We make too many excuses for Apple

[blueflower]

Hey guys just thinking that Apple is truly something else and it is because the Apple community allows them to get away with all kinds of things. From chargers left out from iphones and to lack of ports. Why would Apple even think it would be a good idea to promote dongle life? Dongles take away from the beauty of the macbooks. All the macbooks should have a micro sd card slot using a tray slot similar to the iphone that can allow for the insertion of the micro sd card itself (no adapter). Heck that same slot should double for a sim card too given the increased need for meetings and data. The Thinkpad X1 line has a slot with this combo. If Apple had taken this approach heck it would have reduced use of dongles and the early bricking of the M1s would have likely been avoided too.

So annoyed with Apple right now and the fanboys that applaud their every move.

 

[Kung gu]

You are right. The 2016-2019 MacBooks were awful in almost every-way possible. Like 99% bad, the only 1% that was good was the screen and speakers.

I was saddened that Apple was ruining the MacBook Pro on purpose. It seemed like that, the rest of the Mac line up was bad as well. I never once applauded Apple for the 2016-2019 MacBooks, they were IMO the worst high-end laptops ever made.

Now in 2021 it seems Apple might finally listen to its PRO customers. The rumours say the return of SD Card, HDMI and magsafe. The rest are 3 USB4/Thunderbolt 3 ports. The Touch Bar is also going and the the 14" will have better cooling per Ming Chi Kuo.

It started in 2019 when Apple started to listen to its PRO customers, the 2019 Mac Pro brought back expandability and upgradability, the 2019 MacBook Pro 16" had better cooling and updated thermal system and brought back the Scissor Keyboard and WAY better graphics compared to previous 15" Macs.


Seems like Apple is finally realising thats PRO Macs needs and uses are different from consumer macs.
If the new MacBooks Pros have more "legacy" ports, it would seem that Apple had learnt its lesson from ONLY using USB-C for everything.
We will see by the end of this year if Apple does indeed make the MacBook Pro "PRO" again.

As for the MacBook Air, the next redesign will include a magSafe port and 2 USB4 ports. I am fine with this.
This will leave the MacBook Air with 2 open USB ports, as opposed to 1 if it only had 2 USB-C ports and no MagSafe.
The ThinkPad Nano has 2 USB-C ports as well.


As for the bricking of the M1s, yeah PD via USB-C was not properly programmed, good thing Apple did release an update to fix this. I wonder if having a port that does everything a good thing? Maybe thats part of the reason why Apple is bringing back a dedicated charging port. Lenovo does also use a dedicated charging port on their some models too, as well as other OEMs.

To conclude this year is the year where the MacBook's Pros get redesigned, lets see if Apple learnt from their mistakes and we will know by looking and using the MacBooks Pro's and the features they bring.

EDIT: Should any mod feel like this is better suited for the Macbook Pro thread forum. I feel this way too.

 

[blueflower]

@Kung gu you simply get it! First off your mention of the dedicated charging port is something I totally forgot about I use a X1 Tab Gen 3 as my main notebook (until my M1 macbook gets here, first Macbook) and it does have a dedicated charging port! Totally forgot about that and just for good measure even though it does indicate this dedicated port it also charges from the other port too. In fact your message made me put it in the correct port awhile ago.

I will be the first to admit that not listenening to consumers has paid off handsomely for Apple in the past. For example no stylus and keyboards on iphones and in the early days of iPad. However, there comes a point where not listening can be tantamount to resentment. I have been a member here since 2006 and the M1 Mac is my first Mac that says a lot and yet it is still lacking in some ways. Apple at its heart is a purely capitalist company and profit maximization aka pure corporate greed has led them down pathways which to my mind have served to lose them some goodwill points. Legacy ports are an ABSOLUTE must in education for example where many printers, projectors, copiers and specialized equipment use these legacy ports. Then coupled with the lack of ports there is no magsafe (yes I know rumored to return) so dongle life and wires with increased risk of accidents and for the macbook to get damaged. Truly ridiculous. Honestly it is because there is no better alternative right now to the Macbook M1 because I vowed never to buy one until Apple honestly improved their morals surrounding this line of devices.

 

[Kung gu]

Yep I am waiting for the 16" MBP M1 and when you do get your mac update to the latest software version.
I feel Big Sur on M1 macs is a "beta" OS as Apple still needs to optimise many things, just like Windows on ARM but macOS ARM is way better than WoA.

I think the M1 mac will get better as more updates come to it. Memory management was bad and kernal panics were frequent early on but with 11.3 MUCH better. I have heard that 11.4 beta 1 is also improving the memory management.

Things like this will take time, I feel that when the Apple Transition is done the macOS ARM will be stable and optimised. I am very excited about the future of the Mac and was not all excited in 2016-2017.

EDIT: added more info as i sent without finishing

 

[Kung gu]

see the proper update above, I had to edit cause i sent an unfinished post. lol

 

[VaruLV]

Waiting for either 14” MBP or 14” or even 15” MBA update late this year/next year with SD card reader being priority, at least from todays perspective of mine.
Fingers crossed!
PS. If updated MBP or MBA turn out to be less impressive than expected, then 2020 M1 MBP/A are still valid choices given how low their prices should be by the end of this year/beginning of next.

 

[MBAir2010]

obviously Apple designs products to infuse the iCloud and Apple care division of the company.
a micro sd-less card port on the MacBook line was strategically placed were customers would have to bump up their monthly GB usage even with buying a over-priced dongle.
The soldering of ssd drives meant apple sales people can twists arms and re-assure MacBook buyers that for an extra fee they can rest assured that Apple will replace that hard drive if anything goes wrong. to this day im still bothered ny that apple salesperson who would not let up on apple care when after committing to an iPad in 2017.

Back in the day, well 2010 the sales staff at an apple store did not work on commission and did not push apple care or even icloud, granted the MacBook air purchased then did not have a micro-sd card and was sold by a team, not a person like the present. it still to this day boggles the mind that Apple were offering $99.00 to younger and older customers that purchased a new MacBook to transfer their data, iisnt that Time Machine's Job?

So happy i purchased a Dell XPS in 2019 instead of that MacBook air even after the threating posts many posted here stating that i would be rue the day for this purchase and the promise that that notebook will fail and don't run to them when the Dell XPS and windows10 does not work.

well so far, very good!

 

[jdb8167]

Hey guys just thinking that Apple is truly something else and it is because the Apple community allows them to get away with all kinds of things. From chargers left out from iphones and to lack of ports. Why would Apple even think it would be a good idea to promote dongle life? Dongles take away from the beauty of the macbooks. All the macbooks should have a micro sd card slot using a tray slot similar to the iphone that can allow for the insertion of the micro sd card itself (no adapter). Heck that same slot should double for a sim card too given the increased need for meetings and data. The Thinkpad X1 line has a slot with this combo. If Apple had taken this approach heck it would have reduced use of dongles and the early bricking of the M1s would have likely been avoided too.

So annoyed with Apple right now and the fanboys that applaud their every move.

You posted this in the MacBook Air forum because?

 

[MBAir2010]

You posted this in the MacBook Air forum because?

Obviously the topic is random, without an actual subject and when it came to post this,
they were up in the air!

 

[mj_]

Did you ever consider the fact that maybe, just maybe, not everybody needs all of those or quite possibly even any of those ports? That most users never plug anything into their laptops other than their charger and maybe a thumb drive every once in a while? That most people simply don't care about the lack of an SD card reader because they use their smartphones to take photos and synchronize those via iCloud or Google Photos and wouldn't even know what an SD card is? That for most regular users out there peripherals are accessed via wireless networks from the kitchen table, the backyard, the couch, etc.? Yes, some people will be left by the wayside, but it will be a (vocal) yet in the grand scheme of things insignificant minority. Just like the dinosaurs that bemoaned the loss of legacy ports on the original iMac and the sudden and unexpected obsoleteness of all their precious SCSI periphery. And yet the original iMac sold like hot cakes.

Please note that I am specifically talking about Apple's consumer line-up. Their pro line-up is a completely different story and would definitely benefit from better overall connectivity. But the MacBook Air or entry-level iMac? I think not.

 

[Pakaku]

Please note that I am specifically talking about Apple's consumer line-up. Their pro line-up is a completely different story and would definitely benefit from better overall connectivity. But the MacBook Air or entry-level iMac? I think not.

It would benefit from pro-level connectivity, but right now the Pro models don't have those benefits. So until Apple announces a refresh worth waiting for, Pros are out of luck for now

 

[Apple_Robert]

I don't need a bunch of ports coming out the Mac. I can easily get by with 1 USB-C port and then plug in my Thunderbolt dock.

I don't buy Apple for the artwork. I buy Apple because of the quality of the devices and the integration between them.

 

[Abazigal]

Hey guys just thinking that Apple is truly something else and it is because the Apple community allows them to get away with all kinds of things. From chargers left out from iphones and to lack of ports. Why would Apple even think it would be a good idea to promote dongle life? Dongles take away from the beauty of the macbooks. All the macbooks should have a micro sd card slot using a tray slot similar to the iphone that can allow for the insertion of the micro sd card itself (no adapter). Heck that same slot should double for a sim card too given the increased need for meetings and data. The Thinkpad X1 line has a slot with this combo. If Apple had taken this approach heck it would have reduced use of dongles and the early bricking of the M1s would have likely been avoided too.

So annoyed with Apple right now and the fanboys that applaud their every move.

I think people spend too much time trying to explain away Apple’s success, rather than explain it.

My advice as always is to approach these topics from Apple’s perspective. Begin with Apple, and then look outwards at different industries. Rather than first cover an industry, then attempt to draw a link to Apple from time to time. I feel this tends to lead to error and inaccurate analysis, because you are comparing Apple too much to other companies, and you are not allowing Apple’s unique attributes to speak for themselves or recognise how Apple is able to set themselves apart from the competition.

The best way of covering Apple is to begin with Apple. You have to focus with Apple, and then you move outwards. You start with Apple, and then you analyse the industry that Apple operates in. Instead, what I see a lot of people still do today is that they just treat Apple as any other company. But Apple does a lot of things differently, and if all you are doing is simply comparing Apple to everyone else and then go “Hey, Apple isn’t following what everyone else is doing, so I don’t think whatever Apple is doing is going to work”, I think they go down the wrong path.

 

[MBAir2010]

Apple is to begin with Apple. You have to focus with Apple, and then you move outwards.

BINGO!
which should embarrassing for  because nothing  is running my late 2010 MacBook Air except for annoying iCloud
the healthy well kept still functioning MacBook is running a great OSX via thanks to a a patch from dude, my scanner from an aussie dude, music by foobar, Edge is the most stable browser and Fledging supplies the roomy ssdrive.
if the macbook did not more outwards, this would be sitting in a box.

 

[jimkingwood]

You are right. The 2016-2019 MacBooks were awful in almost every-way possible. Like 99% bad, the only 1% that was good was the screen and speakers.

I was saddened that Apple was ruining the MacBook Pro on purpose. It seemed like that, the rest of the Mac line up was bad as well. I never once applauded Apple for the 2016-2019 MacBooks, they were IMO the worst high-end laptops ever made.

Now in 2021 it seems Apple might finally listen to its PRO customers. The rumours say the return of SD Card, HDMI and magsafe. The rest are 3 USB4/Thunderbolt 3 ports. The Touch Bar is also going and the the 14" will have better cooling per Ming Chi Kuo.

It started in 2019 when Apple started to listen to its PRO customers, the 2019 Mac Pro brought back expandability and upgradability, the 2019 MacBook Pro 16" had better cooling and updated thermal system and brought back the Scissor Keyboard and WAY better graphics compared to previous 15" Macs.


Seems like Apple is finally realising thats PRO Macs needs and uses are different from consumer macs.
If the new MacBooks Pros have more "legacy" ports, it would seem that Apple had learnt its lesson from ONLY using USB-C for everything.
We will see by the end of this year if Apple does indeed make the MacBook Pro "PRO" again.

As for the MacBook Air, the next redesign will include a magSafe port and 2 USB4 ports. I am fine with this.
This will leave the MacBook Air with 2 open USB ports, as opposed to 1 if it only had 2 USB-C ports and no MagSafe.
The ThinkPad Nano has 2 USB-C ports as well.


As for the bricking of the M1s, yeah PD via USB-C was not properly programmed, good thing Apple did release an update to fix this. I wonder if having a port that does everything a good thing? Maybe thats part of the reason why Apple is bringing back a dedicated charging port. Lenovo does also use a dedicated charging port on their some models too, as well as other OEMs.

To conclude this year is the year where the MacBook's Pros get redesigned, lets see if Apple learnt from their mistakes and we will know by looking and using the MacBooks Pro's and the features they bring.

EDIT: Should any mod feel like this is better suited for the Macbook Pro thread forum. I feel this way too.

"they were IMO the worst high-end laptops ever made."

Well in high-end web development probably 8/10 SW Engineers use MBP. At least in my experience that's the case. The C-port-only concept would have been great if Apple had converted all of its products to C so that a mix of cables would not be neccessary.

Apple going back to all the old crap ports would be a step backwards and I don't believe they will do that. The solution is to take everything else to C. I just about **** my pants when the iPhone 12 was released with lightning.

Everything is online. Who needs data card readers?

 

[VaruLV]

Everything is online. Who needs data card readers?

Photographers, videographers, people that work with audio devices?
I for one have little hobby of recording wildlife sounds here and there, Im using full sized SD card in my simple and tidy setup instead of MicroSD with adapter to lower possible interference during recording.
My future laptop having SD card reader would be great, because I might not carry all the cables with me all the time, esp. given that I would need either to buy extra USB C to Mini USB cable or just take my USB A to C adapter that I have lying around that came with my previous phone. Sometimes just plugging my recorder directly into computing device would be easier than opening card slot doors and pulling the card out and putting it into the laptop. But thats just me since my files arent huge and wouldnt suffer too much of slow transfer speeds, but thats just me, people with lots of hi-res photos and 4k video from their cameras would highly disagree with this since you will get much faster transfer speeds when inserting the card directly into laptop.
I do get the point of yours, but its not just Apple, its the whole industry that should convert to USB-C ports AND USB-C 10/20/40 transfer speeds, which, frankly, wont be happening any time soon.

 

[11235813]

There are things to criticize about Apple products, but they they pale in comparison to everything wrong that is going on elsewhere. I use Windows laptops and Microsoft software at work, so I can make a direct comparison.

For example, the latest high end 2 in 1 Dell laptop that I was given has a big flaw. It overheats, so when used in clamshell mode for a long time, the paint on the keyboard keys sticks to the screen and doesn't come off. Apparently nobody tested for this. The touchscreen mode also is a total joke since Windows is not really made for touch. The keyboard is laughable. The trackpad is a joke. The user experience is terrible. Remind you, this is a high end laptop. When you experience things like this, Apple's flaws look miniscule in comparison.

 

[Lihp8270]

Photographers, videographers, people that work with audio devices?
I for one have little hobby of recording wildlife sounds here and there, Im using full sized SD card in my simple and tidy setup instead of MicroSD with adapter to lower possible interference during recording.
My future laptop having SD card reader would be great, because I might not carry all the cables with me all the time, esp. given that I would need either to buy extra USB C to Mini USB cable or just take my USB A to C adapter that I have lying around that came with my previous phone. Sometimes just plugging my recorder directly into computing device would be easier than opening card slot doors and pulling the card out and putting it into the laptop. But thats just me since my files arent huge and wouldnt suffer too much of slow transfer speeds, but thats just me, people with lots of hi-res photos and 4k video from their cameras would highly disagree with this since you will get much faster transfer speeds when inserting the card directly into laptop.
I do get the point of yours, but its not just Apple, its the whole industry that should convert to USB-C ports AND USB-C 10/20/40 transfer speeds, which, frankly, wont be happening any time soon.

But most photographers etc aren’t even using SD cards these days. If you’re arguing for photographers having built in ports. Then surely XQD would be more suitable than SD which I’d expect most consumer and high end consumer devices to use.

It’s been a while since I worked as a pro, but even with built in readers I’d always use a USB device from a reputable company.

You’re arguing the device isn’t for “Pros” but you’re really arguing that you personally want quality of life additions for your personal usage.

Why does your “Pro” use ideology trump anybody else’s?

There are plenty of sectors that use these devices which should they cater for? Developers have different requirements than videographers, photographers, authors, editors, sound engineers, musicians, data analysts, etc, etc.

The thing is that you can meet all these demands with USB-C. I can have a dock on my desk with power and display etc all plugged in with only 1 cable to my MacBook needed. So I can sit down plug 1 cable in and be ready to work, I can then unplug 1 cable and be on the go instantly. This workflow works for every profession.

Some that work in the field etc such as photographers will have multiple card readers, they will have multiple cables, etc. There are zero working professionals in the field relying on built in devices so they don’t have to carry cables. You carry multiple of everything so you have redundancy if something fails and you need to still output the work.

The truth is that often people complaining about “ports” on a pro device don’t use that device as working professionals do. They’re advanced hobbyists that want quality of life without investing in a proper workflow as a professional would.

 

[Bazza1]

'Twas always thus - but they've always had the traditional hardcore Macolytes who long ago drank the Kool-Aid - back when they thought themselves cool to be basement-dwelling computer hobbyists, who chose to be one of the few who had a Macintosh or PowerBook; and who continue to blame the users for posted issues on Apple's Support Forums, rather than admit there's a problem. And Apple has always used that wall of defence, until an issue becomes so big that it hits the popular Media and they are forced to fix it.

As for this thread on the Air Forum, let's not forget that it was the 2018 model that Apple actually made less-useful - removing MagSafe and a majority of the ports in favour of two new previously unused ones that required users to go the additional (expensive) dongle route in order to maintain any sort of 'legacy' connectivity (and that, hardly the first time) - negating the value of the original device as seen slipped into a Manilla envelope. Oh sure, you might not need every port , or every day - but they were there. Built-in. And when some complained of this lapse, the rabid Macolytes came to Apple's defence once again -
"Yeah, but ya got a Retina screen!"
Like that justified making the Air less capable. And, as ever, anyone who disagreed were Losers who didn't deserve to have an Apple product.

The breathless reviews by some of the online and print magazines and newspapers regarding each next OS feature show that there are still those (fanfolk or paid to) who ignore the lapses rather than challenge Apple to be better. And that does no one (even Apple) any favours.

 

[Bazza1]

There are things to criticize about Apple products, but they they pale in comparison to everything wrong that is going on elsewhere. I use Windows laptops and Microsoft software at work, so I can make a direct comparison.

For example, the latest high end 2 in 1 Dell laptop that I was given has a big flaw. It overheats, so when used in clamshell mode for a long time, the paint on the keyboard keys sticks to the screen and doesn't come off. Apparently nobody tested for this. The touchscreen mode also is a total joke since Windows is not really made for touch. The keyboard is laughable. The trackpad is a joke. The user experience is terrible. Remind you, this is a high end laptop. When you experience things like this, Apple's flaws look miniscule in comparison.

Ah, be careful not to use the ploy of the fanfolk (and occasional former President) on justifying faults and failures when compared with someone else. Easiest con going - "Yeah, but look at the other guy!".

A severe case of "Squirrel!" doesn't make the offending thing better - just makes those using the tactic look desperate.

 

[VaruLV]

But most photographers etc aren’t even using SD cards these days. If you’re arguing for photographers having built in ports. Then surely XQD would be more suitable than SD which I’d expect most consumer and high end consumer devices to use.

It’s been a while since I worked as a pro, but even with built in readers I’d always use a USB device from a reputable company.

You’re arguing the device isn’t for “Pros” but you’re really arguing that you personally want quality of life additions for your personal usage.

Why does your “Pro” use ideology trump anybody else’s?

There are plenty of sectors that use these devices which should they cater for? Developers have different requirements than videographers, photographers, authors, editors, sound engineers, musicians, data analysts, etc, etc.

The thing is that you can meet all these demands with USB-C. I can have a dock on my desk with power and display etc all plugged in with only 1 cable to my MacBook needed. So I can sit down plug 1 cable in and be ready to work, I can then unplug 1 cable and be on the go instantly. This workflow works for every profession.

Some that work in the field etc such as photographers will have multiple card readers, they will have multiple cables, etc. There are zero working professionals in the field relying on built in devices so they don’t have to carry cables. You carry multiple of everything so you have redundancy if something fails and you need to still output the work.

The truth is that often people complaining about “ports” on a pro device don’t use that device as working professionals do. They’re advanced hobbyists that want quality of life without investing in a proper workflow as a professional would.

Eh?
Are you sure youre quoting the right person, because judging by the content of your post youre clearly arguing with someone else and about different things that Ive written.

 

[chrono1081]

These threads are exhausting, just because someone doesn't like feature X doesn't mean its bad or others don't like it. I for one love four USB-C ports, the flexibility is unparalleled. HDMI is awful and needs to go the way of the dodo, give me larger battery any day vs an HDMI port.

I'm sick of hearing "you're making excuses", no I LIKE what Apple is doing, it's not "excuses" at all, and judging by their sales, others like it too.

 

[1rottenapple]

I give the OP so points. I agree with many aspects. What I can also say is I am in the market for a gaming laptop and man finding a bright screen, excellent tract pad, and excellent keyboard is challenging. There’s always one item that’s missing in the gaming laptops I’m looking at. Having not bought windows in 20 years there’s things I appreciate about apple and things that irritate me.

 

[ghanwani]

Apple's marketing is very, very strong. They also pay a lot of attention to aesthetics. This means when you look at their website, you tend to expect perfection.

The downside of such strong marketing, which is great for brand cachet, is that unless their products are flawless, they lead to buyer's remorse in the population that can perceive the issues in question. Flaws can be due to less-than-perfect QC or due to design choices. In the former case, those who luck out and get a good unit, or those that are incapable to perceiving the issue in question will think that those complaining are nuts. In the latter case, missing/poorly designed features matter to some more than others.

I used to see these kinds of posts all the time in BMW forums -- complaints about pricing, features, reliability, customer service. It all boils down to expectation. When marketing > engineering, disappointment ensues (think BMW). When it's the reverse, customers are bored but satisfied (think Honda).

Unfortunately, because of a duopoly in OSes, unlike autos, there's little choice with computers and phones. Back in the day Sony and Toshiba made some decent laptops, but Windows was always Windows. Right now Sony makes some good phones, but once you get off iOS, then you're essentially using spyware.

If it wasn't for these forums, I might think there's something wrong with me when, e.g., I experience headaches with laptop or phone due to display issues.

Bottomline Apple's marketing >> engineering, so you will always find people deeply dissatisfied, but there is no real alternative.

 

[Abazigal]

Hey guys just thinking that Apple is truly something else and it is because the Apple community allows them to get away with all kinds of things. From chargers left out from iphones and to lack of ports. Why would Apple even think it would be a good idea to promote dongle life? Dongles take away from the beauty of the macbooks. All the macbooks should have a micro sd card slot using a tray slot similar to the iphone that can allow for the insertion of the micro sd card itself (no adapter). Heck that same slot should double for a sim card too given the increased need for meetings and data. The Thinkpad X1 line has a slot with this combo. If Apple had taken this approach heck it would have reduced use of dongles and the early bricking of the M1s would have likely been avoided too.

So annoyed with Apple right now and the fanboys that applaud their every move.

I have mentioned it before in numerous other threads, and I will repeat it here again.

The biggest issue I have with all these “Apple has lost its way” threads is that is often too much focus on specs and not enough on the user experience.

There is not enough of “how does one use this product to get more out of technology”.

My advice, as always, is to approach these topics from Apple’s perspective. For me, I like to begin with Apple, and then I look outwards at different industries. What many other people tend to do is to first cover an industry, then they attempt to draw a link to Apple from time to time. I feel this tends to lead to error and inaccurate analysis, because you are comparing Apple too much to other companies, and you are not allowing Apple’s unique attributes to speak for themselves or recognise how Apple is able to set themselves apart from the competition.

The best way of covering Apple is to begin with Apple. You have to focus with Apple, and then you move outwards. You start with Apple, and then you analyse the industry that Apple operates in. Instead, what I see a lot of people still do today is that they just treat Apple as any other company. But Apple does a lot of things differently, and if all you are doing is simply comparing Apple to everyone else and then go “Hey, Apple isn’t following what everyone else is doing, so I don’t think whatever Apple is doing is going to work”, I think they go down the wrong path.