Web Apps SUCK

pwolfe

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 17, 2007
36
0
I am starting to really lose my patience with how slow applications load and the general lack of good software for my iphone. I want to let apple know that I am mad as hell about their choice to exclude 3rd party developers. Where is the best place for me to have my voice heard on this matter? I'm thinking an online petition needs to be made. Any suggestions?
 

plumbingandtech

macrumors 68000
Jun 20, 2007
1,993
1
I am starting to really lose my patience with how slow applications load and the general lack of good software for my iphone. Where is the best place for me to have my voice heard on this matter? I'm thinking an online petition needs to be made. Any suggestions?
http://www.apple.com/contact/

maybe somewhere here.


I want to let apple know that I am mad as hell about their choice to exclude 3rd party developers.
Choice?

You don't think it _could be_ that they simply did not have the time or resources to release a full api on day 1?
 

pwolfe

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 17, 2007
36
0
http://www.apple.com/contact/

maybe somewhere here.




Choice?

You don't think it _could be_ that they simply did not have the time or resources release a full api on day 1?
I understand that I am an early adopter and that I will have to be patient for some of the features I wish I could have, but I was under the impression that Apple's stance was NO 3rd party apps, not 3rd party apps when we are finished with the API.
 

plumbingandtech

macrumors 68000
Jun 20, 2007
1,993
1
I understand that I am an early adopter and that I will have to be patient for some of the features I wish I could have, but I was under the impression that Apple's stance was NO 3rd party apps, not 3rd party apps when we are finished with the API.
Currently that is the stance.

But the overwheleming desire by users and developers, (and this is just my opinion.) is that apple will switch gears and release a full api.

I think the key here is that apple will announce that apps must be be sent thru some form of testing and approval process to get the "works fine with iphone" label on it.

And since this testing will cost some $$$ this will help to keep us out of the palm 3rd party problems of instablity.
 
We're only a couple of weeks in. I strongly believe quite a number of people will rethink their opinion of web apps when platforms for them begin to become more mature and ubiquitous. If I had a team of programmers at my beck and call I'd change some minds today... As it stands, I can only say "have some patience".

~ CB
 

plumbingandtech

macrumors 68000
Jun 20, 2007
1,993
1
We're only a couple of weeks in. I strongly believe quite a number of people will rethink their opinion of web apps when platforms for them begin to become more mature and ubiquitous. If I had a team of programmers at my beck and call I'd change some minds today... As it stands, I can only say "have some patience".

~ CB
Meh for me though. I agree witht he OP though. For a lot of stuff they just suck and the tech just won't get there anytime soon.

For browsing and searching etc.. they are fine. But for other stuff (like even a grocercy list.) they blow for me.. since everytime i go into my grocery store I lose my edge signal.

Ummm eggs.. yah and milk.. i think.
 

Tommyg117

macrumors 6502a
Sep 27, 2005
570
0
Philadelphia, PA
I end up just not using them because they are so slow. It's like a feature that isn't even there. We better get a software update with some new features
 

michelle21

macrumors regular
Jun 29, 2007
196
0
I am starting to really lose my patience with how slow applications load and the general lack of good software for my iphone. I want to let apple know that I am mad as hell about their choice to exclude 3rd party developers. Where is the best place for me to have my voice heard on this matter? I'm thinking an online petition needs to be made. Any suggestions?
really what do you want....

Most phone applications are connected, that means a backend server which means a web connection. This true of the mobile 6 devices as well as the iphone.

That said, those apps that don't require a server perhaps could somehow be cached, javascript can be run locally as well as servered, and apple may have something in mind.

Apple said no traditional api for the iphone, but this does not mean they won't come up with something new different.

One thing I thought of , since the iphone is running essentially a stripped down version of osx it might be possible for them (apple) to run an instance of an internal server, than when not in wifi range (or edge) the ajax applications could run natively.

Maybe I'm spoiled because I seem to be in wifi coverage at least 90% of the time. Probably hell for someone who has to travel I guess.
 

uNext

macrumors 6502
Aug 21, 2006
358
0
I agree webb apps are not revolutionary
but with this surge of apps that came out i think apple wont back down from their word.......I mean think about it if they do open up th3rd party support all the developers would be so pissed at apple for making them weaste their time with developing webb apps that we might see virus attacks comeing from left and right field.

It is too depp now for apple to retract back
 

jamesarm97

macrumors 65816
Sep 29, 2006
1,060
65
Meh for me though. I agree witht he OP though. For a lot of stuff they just suck and the tech just won't get there anytime soon.

For browsing and searching etc.. they are fine. But for other stuff (like even a grocercy list.) they blow for me.. since everytime i go into my grocery store I lose my edge signal.

Ummm eggs.. yah and milk.. i think.
Amen, I have tried twice to do a to-do list in the store and I get no signal every time. I also tried to use the iphone 'scriptures' at church and did not have a signal. So last week I preloaded the page with our lesson on it and 15 minutes into it Safari shutdown and then when I restarted it I could not load the page because of the no signal. Please give us built in apps (eWallet, eBook, pdf storage and such). :mad:
 

neut

macrumors 68000
Nov 27, 2001
1,843
0
here (for now)
Ummm eggs.. yah and milk.. i think.

Why don't you use the built in Notes app for a simple list like that? I used it last night for a trip to the store and it worked just fine. No connection necessary thought I have a strong connection to Edge throughout the whole valley.
_


peace | neut
 

michelle21

macrumors regular
Jun 29, 2007
196
0
I agree webb apps are not revolutionary
but with this surge of apps that came out i think apple wont back down from their word.......I mean think about it if they do open up th3rd party support all the developers would be so pissed at apple for making them weaste their time with developing webb apps that we might see virus attacks comeing from left and right field.

It is too depp now for apple to retract back
web apps are not revolutionary... but ajax never real caught on outside certain circles, but the iphone is pushing it into the mainstream.

I'm amazed at what ajax can do, I never delved that deep into javascript before, but now I am looking at a whole new way of changing my development philosophy, I've been a developer for many years.

What I think needs to happen , and you might actually see this from apple or if some third party can hack something that runs on the phone (hey , they crack the psp) . is to run a small webserver on the iphone. And that would solve the issue of local apps vs. connected apps. So when your at the market or church and outside of wifi range you would connect to localhost, otherwise connect to the net. , servers can be written in pretty much any language, and I've seen them in as little as 20 lines of code.
Doesn't take much to server javascript, since the browser does most of the work. Couple this with a derby database and you have a nice local dev app platform. Unitl apple decides to support 3g, and then there won't be that much need for the internal apps anymore.

I do this on my laptop for I can run wordpress and a few other webapps when i'm on the road.
 

pwolfe

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 17, 2007
36
0
All you people supporting the webapp platform dont see anything wrong with having to wait 20-30 seconds for a page to load so you can edit an office document? What if, like me, you work in an area with network deadzones (hospital in my case) and need to access these features. Am i just SOL? Should I take my money elsewhere? I know I'm not the only person with this sentiment.
 

mian

macrumors member
May 25, 2003
77
0
Austin, TX
What I think needs to happen , and you might actually see this from apple or if some third party can hack something that runs on the phone (hey , they crack the psp) . is to run a small webserver on the iphone. And that would solve the issue of local apps vs. connected apps. So when your at the market or church and outside of wifi range you would connect to localhost, otherwise connect to the net. , servers can be written in pretty much any language, and I've seen them in as little as 20 lines of code.
Doesn't take much to server javascript, since the browser does most of the work. Couple this with a derby database and you have a nice local dev app platform. Unitl apple decides to support 3g, and then there won't be that much need for the internal apps anymore.

I do this on my laptop for I can run wordpress and a few other webapps when i'm on the road.[/QUOTE]

This might be the solution at some point.

http://gears.google.com/
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,892
28
Northern Virginia
All you people supporting the webapp platform dont see anything wrong with having to wait 20-30 seconds for a page to load so you can edit an office document? What if, like me, you work in an area with network deadzones (hospital in my case) and need to access these features. Am i just SOL? Should I take my money elsewhere? I know I'm not the only person with this sentiment.
Add to that Apple only promised us a phone with the basic features we have today. I respect Apple at this time trying to protect the phone portion of the iPhone from being corrupted by other apps from 3rd parties.
 

macgolfer53

macrumors newbie
Jul 10, 2007
12
0
on the other hand email is a great app for many things

my wife called me and asked what did I want for dinner - I emailed her a link to a recipe which she used to do her shopping - there are many workarounds for a lot of needed apps - I guess I don't get what are the really highly needed 3rd party apps that you can't live without that don''t have a workaround
 

Chip NoVaMac

macrumors G3
Dec 25, 2003
8,892
28
Northern Virginia
Why don't you use the built in Notes app for a simple list like that? I used it last night for a trip to the store and it worked just fine. No connection necessary thought I have a strong connection to Edge throughout the whole valley.
_


peace | neut
This is the one sore point for me on the iPhone. Love the ability to make notes on the iPhone, but am bugged that I can't use a Notes app even on my iMac that is ported over to my iPhone.

To me this is the biggest missing feature....
 

pwolfe

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 17, 2007
36
0
my wife called me and asked what did I want for dinner - I emailed her a link to a recipe which she used to do her shopping - there are many workarounds for a lot of needed apps - I guess I don't get what are the really highly needed 3rd party apps that you can't live without that don''t have a workaround
I didnt pay $600 for workarounds. I paid $600 for a state of the art platform with solid applications, not webapps that i can only use with network access that take forever to load for the simplest of tasks.

Like I said earlier, I know im an early adopter, I'm not asking for these features to be implemented over night, I just want to know that the possiblity is there, because as it is, the iphone's solution to custom apps is just lame lame lame. When it comes to 3rd party apps I dont want to be limited by Safari, I want to be limited by the hardware.
 

boss1

macrumors 6502a
Jan 8, 2007
978
36
Web Apps Suck
Amen. I was reluctant to pass judgement on the idea during release but I'm starting to agree more and more now. It just doesn't work well. Especially if those services are important enough for the user that they need to be 1. secure. and 2. not reliant on a very edgy connection (no pun intended).

Quote from SJ on this subject...
If you watched the Steve Jobs and Bill Gates television interview with the WSJ

Steve jobs said, "The reason google maps on the iPhone is so much better than google's version of google maps is because iPhone's google maps is a rich client that's runs on iPhone hardware, not some version of software that's limited by a web browser".
Well it's not an exact word for word quote (i'm too lazy to look up the video and type out his speech) but thats pretty much what he said.

Now if only he could put his money where his mouth is and give us more rich client apps that run off the iPhone directly. Tied into to backend cloud services or not. People want a rich Messaging app, a rich TO DO app etc.
 

pwolfe

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 17, 2007
36
0
Amen. I was reluctant to pass judgement on the idea during release but I'm starting to agree more and more now. It just doesn't work well. Especially if those services are important enough for the user that they need to be 1. secure. and 2. not reliant on a very edgy connection (no pun intended).

Quote from SJ on this subject...
If you watched the Steve Jobs and Bill Gates television interview with the WSJ



Well it's not an exact word for word quote (i'm too lazy to look up the video and type out his speech) but thats pretty much what he said.

Now if only he could put his money where his mouth is and give us more rich client apps that run off the iPhone directly. Tied into to backend cloud services or not. People want a rich Messaging app, a rich TO DO app etc.
I couldnt have said it better.
 

plumbingandtech

macrumors 68000
Jun 20, 2007
1,993
1
The iPhone was in development for 4 years.Thats plenty of time to produce a dev kit for the device.
2 years. was what he said in Jan. Even if it was longer, you ever make a big item? You ever go down the road for months only to discover you have to change your path and wasted 9 months?

Development is not linear a-z perfect.

And you still say this despite apple pulling people from the leopard team AND delaying leopard?

Really?
 
2 years. was what he said in Jan. Even if it was longer, you ever make a big item? You ever go down the road for months only to discover you have to change your path and wasted 9 months?

Development is not linear a-z perfect.

And you still say this despite apple pulling people from the leopard team AND delaying leopard?

Really?
I can't even argue with people like that, more power to you. I think of all the reasons why they don't make ANY sense, and after a while, my mind just spits out a piece of paper... I read it... have a horrified look on my face and hurry away. Better to just recognize that some folks have strong opinions about things they have little real experience on... and one feed the other.

~ CB
 

plumbingandtech

macrumors 68000
Jun 20, 2007
1,993
1
I can't even argue with people like that, more power to you. I think of all the reasons why they don't make ANY sense, and after a while, my mind just spits out a piece of paper... I read it... have a horrified look on my face and hurry away. Better to just recognize that some folks have strong opinions about things they have little real experience on... and one feed the other.

~ CB
heh. I realized I had not eaten a big chocolate chip cookie from yesterday so I ate that. I feel better now.:D
 

yayaba

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2007
297
0
San Francisco Bay Area
I haven't really used any of the apps besides the MovieApp (which incredibly I use a LOT more than I thought I would've) and JiveTalk. But I agree, WebApps aren't really the way to go.

If the iPhone can accomplish something as slick as CoverFlow, think about what developers could do with CoreAnimation, CoreVideo, and CoreAudio on the device. Sigh.

Didn't the hackers discover that everything ran in root though? I guess the first step Apple would need to do is to have user level permissions activated in the OS in order to allow anyone to touch a SDK.