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The fact that apple bought a microprocessor company so they could control the design of the A4 for the iPad, makes one wonder if Apple might consider purchasing AMD, to have complete control over their systems. Put Apple behind AMD/ATI, with their current A4 and design team, and maybe they can take AMD's to the next step.

I really do not know enough about these things to make any sort of assessment of whether or not such a thing is even feasible or possible, but I'm guessing Apple would love full control over the insides of all their systems.

It would make sense in theory except for a few problems:

1 - AMD is damaged goods, their market value has dropped substantially in the past 4-5 years.

2 - Apple uses Intel processors in part so that Mac users can also install Windows on their machines. If they go into making their own chips again, they're going to lose Windows support. If they buy AMD, chances are they won't keep making PC hardware, meaning that Windows support will drop fairly quickly.

It works for the iPad because of the closed ecosystem, but I don't think even Apple is crazy enough to try and close off the Mac ecosystem.
 
I really do not know enough about these things to make any sort of assessment of whether or not such a thing is even feasible or possible, but I'm guessing Apple would love full control over the insides of all their systems.

yes, it's very possible and I think it would be beneficial for both AMD and Apple to become partners.. All the naysayers just don't understand how business and technology works together. They also forget the good days of Power PC.
 
Guys!

Enough.

Here is the most logical and eloquent reason why Arrandale didn't make the MBP 13.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/why-the-13-macbook-pro-didnt-get-a-core-i5-upgrade.ars

wow and here i thought Ars was an independent Tech site, that article is so totally written to suck up on Apple, or perhaps to make MBP13 owners feel good about their €1149 purchase it is hardly funny anymore.

of course all points mentioned are valid (space, graphics, performance, heat, etc.) but they are all just *excuses*. Come on apple is a computer manufacturor, if they wanted a higher powered MBP13 they could have (re)designed one. Asked nvidia for a smaller GPU (which is custom anyway). Heck they even could have (should have) killed the superdrive, who uses dvd discs in 2010 anyway ... it is not like it is bluray and it uses insane amounts of power. that would make room for a bigger battery, a GPU and an i5.

it is a pefectly fine notebook, but heck it is a PRO notebook and even at a premium price of €1149. I can get two i7 Dells for that (yes i know about the build quality and the touchpad and OSX).

I wanted a MBP13 so bad i already have bought a magic mouse, a crumpler silver sleeve to match the alu finish and a MS$ office 2008 license. But in my book apple could have, or should have, done a better job with the MBP13 but purposely decided not to. I think i will skip it if i can and wait .... again for a better refresh or an affordable Air refresh .... or the 2010 plastic MB (although that will most likely get the same specs as the current MBP without the backlit keyboard and alu finish, the 320 will most likely stick since it is custom made for apple).

darn you apple for making me use this asus-eee 1st gen for another 8 months....
 
It would make sense in theory except for a few problems:

1 - AMD is damaged goods, their market value has dropped substantially in the past 4-5 years.

2 - Apple uses Intel processors in part so that Mac users can also install Windows on their machines. If they go into making their own chips again, they're going to lose Windows support. If they buy AMD, chances are they won't keep making PC hardware, meaning that Windows support will drop fairly quickly.

It works for the iPad because of the closed ecosystem, but I don't think even Apple is crazy enough to try and close off the Mac ecosystem.

1. AMD's market share has dropped because Intel works like a monopoly and actually tried to illegally force AMD out of business... There were multiple lawsuits.. you should read about it.

2. Apple can use AMD and still retain windows support.. you obviously don't understand this stuff..
 
Your reading comprehension is impeccable. Seriously though, read what I wrote again. More R&D could have found a solution. Reorganize their existing mainboard maybe? Thickness has nothing to do with it, the GPU chip isn't 1 inch tall, get a grip man.

You obviously have no idea about components. The increased thickness allows more room for the heatsink. Increased surface area allows for more heat transfer. Also, some components can be rotated to increase space when you increase thickness.
 
1. AMD's market share has dropped because Intel works like a monopoly and actually tried to illegally force AMD out of business... There were multiple lawsuits.. you should read about it.

2. Apple can use AMD and still retain windows support.. you obviously don't understand this stuff..

Did you read the post that I was quoting? He was talking about Apple buying AMD, not simply using the processors. There's nothing to stop Apple from using AMD in their machines, but if they were to buy AMD in order to create their own chips, there's no guarantee it would retain Windows compatibility. Not saying it's impossible, just that it's not likely.

You obviously have no idea about components. The increased thickness allows more room for the heatsink. Increased surface area allows for more heat transfer. Also, some components can be rotated to increase space when you increase thickness.

How does this in any way lend to your argument? Surface area? There are notebooks smaller in surface area than the 13" MBP which still manage to fit in a discrete GPU. Heatsink? Why does a heatsink only need vertical space? Your arguing at tiny points in a big picture. Apple could have redesigned the notebook to include i-series processors. The fact is, they didn't. They used the same design to save money, simple as that. Other have pointed out relatively simple ways that they could have done it, but they didn't because they didn't want to put the money and manpower into R&D, instead diverting it to other divisions.
 
Did you read the post that I was quoting? He was talking about Apple buying AMD, not simply using the processors. There's nothing to stop Apple from using AMD in their machines, but if they were to buy AMD in order to create their own chips, there's no guarantee it would retain Windows compatibility. Not saying it's impossible, just that it's not likely.

yea.. I know but even if Apple purchases AMD or invests in them.. They would only help in the design and architecture of the chip.. it wouldn't be like starting from scratch or anything.. just making big improvements from what's already been created now and in the future..

I think people underestimate how much Apple knows about CPU's, they are not illiterate when it comes to this.. Anything they make will be an improvement on the past.. they won't sacrifice performance by switching to AMD
 
Other have pointed out relatively simple ways that they could have done it, but they didn't because they didn't want to put the money and manpower into R&D, instead diverting it to other divisions.

How? Remove superdrive? Increase thickness? Reduce battery?

Please tell me how. Keeping in mind that we need to add in another chip (same displacement as the cpu roughly) along with the heatsink to dissipate the extra heat (double the current surface area). Take a look at the 2009 MBP13 motherboard. There is simply no room, no amount of R&D can address the space issue.

The VAIO Z is able to do this by having a smaller battery (saving weight as well) and increasing thickness.
 
The Op states that Intel prevents Apple from bundling Arrandale with "alternative integrated graphics". This is an incorrect statement. Read Ars' piece on the issue.
 
the blame falls on Nvidia in my opinion. Back in the day Nvidia was riding high, and figured they'd raise their licensing costs to Intel for SLI. Intel said thanks but no thanks, and in retribution denied them a chipset license for their then unreleased new chipset. It was Nvidia who got themselves into this mess, and they paid dearly for it,
 
-The battery life on the previous 13" MBP was 7 hours advertised. Now, it is up to 10 hours. 3 hours is a BIG difference.
-Having 4GB standard on low end is great (saved myself $50)
-mini-DVI now supports video AND audio, so people can hook their laptop up to their HDTVs
-GPU improvements as you mentioned

All this for the same price? I think it is a big improvement.
2009 13inch battery = 60WHr
2010 13inch battery = 63.5Whr
3.5Whr =/= 3 hours

2009 macbook has mini displayport and I would be shocked if the HDMI adapter didn't work for audio on that too.
 
SJ:

New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level

har har har. well he probably didnt mean the mpb's or not the early refresh. or perhaps he meant the next level of profitability for apple selling old tech for a premium price.
 
wow and here i thought Ars was an independent Tech site, that article is so totally written to suck up on Apple, or perhaps to make MBP13 owners feel good about their €1149 purchase it is hardly funny anymore.

of course all points mentioned are valid (space, graphics, performance, heat, etc.) but they are all just *excuses*. Come on apple is a computer manufacturor, if they wanted a higher powered MBP13 they could have (re)designed one. Asked nvidia for a smaller GPU (which is custom anyway). Heck they even could have (should have) killed the superdrive, who uses dvd discs in 2010 anyway ... it is not like it is bluray and it uses insane amounts of power. that would make room for a bigger battery, a GPU and an i5.

it is a pefectly fine notebook, but heck it is a PRO notebook and even at a premium price of €1149. I can get two i7 Dells for that (yes i know about the build quality and the touchpad and OSX).

I wanted a MBP13 so bad i already have bought a magic mouse, a crumpler silver sleeve to match the alu finish and a MS$ office 2008 license. But in my book apple could have, or should have, done a better job with the MBP13 but purposely decided not to. I think i will skip it if i can and wait .... again for a better refresh or an affordable Air refresh .... or the 2010 plastic MB (although that will most likely get the same specs as the current MBP without the backlit keyboard and alu finish, the 320 will most likely stick since it is custom made for apple).

darn you apple for making me use this asus-eee 1st gen for another 8 months....

Good post. I agree with your sentiments.

Ars did a good job of explaining why, AFTER THE FACT. We can all logicise and theorise til the cows come home about why it is the way it is. But everyone and their grandma was expecting an i3 in the new macbook pro 13.

All it came down to was cost. Maintaining the legendary margins. Look at the 15 inchers much more attractive now than before. Apple is segmenting the gap between 13 and 15. 13 is a higher end Macbook, not really a macbook pro.
 
How? Remove superdrive? Increase thickness? Reduce battery?

Please tell me how. Keeping in mind that we need to add in another chip (same displacement as the cpu roughly) along with the heatsink to dissipate the extra heat (double the current surface area). Take a look at the 2009 MBP13 motherboard. There is simply no room, no amount of R&D can address the space issue.

The VAIO Z is able to do this by having a smaller battery (saving weight as well) and increasing thickness.

All of those are viable options. So is redesigning the motherboard entirely to free up the necessary space. It's still a money and manpower issue.
 
2009 13inch battery = 60WHr
2010 13inch battery = 63.5Whr
3.5Whr =/= 3 hours

2009 macbook has mini displayport and I would be shocked if the HDMI adapter didn't work for audio on that too.

I'm sure they didn't just improve the battery capacity; what about other adjustments to power consumption?
 
It all comes down to chip count, power draw and profit.

Prior to the introduction of the 9400m-based MacBook Pros, standard Macbook motherboards had 3 main chips - the CPU itself, the north bridge, which incorporated the memory controller and Intel graphics, and the south bridge, which handled I/O and various other things.

Macbook Pros, prior to the 9400m, contained 4 main chips - the 3 above (north bridge sans integrated graphics), plus an additional discrete graphics chip.

What made the 9400m special, from a system-builders point of view, is that, in one chip, it provided graphics, north bridge and south bridge functions. This allowed the standard Macbook to go to a 2-chip solution - Intel CPU plus nVidia 9400m, while the Pros, with discrete graphics, went to a 3-chip solution.

From Intel's perspective you can see the business issue - you go from supplying 3/3 or 3/4 of the main chips in the machine, to 1/2 or 1/3.

With the move to Arrandale, the need for a chip to perform north bridge functions (i.e. memory controller) has disappeared, as this is now included within the CPU. Were Apple to include Arrandale in the 13 inch model, and not rely on Intel graphics, they would need a 3-chip solution - CPU, south bridge, and graphics chip, just like the new MacBook Pros. Obviously, for reasons of cost and perhaps power draw, they haven't gone this way, and it seems with the 320m they have a new version of the 9400m, allowing for a Core 2 Duo 2-chip solution.

Why can't nVidia bake an Arrandale-compatible Southbridge into its graphics chip and provide Apple with a 2-chip solution? Because Intel won't grant them the legal ability to do so.

The results? In the new Macbook Pro 15 and 17 inchers, Intel supplies 2 of the 3 main chips, up from 1 out of 3, while Apple has refused to concede defeat with the 13 inch Pro. Clearly a business victory for Intel.
 
Intel preventing Apple from licensing alternative integrated GPU's (i.e. 320M) in combination with the Arrandale CPU's is why we now have a C2D instead of an i3/i5 in the 13" MBP. Doesn't this infuriate anyone? I'm shocked that Apple didn't give Intel a 'kind' kick-in-the-pants. Hopefully these rumors of Apple meeting with AMD will threaten Intel. Hopefully Intel will be less likely to be such a cry-baby with their licensing and Apple doesn't give Intel priority with future products. I understand that i3 counterparts are marginally faster than C2D, but i5 blows C2D out of the water ... and we would have still seen battery life on par, if not still better, than the 15"/17" MBP's.

Thoughts?


If you think about it, Intel and Apple are a lot alike:rolleyes:
 
Guys!

Enough.

Here is the most logical and eloquent reason why Arrandale didn't make the MBP 13.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/why-the-13-macbook-pro-didnt-get-a-core-i5-upgrade.ars

Let me quote your article:

"And if you want something besides the integrated Intel HD graphics—a major improvement over the older IGPs Intel offered, but still not quite as good as the 9400M at certain tasks—you'll also need a discrete GPU."

That is what this entire thread is about. Intel requiring a discrete GPU that the C2D doesn't require.
 
No fanboy. We can blame Apple. They could gotten off their lazy asses, and worked with Intel. They has a special C2D for the MBA, so they could squeeze an innovation into the MBP.
 
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