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Weird G4 iMac shipping

Agreed, Beer is the solitary most important thing in the world.
When your friends abandon you, you know you will always have a tempting little friend in beer. Beer wont leave me, and i wont leave beer. We have a solid relationship.

U should try kenyan beer, has an aftertaste of cola.
 
umm... okay..

everyone's imacs should arrive soon.. my neighbor got his this morning... without any damaged parts...
 
abuse of taiwanese

Everyone just ignore Gigawire.

Right. That's what they said about all the other jerks down the ages who thoughtlessly attack people because of their nationality or race or religion. That is the last thing we should do, cut the guy slack because he is having a bad day, or his stuff got damaged. and goofwire, don't do it for fun either, that is even sicker so dont try to weasel out of your spot you put yourself in because some people call you on your slimey post.
Spikey is right, those people are good enough to assemble your proudest possession, why dont you show some respect? I bet a huge part of your personal identity is wrapped up in your Mac, and those people built it. They also have to figure out what to do with all the nasty waste products left over after they ship it. Oh, I guess thats the price they must pay for your largesse?
Tadpole, I hope you can get out more and see the world before you put on a Marines uniform, that was your plan right? ( If I got the right guy? If I dont then excuse me) Also you can show your patriotism in other ways, join an NGO aid agency, help people get clean water etc. Or go overseas and teach English.
And don't dis canadian beer. It will put you on your ass and under the table. Oh, and back to the Taiwanese, yes there was a Taiwanese people, they got overrun by the japanese and mainlanders and they live with the constant threat of
 
taiwan

invasion.
Something the USA doesnt really need to worry about. You might get these attacks, but is anybody gonna overrun you? I think not?
Anyway enjoy your new Macs, and respect other people.
 
what the FFFFFUUU......?

When did a web page for computer nerds who think they know anything about stuff that hasent been released yet become such conflicting racism argument?

FACT: this page is ABOUT computers! not people! if you have any information or help that you can shair about computers PLEASE shair them! but im sure i speak for everyone on this BBS and the people reading when i say, NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR OPINIONS! or your "personal" beliefs on ANY topic! we only want the facts! not the OPINIONS! so please shut up, and if you dont know any thing about the topic or computers DONT POST! we dont want to have to see things like this!

PEACE, LOVE, SMOKEING WEED thats what its all about, CHILL People!
even after 9-11 i cant believe we have to still go through this crap!

FACT: people are stupid! SO SHUT THE FÜÇk UP!

AND KEEP YOUR OPINIONS TO YOURSELF!
 
opinions

whoa dude smoke some more

we reserve the right to reply to jerks who verbally attack people for no reason.

when th ereason for the thread is just chest beating . . .
"I got my iMac"
"mine is in Anchorage"
it is pretty silly, like the poor guy in Venzuela pointed out, the real value of things seems to be a little distorted here. So it is real easy for it to get derailed.
If there were any facts about the matter, they might matter. But there are none. Lots of people probubly got Mac this week, the just get to work or play.
and they don't misspell the name of a UK clothing retailer when they get upset and have no arguement.
 
Just for the record, I love Taiwan. 42 products in my house come from Taiwan. The Taiwanese I have dealt with remind me of the ambition found here in the 1930's-50's, then in Japan in 70's-80's.

I showed this thread to 2 taiwanese co-workers of mine today. You know, just to see if maybe it would offend them. They had a good laugh.
Just to clarify, none of the original post was true. I never ordered an iMac. My iPod came completely intact. Bill Clinton never signed a free trade agreement with Taiwan. The only point of the post was humor. Without its context and within the context of the original thread; and all of the shipping ones like it. Gotta think a little to get it. Alas, thinking differently is not a particularly strong attribute of Apple's customers?
 
Weird G4 iMacs, the US, etc...

Well, I for one am a proud American and like to think that I'd give my life for this country and its citizens if ever called to. But that doesn't mean that I believe everything this country does is right.

The US has pushed its weight around and made enemies, and I fully understand the international community's problems with us. The greenhouse gas issue, the recent incident with China and our spy plane, etc., all understandably give many out there the impression that we're a nation who doesn't give a damn about anyone but ourselves, that we snub our noses at the rest of the world. And we have.

But none of this justifies the murder of nearly 3,000 civilians. We're at war, where we should be. And I hope that we mercilessly crush our enemies. Watching the miles-long pillar of smoke emanate from what used to be two 107-floor skyscrapers, all from the roof of your apartment does that to you.

The US has given me a good life. And until recently, I lived in the best city in the world, NY. And like it or not, for all the claims of American ignorance, we are at the forefront of computer electronics innovation. Like the Europeans and Asians rule the automobile industry, we rule the computer industry. And I'm sure no one's forgotten that our favorite computer company is based in this great nation. But like this great nation, it is imperfect and sometimes snubs its nose at others. Apple got spanked last year and Steve became more humble. We got spanked--if you want to call it that--a few months ago, and we have been humbled. We now know that we are not immune to getting a bloody nose. This has served as a massive wake-up call, and I think/hope that in the long run, it will make us a better country.

President Bush is already talking about fuel cells and limiting oil usage. Now for whatever his reasons, this is a good thing. He's realized his/our need for friends, to which the NATO patrols over our skies attest. Hopefully this trend will continue, and we'll be even a better country than we were before 9/11. But either way, this is my nation and because it is, I will criticize it when it does badly in an effort to make it better. And I will defend it when someone attacks (verbally or militarily) because it provides me with freedom as well as good living standards.

And let's not forget that if it wasn't for America, there might not even be an iMac. Now if only America could pump out a desktop G5...
 
Gigawire wrote...

"Alas, thinking differently is not a particularly strong attribute of Apple's customers?"

Ha! Too funny. I think Apple would like to keep it this way, that's for sure. "Think Different. Just as long as you think the way we want you to."
 
i am giving back

i am giving back already without putting on a uniform. i volunteer teach biology in the Chicago Public School system. most of the kids have never heard of mitochondrial DNA. the lack of equitable infrastructure development in our own country is scary, some places in the Appalachia don't even have safe drinking water.

i am putting on a uniform because i am an idealist, i think that one day, perhaps, i would be in a position where i can influence foreign policy. be in a position perhaps where i can bring moderation back into our reactionary system. one day, i would like to be a US senator, right now as a 21 year old student, i'm doing my best to build my creditials. the desire to wear a uniform was not brought on by Sept. 11, rather, i've been deliberating it since my first year of college, i am now a third year. i've put a lot of thought and prayer into it, as well as interviewing lifers and seeing how it affected them. i will always carry the sin of killing upon taking up the rifle and ruck sack, however it is more honorable to earn our lives than to sit back and inherit the benefits of others who have done it for us. what really gets me are the grunts out in the field that actually believe that America The Beautiful is a true idea. Really, America is a selfish nationstate like all nation states, we've been acting on the Smithian notion of enlightened self interest since our inception. there is nothing noble to our world wide pursuits, they all invariablly lead back to lining our pocket books. as a soldier, i will at least be honest enough to see this, as an officer- i will be in a position to minimalize the wanton destruction, if not divert it entirely. change, comes not from revolution- look at the french, they still don't have a worthwhile government or governing ethos- they've funded and shipped arms to just about everyone of their former african colonies during their civil wars. rather change comes from evolution, from within. instead of despising the armed forces, we have to embrace it and bring it back into the fold of the people. when voter turn out is so low, and faith in the government wanes generally, can we really afford to disengage ourselves from service? looking upon history, we may use the romans as an example, the alienation of the armed forces from the Senate under the centralization of rule under one consul- soon to be emperor is what lead to the empire and the eventual downfall of the republic and later the empire. the left wing will not agree with me, and they will seek to use protest to affect change, protest after the vietnam war with an already disaffected public leads not to an enlightened acceptance of your mores, rather it leads to public condemnation of your mob action (WTO protests, Davos protests, etc. ). the people on the right would simply want to continue to rape the world. in the center are guys like me who really want to make a difference but get crapped on because we cannot make either sides happy.

dudes, look, we are disliked not because we're americans, but because we're billigerant about it. the state of union address did two things, it set back the move towards the left in Iran- they want to be accepted in the world community again and the moderates are already having a hard time dealing with the religious right hardliners without us using a WWII analogy to put back years of progress. the second thing it did was put back years the dialogue between north and south korea. fellas, we do not have a thinking leader, the only voice of moderation on the whole Bush pseudo administration is Colin Powell, and he is drowned out by the war hawks like Condi Rice and Rumsfield.

we are not the world's police, nobody asked us, in truth we are a global empire, militarially and economically. because we have created this role for ourselves, we need to be agents of progress not deprivation. To the modern Romans, I only ask that we be cautious of the rise of the executive powers that be, that we give the power back to the Senate and the people. As a Soldier of this new republic, I want to serve the idea of The People, not the lies that we are fed.

There is only one dominant species on our rock, humans, and only one habitable planet in our system, Earth. Lets start behaving sentient.
 
Re: Weird G4 iMacs, the US, etc...

Originally posted by Kethoticus
Well, I for one am a proud American and like to think that I'd give my life for this country and its citizens if ever called to. But that doesn't mean that I believe everything this country does is right.

The US has pushed its weight around and made enemies, and I fully understand the international community's problems with us. The greenhouse gas issue, the recent incident with China and our spy plane, etc., all understandably give many out there the impression that we're a nation who doesn't give a damn about anyone but ourselves, that we snub our noses at the rest of the world. And we have.

But none of this justifies the murder of nearly 3,000 civilians. We're at war, where we should be. And I hope that we mercilessly crush our enemies. Watching the miles-long pillar of smoke emanate from what used to be two 107-floor skyscrapers, all from the roof of your apartment does that to you.

The US has given me a good life. And until recently, I lived in the best city in the world, NY. And like it or not, for all the claims of American ignorance, we are at the forefront of computer electronics innovation. Like the Europeans and Asians rule the automobile industry, we rule the computer industry. And I'm sure no one's forgotten that our favorite computer company is based in this great nation. But like this great nation, it is imperfect and sometimes snubs its nose at others. Apple got spanked last year and Steve became more humble. We got spanked--if you want to call it that--a few months ago, and we have been humbled. We now know that we are not immune to getting a bloody nose. This has served as a massive wake-up call, and I think/hope that in the long run, it will make us a better country.

President Bush is already talking about fuel cells and limiting oil usage. Now for whatever his reasons, this is a good thing. He's realized his/our need for friends, to which the NATO patrols over our skies attest. Hopefully this trend will continue, and we'll be even a better country than we were before 9/11. But either way, this is my nation and because it is, I will criticize it when it does badly in an effort to make it better. And I will defend it when someone attacks (verbally or militarily) because it provides me with freedom as well as good living standards.

And let's not forget that if it wasn't for America, there might not even be an iMac. Now if only America could pump out a desktop G5...
Click to expand...


America was right to do something about afghanistan, but did they acknowledge that it was their own fault in the first place for causing it?...no.
Did they acknowledge that they employed bin ladin in the first place?...no.
Do they acknowledge that the extremist militant islamic groups' hatred of america was partly their own doing???...no.
And you can say this after its americas own fault for the situation they are in.
"And I hope that we mercilessly crush our enemies."

America creates the problem. America looks for sympathy. America then blows up a country including innocent civilians. America doesnt aknowledge that they caused the problem in the first place and then tries to act as the world police, attempting to be the hero in their "war against terrorism".
America created the problem of terrorism, because of americas blunders thousands of lives were lost in both NY and afgahnistan (one of the poorest countries in the world). America doesnt even apologise.

During all this america isnt realising that they are making the world even more pissed off in the way that they had done before now. They arent even learning from their mistake, Surely this american arrogance cant hide the mistakes they have made?

America caused the problem, and innocent people are getting hurt while america tries to fix it. when they "mercilessly crush their enemies" they are hurting people that dont deserve to be hurt. Instead of hurting these people they could just learn from their mistakes in the first place, but instead they carry on with this arrogance, and bomb innocent people in one of the poorest countries in the world.



Gigawank:

Thats a really nice way to try and weasel out of the situation..... were have i heard that before....hmmmm..... oh yes, thats right, its exactly like somehting the ubergimp john123 would say. Just give up ****head, you lost the argument, we all proved to you your a wanker with stupid ideas.

"The only point of the post was humor"
Take a hint ****head, it werent ****ing funny. The only joke here is you. Go and **** off. You are a worthless prick. Go away, nobody wants you, ****ing ****.
 
Marines?, good for you tadpole. Its good to get out there and learn about the world. I decided to travel, and i learnt a hell of alot from it. And i will do it again next year too.

Oh, and yeah to some extent america rules the computer industry. But did you know that most quality people in computing actually come from india?
Hence, sun microsystems i suppose.
 
india

this is true, spikey. a lot of tech support is actually routed through india. when you call for a computer related problem, you generally don't know where it is being picked up, the tech support outlets employ language training so its employees can actually mimick your flat yet comforting midwestern accent or the southern drawl. they have an extremely educated work force there and we import a lot of engineers from their best universities.

as far as computer leadership is concerned, the Japanese (NEC consortia) were early adapters of vector computing on the desktop before Apple even made a big deal about it with Altivec. Also the new EU fiber back bone is amazing, it links together the least developed EU to the most developed EU members. Transmission rates are from T3 to at least OC-12, if not higher.

Also, the two best things we have in computing in this country are our research universities- a lot of the talent there are raided from international sources- two years ago we got a couple of Fields Medal mathematicians from U Moscow for the UofC, privately funded basic research from IBM and quality products from IBm and SUN. It used to be that Digital Electronics was a big player with their Alpha processors, but Compaq is canning the whole Alpha line for Intel processors. What I would like to see is Apple buying up the loose Alpha engineers before Intel picks them all up, and custom build a 64bit workstation class cpu. Alpha is arguably the best marketed cpu out there, its SpecINTs are typically off the charts. What makes the AMD chipsets so fast and competitive for slower mhz than intel is the fact that they're based on the EV-6/7 protocols from Alpha.

Imagine a Mac with a quad Alpha configuration with 4 to 8 megs of L2 full speed Cache each proc, 8 gigs of ECC DDR, a raid array of Fiber arbitrated loop SCSI HD's, etc. etc. all for under 6 grand. Suddenly, IBM's RS/6000 and the Sun Blade 1000 look impractical for their costs. Apple can do this, they have the tech bawls, but I wonder if marketting has the talent. Another thing- put the Aqua code on GPL, give it to the talented masses to tune and prune. If Apple can produce fast workstations of truly Pro specs with a truly open OS that conforms to true Open Software Foundation Unix standards, we would have the beginning of a insurrection. SGI is weakening, SUN and IBM are pulling down the high end, HP is holding its own. Come on Apple, you know you want to take SGI's place in the graphics industry, you know you want to take market shares away from Sun and IBM, or better yet, work with them to ensure that Intel and HP never make it again. There's enough juice in the market for three big players, come on Apple step up to the plate! You know you want higher margins than the home market or bush league graphics!

JUST DO IT, APPLE!!!! Steve Jobs, if you're out there, dude, show how manly you are and build us a huge freaking machine that is balls out fast, balls out packed with mad fast workstation graphics, balls out sexy and simply ballsy! Dump Motorola, pick up Alpha, and let AMD and IBM fab the babies for you. unix software can just be recompiled, so you won't be hit too hard if you suddenly have an uber proline. Forget G5, dream bigger dreams.
 
Thats a really nice way to try and weasel out of the situation..... were have i heard that before....hmmmm..... oh yes, thats right, its exactly like somehting the ubergimp john123 would say. Just give up ****head, you lost the argument, we all proved to you your a wanker with stupid ideas.

"The only point of the post was humor"
Take a hint ****head, it werent ****ing funny. The only joke here is you. Go and **** off. You are a worthless prick. Go away, nobody wants you, ****ing ****.
Click to expand...

I am just curious, what ideas did I present? What argument did I engage in? I find, at the very least, humor in your **** riddled replies indicating your capacity for expressing yourself.

As for America deserving what happened, you are a stupid mother fu(ker for thinking that. How the he|| can you say that? You sack of sh|t. Not a single person killed by those bastards made a single policy decision that caused them to ever deserve what happened. So kindly fu(k off you degenerate piece of sh|t! I hope you choke on your own vomit next time you're out pubbing.
 
a-stan

I read a credible report that the US (cia) was in 6 monthes before the Soviets.
another Quiet american story.
also Day of Deceit proves Roosevelt knew about the threat to Pearl Harbour.
It is also very interesting if you are into codes and radio. and spooks.
 
Originally posted by GigaWire


I am just curious, what ideas did I present? What argument did I engage in? I find, at the very least, humor in your **** riddled replies indicating your capacity for expressing yourself.

As for America deserving what happened, you are a stupid mother fu(ker for thinking that. How the he|| can you say that? You sack of sh|t. Not a single person killed by those bastards made a single policy decision that caused them to ever deserve what happened. So kindly fu(k off you degenerate piece of sh|t! I hope you choke on your own vomit next time you're out pubbing.
Click to expand...


What argument did u engage in???
you are a little blind ****, that or you are trying to ease yourself out of the pit of bull**** you landed yourself in.
What??? dont you see what argument you are involved in what??? are you blind what??? do you like getting beaten to **** on these forums what??? if you have any ****ing sense ****head then you will just give up spouting out the useless crap you call intelligent debate, you are ****, scum, crap a waste of a human life. What??? dont you understand what i am saying ****head? You know you are in this argument, you know you have already lost it ****head, SO PLEASE EVERY1 HERE AND SHUT THE **** UP.

America deserving what had happened to them???

YOU LITTLE ****ING PRICK, DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING??? YOU ARE TOO CAUGHT UP IN TRYING TO BEAT ME IN THIS ARGUMENT YOU HAVE TO BREAK WHAT I SAY.
DID I SAY AMERICA DESERVED IT??? NO.
DID I IMPLY AMERICA DESERVED IT??? NO.
DID I IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE SUGGEST THAT AMERICA DESERVED IT??? NO.
IF YOU WOULD BOTHER TO EVEN READ ANYBODY ELSES ****ING THREADS THEN YOU WOULD REALISE THAT
A) YOU ARE A NOB
B) I WAS SAYING THAT AMERICA BROUGHT THE MAJORITY OF IT ONTO THEMSELVES.

LISTEN!!!! NOT AMERICA DESERVED IT
LISTEN!!! AMERICA BROUGHT IT ONTO THEMSELVES.

DO YOU STILL NOT UNDERSTAND ****HEAD.

I WILL REPEAT IT FOR THOSE HARD OF UNDERSTANDING.
LISTEN!!! AMERICA BROUGHT IT ONTO THEMSELVES.


SO GO AND READ MY THREADS BEFORE YOU AND YOUR SILLY LITTLE AMERICAN ARROGANCE MAKES UP BULL**** ABOUT ME HATING AMERICA. YOU AND YOUR PATRIOTIC: "I PLEDGE ALEIGANCE TO THE FLAG", ATTITUDE IS EXACTLY WHAT CAUSED THE SITUATION WE ARE DEBATING YOU BLIND LITTLE ****.

GO AND **** OFF WITH YOUR ****ING DUMBASS ARROGANT MIDDLEAMERICA IDEAS AND REALISE THAT YOU LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT IS SO ARROGANT IT CAN KILL INOCCENT LIVES AND NOT APOLOGISE FOR THE SITUATION IT CAUSED.
YOU ARE SCUM.

COME ON THEN GIGA****HEAD, GIVE ME ANY PART OF WHAT I HAVE SAID THAT SAYS AMERICA DESERVED IT. COME ON THEN???

INSTEAD OF THINKING OF THOSE INNOCENT AFGHANISTANIS AND NEWYORKERS THAT HAVE DIED, AND ADMIT THAT AMERICA WAS TO BLAME YOU ARE TOO ****ING FIXATED ON THINKING THAT AMERICA CAN DO NO WRONG IN THIS.
NEWSFLASH ****HEAD: YOUR PRECIOUS ****ING COUNTRY HAS KILLED OVER 3000 LIVES, AND IT CANT APOLOGISE FOR IT.

GO ON GIGATWAT, NAME ME A ****ING THING I HAVE SAID THAT SAYS AMERICA HAS DESERVED IT.

YOUR THE ONE THAT WILL "KINDLY **** OFF", YOU ARROGANT SACK OF CRAP. GO ON YOU RETARDED PIT OF CUM.
GO ON ****HEAD **** OFF, YOU KNOW NOTHING, YOU ARE NOT WELCOME, YOU ARE A ****ING ****HEAD. EVERY1 HERE HAS SAID THAT, CANT YOU TAKE THE FACT THAT SOMEONE LESE IS RIGHT OTHER THAN YOU, ****ING ARROGANT WANKER.

TAKE A HINT: **** OFF.
 
Cant you take it gigawire???
someone is more intelligent than you, well, huh???
cant you take it that i have taken you apart on this thread???
you dont have a leg to stand on ****head, all that is left of you in this debate is your ****ed up carcass.

So go on then ****head, quote me ****head, give me some evidence of the bull**** you spout out, go on then ****head, you have nothing left to bull**** about on this thread,
Go on then, where did i say america deserved it?

Go on ****head, you lost this 5 posts ago, you really think you can lift your corpse out of the hole your digging?

Go on then ****head, prove you ignorance to us all, once and for all.
 
Wise Old Asian Man

This thread is beginning to remind me of something a wise old Asian man once told me: "This argument like special olympics--no matter who win, everbody still retarded."
 
It is obviously true normally the CIA knows about most incidents before they really happen, unfortunately I bet they normally use those kind of things to promote a president's fame.

*shrug* Ever read a book called The Brethen? The national security maniger lets some terrorism happen so that the president they're sponsoring can look better.

sure, it's a mean thought, but it could happen. There are a few things most people don't look at:

1. Why didn't they scramble to ground all planes and such in the US, protect the groundspace when the first plane hit... Cia should have known just by the threat.

2. How could the planes have been off course for so long without anyone noticing, nor caring in the first place? Something was fishy.

3. Okay, just had to put 3 in.

Okay, honestly, I don't know, I don't really care to find out, but after reading a book it gets you wondering.

Perhaps I'm wrong, I just think of way too many things that went wrong.

And.... If the FCC knew about the other plane (radio controllers) being off course, why didn't they try stopping it right there before the second building got hit?

Do you know how many people in NY are going to get cancer now because all that damned asbestos and ashes in the air?!

I could ramble on and on about the disaster, but I have other thoughts, one of them how great the US is, and on the other hand, how horrible it is as well!

Here in the United States you have 3 main classes, the poor, the middle class, and the rich. You have opportunity to get rich quick, you can marry someone rich, and you can marry anyone you want.

In many foreign countries you're either rich or poor. The rich people make their own rules, play around with the government, and screw the poor out of every chance they get.

Also in many other countries you don't have any backup (wellfare, social security, etc, etc), to save you from total poverty. Yes, I agree it isn't much, but if you're starving in most other countries, too bad.

But I also have to admit, the US is one of the worst as well, the political system is currupt (I strongly believe bush wouldn't be president if he hadn't CHEATED!!!!!!), the education system is a failing disaster (look who's in power.. principals of most schools, treasurers, all the scandals, all the substandard buildings, all the teachers who don't even teach)

I could go on and on, but there's still a point to be made, and that's that no country is perfect.

Here in the US we also have pollution standards, but not a single factory seems to exist in the US anymore, oops.

But there are some factories, and those that exist have low pollution, whereas the other foreign countries are controlled by the rich, who can do whatever the hell they want.

But we still have our laws, thanks to them, and some good law control, we have the safest place in the world to drive, you can still, almost, walk in the streets at any time, and everyone can have a place to live, if they try.

It's all a catch 22, but honestly, normally the US and Canada get on the lucky side.

Canada, though, is probably (not sure), even better, since they rarely seem to have problems.

However, many countires get terrorism, all the time, the US is not alone. *shrug*

My point is made, I hope 🙂
 
I concede defeat to the ever brilliant spanky. His use of ****ING english far exceeds any ability I could ever hope to aspire to. His arguments, so air tight, you'd think them to've been created in a vacuum. His logic, his reasoning, light years beyond any man woman or child alive this day. His contradictory nature so captivating its ironic. Spank, here's to you pal!!! You're the winner, and if i could, why I'd take you out and buy you a fresh baked cookie!!!!


😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
 
Oh, shut up.

Close this post. It's so over and unwinable and tired and childish and yawn inducing.😱 🙄
 
Intelligence Failures

No, this isn't about this forum. It's about what the US gov't's calling the 9/11 attacks. But I have to admit that I have, too, thought about the possibility that we actually let it happen. We received several warnings from other countries that such an attack was being planned. The CIA ignored them all. Now that's either a deliberate lowering of guard or utter arrogance. In the latter case, we were humbled for sure. In the former case, I'd probably wind up becoming as anti-American as they come, being betrayed by my own government.

The US did admit to some things, however. Not many, but some. We have admitted to training bin Laden in the first place and making him what he is today. We also admitted to leaving some countries in the dust apparently after making some promises to help them or something. Not sure of the precise details.

But I do see that we've supported corrupt regimes overseas, like the Shah of Iran. We make a mockery of smaller, less industrialized societies at environmental summits. I'm fully in support of our support of Israel, but that also is yet another reason for our having ME enemies. Too bad for that.

As for killing many innocents in Afghanistan, I'm not sure what you mean. I do know that we've hit some innocents over there, but none of them--according to our news media anyway--was deliberate. Imperfect intelligence or technology--or both--caused those. But the way I see it, that's war. It sucks. Innocent people die. Innocents died on our soil. But at least our killing of innocent Afghan civilians was neither as deliberate, nor as numerous. And one good thing coming out of this is that hopefully (and they have many hurdles to overcome), Afghanistan will have a modernized society there before too long.

Also, while I do believe that we are at some fault for our current quandry, I also believe that we have no choice now but to fight. These people have said that they will not rest until America is gone. Some of them want to establish a totalitarian, global Islamic society. We MUST win this war. But we also must reevaluate some of our foreign policies, particularly in how we push our weight around when it is completely unnecessary or unjustified. For crying out loud, I heard a report that during our Kosovo bombings, we had poisonous plutonium in our missiles. Why was that necessary? All we've succeeded in doing was poisoning the water supply to something like 5,000 people over there.

But unfortunately, as someone pointed out, all countries do this to some degree or another. People do this to each other in their homes for goodness' sake. It's an unfortunate aspect of human nature. But considering the weapons available today and how easy it is to deliver them, it's like everyone in the house now has an oozie (or however you spell it). We need to be more sensitive and more mindful of just how we're affecting others, not just for the immediate term, but for the long term. The country we step on today may become our super-power enemy in the next generation.

Whatever... here's to a fair-minded US, truly benign in nature and future-minded in all its policy-making--but mean as a mother bear who lost her cubs when we need to be.
 
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