something with major faults, but on the other hand, if you keep testing, there'll always be some minor faults and "coner cases" to fix. Real artists know where the line is where the product is good enough to ship. Amateurs can't tell, and keep tinkering forever.

 

[Kabeyun]

That is, actually, all assumption. We know they have missed a bunch of deadlines. We know they are really bad at communication. But that does mean they are trying to deceive, etc. What happens if they ship to customers in a couple of weeks? Sure, people could still be upset that it took so long, but it would also pretty much kill the assumptions you just made.

No, those are conclusions based on track record, not assumptions. And stringing us along is simple fact, defined as serially pushing back a stated shipping date over the course of a year.

What you're quibbling about is whether or not WayTools knowingly misrepresented the readiness of their product over and over again. You believe they didn't. I believe they did, and that articles like Clover's help them do it, intentionally or not.

If they ship tomorrow morning it won't undo anything, their conduct or any veracity of my conclusions about it.

 

[dabigkahuna]

I never got used to got used to reading the suggestions - I do catch them from time to time, but really, my eyes are not normally seeing that. I guess if I was using it like a regular keyboard (which I do by feel), it may be different. Have to try it out at a store sometime. But I use Dvorak keyboards. Does the iPad allow for that for an onscreen keyboard?

I'd love to have a tablet that could substitute full time for a computer, but I don't think it will suit me for a long time. For one thing, when using the computer, I have two pretty big screens! So any tablet would need the power and connectivity (maybe via a dock) to plug into a system like that. And allow use of a mouse since in that situation, I'd probably prefer to use a mouse and keyboard.

A lot of people have referred to that Jobs quote. Problem is, we aren't there to see what the problems are and decide if they may hurt the long term success of the technology. Consider, for example, the first white iPhone! It was promised and delay for a very long time. People had to wonder what could be so hard about that! When I look at the tech behind this keyboard, it is just so complicated, I'm really not surprised it has been hard to get right. Maybe it was "good enough" before. But maybe not.

Hopefully soon we'll start getting reports back from various testers.
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No, those are conclusions based on track record, not assumptions. And stringing us along is simple fact, defined as serially pushing back a stated shipping date over the course of a year.

So you made a conclusion. That doesn't mean it is not ALSO an assumption. They are not mutually exclusive.

Why assume they knowingly misrepresented it's readiness? Absent actual inside knowledge, is it not reasonable to consider that such new and complicated tech just kept giving them problems that took longer to solve than expected?

Could they have knowingly misrepresented? Sure. It's possible. But why assume so? Besides being mad about the delays, that is.

 

[palmfox]

Let's get something straight here. I am in no way "smitten" with WayTools. I have zero relationship with them and zero stake in whether the TextBlade succeeds. What *is* true is that just like all of you, I think that the TextBlade is a neat product that does something unique. I thought the TextBlade was an interesting product when I first saw it, and I was impressed with the hands-on time that I spent with it back in March. That's the sole reason that I wrote about it.

I have continued to write about it because I have been asked to do so from pre-order customers like you. Communication about the TextBlade hasn't been great, as you well know, so I have tried my best to share information with customers. Not because WayTools asked me to, but so people who ordered could have some background on what's going on.

Julie, I understand that you were asked to write about this, but you cannot say that your article is a balanced article. You have had access to Mr. Knighton. Despite repeated requests, I have been unable to even find out a SINGLE name of anyone that has emailed me. You have access, so why do you not ask Mr. Knighton why he arbitrarily and without a request CANCELLED orders of some of the FIRST customers who ordered simply because they asked when the product was going to ship. Asked by private email NOT on the forums. Others asked on the forums and were cancelled.Asked after 4 months of waiting! Ask Mr. Knighton to address THAT! You indicated that you were on the forums, and this has been a major topic. Why would it not be addressed along side of their continued delay in shipping.

Waytools falsely advertised that their product was "pre-production".. they did not advertise it was a Kickstarter project. At least you touched on their absolute failure to communicate with customers.

A journalist should be balanced, and I truly believe that all of your articles regarding Waytools, have been written to put Waytools in the best light, and gloss over the crap that they have dished out to their customers. I'm not saying that you haven't addressed some of the issues, but there were many others that I think a balanced article would have also brought up.

 

[dabigkahuna]

why do you not ask Mr. Knighton why he arbitrarily and without a request CANCELLED orders of some of the FIRST customers who ordered simply because they asked when the product was going to ship.

Well, one can always find questions to ask - never ends. And can declare their question to be more important than anything else. But the fact is, a lot in her article was, in fact, negative.

But if we are to make this particular issue the defining one, let's be more complete. None of us can know what you did privately, but I did see some that were public so we'll go with those.

I don't think they should have canceled anyone so, on the basic principle, I agree with you.

I got involved in their forum months after it opened so I first saw these things referred to as being in the past and they read much like yours - that they expressed some complaints and were canceled.

So I started reading back to old posts to get the full picture and, while I still don't agree with the cancellations, there was definitely more to it than what I had been told.

Essentially the ones I saw were quite upset and strongly spoken (or even nasty) so Waytools "justification" was that if they were that upset, it was best to do a refund. Again, I don't agree. But my first point is, we aren't talking about people just asking things. Not the ones I saw that were public.

But that's a minor point since I still don't think they should have cancelled. The bigger thing is what everyone has left out. That after cancelling them, WT still let them reorder AND RETAIN THEIR PLACE IN LINE.

Sure, that isn't satisfactory to many so no problem with the complaint. But if the issue here is to give a complete story, then you should too. Balanced.

 

[Night Spring]

I never got used to got used to reading the suggestions - I do catch them from time to time, but really, my eyes are not normally seeing that. I guess if I was using it like a regular keyboard (which I do by feel), it may be different. Have to try it out at a store sometime. But I use Dvorak keyboards. Does the iPad allow for that for an onscreen keyboard?

I'd love to have a tablet that could substitute full time for a computer, but I don't think it will suit me for a long time. For one thing, when using the computer, I have two pretty big screens! So any tablet would need the power and connectivity (maybe via a dock) to plug into a system like that. And allow use of a mouse since in that situation, I'd probably prefer to use a mouse and keyboard.

I got used to using the suggestion box because I write Japanese, and in order to input Japanese, you HAVE to use the suggestion box. Japanese uses about 5000 characters, so the only way to input that is to type in the pronunciation and then select from the characters that match the pronunciation. Yeah, very complicated writing system!

iOS itself doesn't have a Dvorak keyboard, but it's possible to install third party keyboards (I think that was added in iOS 7 or 8, I forget which.) I've never looked to see if there are any Dvorak keyboard available, but theoretically, it's possible.

I wouldn't try to replace a desktop setup with an iPad -- I don't know if it can drive two displays! iPads are best if you want to work away from the desk. The reason I like the iPad Pro so much is I find I get more work done sitting on my bed or the recliner with my feet up. If you are the type who like working while sitting at a desk, stick to a desktop.

And I'd love to hear your experiences with TextBlade when you get the testing unit. I suppose I could check out the WayTool forum, but I'm not sure I want to get involved in another forum, so if you could find the time to post here, I'd appreciate that.

 

[Kabeyun]

So you made a conclusion. That doesn't mean it is not ALSO an assumption. They are not mutually exclusive.

Why assume they knowingly misrepresented it's readiness? Absent actual inside knowledge, is it not reasonable to consider that such new and complicated tech just kept giving them problems that took longer to solve than expected?

Could they have knowingly misrepresented? Sure. It's possible. But why assume so? Besides being mad about the delays, that is.

You're so set on making your point you ignored the second sentence you quoted. They did string us along. That's not opinion. Full stop.

Why do I and others conclude they were deliberately deceptive?

• Track record of immaturity (see palmfox's post - "He posted a mean comment so I'm cancelling his order." What?! Can you imagine Toyota doing that? You don't see MacRumors kicking us off the forums because they don't like our disagreement with a staff member. (Yet!))
• The absurd length of the delay. Startups do experience release delays. Never in my experience like these. Tesla was no worse, and they built a CAR.
• Near-total lack of communication to the customer body. Companies build trust with openness. Why on Earth would anyone trust these people?
• The excuse for near-total lack of communication to the customer body it completely implausible. (They said that sending out a few emails would take them away from product development. Please tell us you're not such a Pollyanna as to believe that one.)
• Suspicious business practice. They charged us up front. That always bothered me. This means that, without fully disclosing it, they're funding development with prepaid consumer dollars. I don't know about you, but when I order an unavailable item anywhere else, I don't get charged until the item ships. Otherwise it's either Kickstarter without disclosing its nature, or it's a Ponzi scheme.

You won't be satisfied until someone produces an insider email from WayTools saying, "Hey, let's deceive them." Absent that, people make reasonable conclusions based on an accumulation of evidence. The more absurd the circumstances the more plausible alternative explanations become. No, we don't have ironclad proof of deliberate deception, but you should stop using the absence of it as your own proof they weren't and accept that it's a reasonable thing to believe.

And getting back to my original point which precipitated this, Clover's article took WayTools to task on exactly none of this. That's indisputable. For shame.