Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
It's not regression testing because the Western Digital software did not change.

----------



You have absolutely no way of knowing what caused the bug, therefore you have absolutely no way of knowing it is Apple's fault.

It would be a regression test to find out if Apple OS update broke anything. It requires a full blown regression test.

How do we know it is Apple fault. 10.8 no issue. Update to 10.9 it is broken.... Only change was Apple. Safe to say it is Apples fault. Remember there is generally a long list of software Apple breaks on update....
 
How do we know it is Apple fault. 10.8 no issue. Update to 10.9 it is broken.... Only change was Apple. Safe to say it is Apples fault.

Rubbish. Western Digital could have been doing something hacky. They could have been exploiting some sort of bug in Apple code which has since been corrected. They could have been using some API which had been deprecated for ages and only just actually been removed. There are any number of reasons which could mean WD is blameworthy even though Apple released the updated OS.

According to an earlier poster, do you know the last time this WD software broke? When Lion was released. Do you know why? Because it still relied on Rosetta for god's sake. Yes, that's right, 5 years after the move to Intel, their most recent software still hadn't been completely ported from PPC.

So you tell me (since you feel fit to lecture me on development lifecycles) Is FIVE years long enough?

Western Digital is a company which has:
1. Removed all SATA interfaces from 2.5" external drives, completely screwing customers over if their $1 USB board dies.
2. Poorly maintains software for hard drives which is completely unnecessary anyways as the 3 major OS you are likely to plug these drives into have the software facilities to manage just fine without it.
3. In my experience they have a terrible rate of failure. My experience being that for the past 5 years i've worked for a cloud hosting provider with about 1,500 servers and SANs having anywhere from 2 to 24 drives each.

I can provide you with a long list of indie developers who did get manage to get apps running on Mavericks (and are larger software projects) in "only" four months and without the resources of the worlds largest harddrive manufacturer.

----------

It would be a regression test to find out if Apple OS update broke anything. It requires a full blown regression test.

It's not regression testing. A piece of software can't have regressed if it hasn't changed.

They are testing for a new OS platform.
 
Last edited:
WD SmartWare

OK I read the WD email I received today which said, "Remove the SmartWare app" I was so afraid of these 2 files that I put them in the trash. WD never described how you go about doing that, like maybe "open the app and find the "uninstall" file. I never opened the app, I just dumped the two files into the trash, then deleted them from the trash.
Now I fear that all these files are still on my MB Pro, running OS X 7 (Mavericks). Now what do I do? I am in a mess.
Incidently, I have not done any backups since I downloaded Mavericks. I have been on vacation, and have not done a backup for 31 days. YES, I am bad.
Please offer any assistance you can?
 
Rubbish. Western Digital could have been doing something hacky. They could have been exploiting some sort of bug in Apple code which has since been corrected. They could have been using some API which had been deprecated for ages and only just actually been removed. There are any number of reasons which could mean WD is blameworthy even though Apple released the updated OS.

According to an earlier poster, do you know the last time this WD software broke? When Lion was released. Do you know why? Because it still relied on Rosetta for god's sake. Yes, that's right, 5 years after the move to Intel, their most recent software still hadn't been completely ported from PPC.

So you tell me (since you feel fit to lecture me on development lifecycles) Is FIVE years long enough?

Yeah you still are not helping your case. You are like the standard person. ZERO clue about software development and never worked in the real world.

One of the big rules of software development is IF IT ISN't BROKEN DON"T MESS WITH IT.

As for Rosetta sorry I put that blame 100% on Apple issue. Apple treats developers like crap. Rossetta needed at minimum of 1 year warning that they were going to stop supporting it. Warning devs got, few months. Not enough time to go threw and fix the code and do a full regression test.

If Apple gave enough warning it would be one thing but Apple gave no warning and no deadline.

Also you failed to address the part that Apple has a history of breaking Apps across multiple vendors every time. If it was just WD it would be one thing but it is Apple time and time again. So until proven other wise this is Apple. End of the day Apple treats devs pretty poorly.

----------

It's not regression testing. A piece of software can't have regressed if it hasn't changed.

They are testing for a new OS platform.

In terms of work it would be the exact same. The difference between testing for a new OS regression and new peice of software. EXACTLY THE SAME. For all intensive purposes it would be a full blown regression test.
Made worse it it would just be a full blown regression test to find issues with the OS.

Heck if anything it would be forcing a product to be released mid way threw a cycling that is still in development. This means hiding features and commenting out code just for a release. Pain in the rear and often times leads to issues down the road as now you have done an update with unrelease features that are just hidden from the user. iOS 7 did that to where I work. It forced us to do an early app release just to get it in a workable state. Not ported but in a WORKING state. Mad dash to hide features not ready and not really supported.

Yeah never good and not something one likes to early but oh You know how professional development works......
 
I'll never understand why HD companies bother to make this garbage software.

It costs them money to develop and deploy. It confuses customers. It requires tech support calls. And when something like this incompatibility comes along, it makes everyone look bad.

It's like a restaurant that offers a free table side robot that will cut diner's food and feed it to them automatically. Only, the robots keep going haywire and stabbing everyone in the eye.

We don't need feeding robots, and we don't need Family Fun Keeper Plus, Coffee Mug Creator Pro, or Super One Touch Backup Corrupter Express software.

EVER.
 
WD or Apple

I am a photographer. I use an Apple iMac and WD 2 TD raid 1 HDD. I had no idea that the software that comes with Hard Drives is poor. Or did Apple not catch this huge (for me) problem? But these two giant companies should test this stuff before it is released. I lost a ton of photography. I am steaming mad. I know when I call tomorrow, I am going to get the total runaround. BTW, as a registered owner, I got the warning directly from WD today a week after I lost the data. Do I have any recourse? Did I mention that I am steaming mad. Can anyone suggest anything to help? :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
 
Yeah you still are not helping your case. You are like the standard person. ZERO clue about software development and never worked in the real world.

What's your background? I have 5 years as a linux/BSD sysadmin, 2 years as a project manager and 2 years as an operations manager for a cloud hosting provider with approximately 1500 physical servers (maybe 10000 virtualised). I have a degree in comp sci (major in software development) and am currently finishing a masters in comp (security).

So rather than attack me (since you know nothing about me), what exactly did you find incorrect about my previous statement? Here it is again:

Western Digital could have been doing something hacky. They could have been exploiting some sort of bug in Apple code which has since been corrected. They could have been using some API which had been deprecated for ages and only just actually been removed. There are any number of reasons which could mean WD is blameworthy even though Apple released the updated OS.

Anyways, awfully convenient you joined these forums a few days ago. Have fun with your astroturfing.
 
I am a photographer. I use an Apple iMac and WD 2 TD raid 1 HDD. I had no idea that the software that comes with Hard Drives is poor. Or did Apple not catch this huge (for me) problem? But these two giant companies should test this stuff before it is released. I lost a ton of photography. I am steaming mad. I know when I call tomorrow, I am going to get the total runaround. BTW, as a registered owner, I got the warning directly from WD today a week after I lost the data. Do I have any recourse? Did I mention that I am steaming mad. Can anyone suggest anything to help? :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

There are a number of disk recovery applications, it appears this issue may be with a corrupted but recoverable file system. If that's the case, you may be able to recover your lost data. The second point would be this: Backup! You are a professional photographer, you should be maintaining backups!

I would like to point out something here though, Nice as many aspects of Macs are, the HSF+ Journal file system can't match Microsoft's NTFS system for removable drives. NTFS was designed to handle sudden removal, no notification writes/failures gracefully, and HFS+ still doesn't. Try it. Walk up to a windows machine, plug in an NTFS formated thumb drive, start writing a file to it, and yank it out midway, then plug it back in after a minute or so. See that? The file system on the drive is fine. Your file might not have written, but the file system itself and all the other files are fine - with a no notice, mid-write removal. Apple really needs to step up to that, the business of having to "eject" things from the system before disconnecting them is really obsolete, and realistically dangerous. And this extends to other bus type devices than drives.
 
There are a number of disk recovery applications, it appears this issue may be with a corrupted but recoverable file system. If that's the case, you may be able to recover your lost data. The second point would be this: Backup! You are a professional photographer, you should be maintaining backups!

I would like to point out something here though, Nice as many aspects of Macs are, the HSF+ Journal file system can't match Microsoft's NTFS system for removable drives. NTFS was designed to handle sudden removal, no notification writes/failures gracefully, and HFS+ still doesn't. Try it. Walk up to a windows machine, plug in an NTFS formated thumb drive, start writing a file to it, and yank it out midway, then plug it back in after a minute or so. See that? The file system on the drive is fine. Your file might not have written, but the file system itself and all the other files are fine - with a no notice, mid-write removal. Apple really needs to step up to that, the business of having to "eject" things from the system before disconnecting them is really obsolete, and realistically dangerous. And this extends to other bus type devices than drives.

Isn't this the point of journaling with HFS+?
 
Backup your backups

Mallwitt, thank you for your response. I am actually a health care practitioner that uses a lot of photography to document patient presentation, treatment progress and results, as well as routine family occasions. This is a terrific way to truly and accurately document patient care. On that 2 TB WD raid 1 hard drive I had 9 years of photographs. I did, fortunately, have a backup of this data at a separate physical location, but it is 3 months old. When I lost the data on the WD HDD I thought that I had somehow messed up the Mavericks installation. Both the Apple finder and the WD software indicated that the drive was fine but empty. That is when I called WD, who said oh well, to bad. I wish they had suggested that it might just be the file system. So I used the 3 month old backup to restore the WD Raid drive. This obviously overwrote the file system and the entire drive. So I made it impossible to restore the latest 3 months of data. I did not realize that it may have just been the file system on the drive that was corrupted. "A little knowledge is dangerous." Fortunately, I am way better at healthcare than IT. With all the millions of Macs and WD external raid drives, it seems like it took a long time to determine this problem existed.I guess the remarkable glow of Apple success got the better of me. My bad.
 
According to an earlier poster, do you know the last time this WD software broke? When Lion was released. Do you know why? Because it still relied on Rosetta for god's sake. Yes, that's right, 5 years after the move to Intel, their most recent software still hadn't been completely ported from PPC.

So you tell me (since you feel fit to lecture me on development lifecycles) Is FIVE years long enough?


Before you get too outraged...

2005: Final Cut Studio (FCP 5, DVDSP4, Motion2, Compressor2, Livetype2, Soundtrack Pro.

2007: Final Cut Studio 2 (FCP 6, DVDSP 4, Motion3, LiveType 2, Soundtrack Pro 2, Color, Compressor 3)

2009: Final Cut Studio 3 (FCP 7, DVDSP 4, Motion 4, Soundtrack Pro 3, Color 1.5, Compressor 3.5)

Apple continued to sell Final Cut Studio 2 and 3 (For $1500) after the release of Lion. FCP Studio 2 could still be purchased well into 2013 by contacting Apple by phone - even though it can only be installed on Pre-Lion computers.

Apple did not introduce FCX until 2011 - 6 years after the move to Intel - that's 19 professional Applications, made by Apple all with PPC installers.

Is SIX years not long enough?
 
I guess I'm glad that I've never, ever, used HDD manufacturer software before. I've always let the OS (OS X and Windows) manage the drives.

I have always wondered why drive manufacturers even bother including any software as those utilities are basically redundant.

----------

Wow MR. congrats on the worlds most sensationalist headline.

You think repeating verbatim what WD stated in their email to customers is sensationalizing?
 
No problems with my two Firewire WD drives here. They have to be connected through a hub (Moshi) otherwise the iMac will not mount them but that's how it has been from the start with them. Maybe anyone having issues now could try connecting their drives through a hub to fix their issues.
 
I'm on Mavericks with 3 WD external drives with SmartWare installed and they are all working fine at the moment.

I don't want to use SmartWare but my drives don't appear on my Mac unless it's installed.
 
I'm kind of confused by those who seem to think that this is Apple's fault. Third party software houses write their products to work on Apple's, not the other way round.

I'm confused by people thinking they know either way.
It might be Apples fault or it might not. The chance anyone posting here knows one way or the other is pretty low.
 
Isn't this the point of journaling with HFS+?

Well it should be, yes. But the OSX is still never happy when I remove something without ejecting it. The whole point of USB is minimal configuration, and hot docking. There is no good reason that HFS+ with journaling should throw a fit because that IS why you would journal. I don't understand it myself, but I suspect the difference may lie in how the journaling is committed to the FAT. If it's done after the write, there shouldn't be problems, but if it's done before...
As I understand it, NTFS writes new data to the disk, and once the write is confirmed, commits it to the FAT with an updated journal entry, so the worst that happens in a failure - like a sudden device dismount - is that the file(s) are not updated, with no corruption to the FAT. From the fit that HFS+ journaling throws when this happens, I suspect that it is committing FAT updates before verifying the write.

Mallwitt, thank you for your response. ... I guess the remarkable glow of Apple success got the better of me. My bad.

I'm glad you got something out of it, BobK. I was a bit afraid in hindsight that I came off as smarmy about the whole "backups!" thing. I honestly wasn't trying to, but I could see how it might have been taken that way.

That said, don't beat yourself up too badly for being a victim of excellent products. Not only are Macs very reliable and successful because of it, Proper backup setup is HARD! I do private consulting for a number of small businesses and you are a paragon by comparison to some with your foresight use RAID and have an offsite backup! The great thing about RAID is that it's protected from drive failure, unfortunately it is still subject to FileSystem or controller failure, which is actually why I've hesitated over going to RAID myself (though data growth is forcing the issue). But RAID should never be mistaken for backup.

Ideally, a dual drive with a delayed duplication scheme is what I generally recommend. Two drives with a backup schedule that is off by no more than 12 hours, but no more frequent than 6. This insures redundancy for all types of failures, while preserving a window should Bad Things Happen. With your setup, it doesn't seem you did anything worse than let your secondary backups get too far behind. Easy to fix for the future :)
 
I had the same problem. My brand new MacBook Pro laptop with Mavericks crashed and My WD 3TB was gone. Disk Utility said that it can't repair the disk. I've tried 10 times on different MacBooks and the problem was the same. After more times on my other laptop with the previous OSX it actually started to repair. It took over 1 hour and it was successful. Happily the data was still there.
Please fix it asap!
 
Not to mention that many of their external drives mount a partition with crapware to install that you can't get rid of even if you re-partition the drive. You could even take apart the enclosure and put in a new hard disk. The partition mounts from a chip on the circuit board, and the only way to disable it is with some utility that modifies the circuit board firmware.
 
I'll never understand why HD companies bother to make this garbage software.

It costs them money to develop and deploy. It confuses customers. It requires tech support calls. And when something like this incompatibility comes along, it makes everyone look bad.

It's like a restaurant that offers a free table side robot that will cut diner's food and feed it to them automatically. Only, the robots keep going haywire and stabbing everyone in the eye.

We don't need feeding robots, and we don't need Family Fun Keeper Plus, Coffee Mug Creator Pro, or Super One Touch Backup Corrupter Express software.

EVER.


well I generally do not use the manufactures software for any of my drives. First thing I do when a new drive is bought and install is reformat completely blowing everything out.

Now that being said built in software on the OS is limited to what it can do. In WD case it can not do RIAD over USB. That has to be done by the manufacture.
 
I had the same problem. My brand new MacBook Pro laptop with Mavericks crashed and My WD 3TB was gone. Disk Utility said that it can't repair the disk. I've tried 10 times on different MacBooks and the problem was the same. After more times on my other laptop with the previous OSX it actually started to repair. It took over 1 hour and it was successful. Happily the data was still there.
Please fix it asap!



HI!

can you please elaborate on your process??? That would be really helpful as Im trying to get my data back. thanks
 
YAs for Rosetta sorry I put that blame 100% on Apple issue. Apple treats developers like crap. Rossetta needed at minimum of 1 year warning that they were going to stop supporting it. Warning devs got, few months. Not enough time to go threw and fix the code and do a full regression test.

If Apple gave enough warning it would be one thing but Apple gave no warning and no deadline.

Apple gave ample warning that Rosetta was going to go. When Snow Leopard was confirmed to be Intel only (the first DP) it was obvious that anything Rosetta was on borrowed time. The Snow Leopard DPs were in mid 2009, Lion was released in 2011. I make that 2 years warning. The blame was 100% WD's

Now on the other hand, we don't know what is causing the issue on the WD software.

As has been stated it could be using a haxi or deprecated APIs that were finally removed. Apple do give warning about APIs they consider deprecated and will not support hacks.

However it could equally be an unintended consequence of a change in Mavericks, in which case the blame is down to Apple.

BTW I do understand development cycles. I have been involved with the development and testing of a major release of three corporate GIS systems as well as bug fixes and upgrades to the same systems. Regression testing would've found this error fairly quickly and is a no brainer when there is a new OS involved.
 
Last edited:
Apple gave ample warning that Rosetta was going to go. When Snow Leopard was confirmed to be Intel only (the first DP) it was obvious that anything Rosetta was on borrowed time. The Snow Leopard DPs were in mid 2009, Lion was released in 2011. I make that 2 years warning. The blame was 100% WD's

Now on the other hand, we don't know what is causing the issue on the WD software.

As has been stated it could be using a haxi or deprecated APIs that were finally removed. Apple do give warning about APIs they consider deprecated and will not support hacks.

However it could equally be an unintended consequence of a change in Mavericks, in which case the blame is down to Apple.

BTW I do understand development cycles. I have been involved with the development and testing of a major release of three corporate GIS systems as well as bug fixes and upgrades to the same systems. Regression testing would've found this error fairly quickly and is a no brainer when there is a new OS involved.

Warning is an official announcement saying we will end support on X date. After X date you are on borrowed time.
Deprecated API does not equal warning. Warning = announcement and official hard dates.

SO yes blame sits mostly on Apple followed by Apple has a history of breaking crap.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.