I don't care if the parts are equivalent or not when much faster hardware is available at MUCH cheaper prices from non-apple vendors.*
*talking single processor config only here.
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We've seen the new mini enclosure... thoughts on potential Mac Pro redesign...?
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I don't care if the parts are equivalent or not when much faster hardware is available at MUCH cheaper prices from non-apple vendors.*
*talking single processor config only here.
You love grasping at straws to solidify your love for the brand. That's apparent throughout your posts. That's fine. People are allowed to be fanboys of a product just long as it doesn't blind them to reality and facts. The Mac Pro *is* a workstation class PC. Plain and simple. It's not an Xserve in a different box. It never claimed to be, never pretended to be. You're making that up because you think it's more magical than a PC with another label, or a custom built homemade box. It's just a PC with an OS based on Unix. That may piss of some fanboys who chose to believe Apple makes something more than a workstation class PC, called a MacPro. Linux, Windows and OSX can be installed on it. It's a PC, made by Apple.
I use a Mac Pro, PCs, MBP. I just don't get into the hype and b.s. people try to pump out surrounding products. It' s just another brand of workstation I use to do work. Am I hoping for a sizeable refresh to the Mac Pro line? Yes. Am I willing to pay an arm and a leg compared to other brands of PCs? Probably not at this point.
If Jobs wants to focus on iCrap and leave the pro apps line to fester (already behind Avid 5 and Adobe CS5) and other Mac brands pushed aside just to push more iJunk to iSheep, then have at it. I won't be along for the ride. I'm loyal to my work, not a brand. If I can build a better box, or another company like Boxx can, I don't need Apple. Apple is in a great position selling things people don't always need, but are cool as hell so they *want* them. Apple has great appeal!
What? No. He asked if the Mac Pro's have a better "service record" than other Apple Machines... that means (to me), he's asking if the Mac Pro's run better/longer than other machines - i.e. they stay in service/use. Which should be evident with the horrid iMac quality a sof late.
its only logical that the Mac pro's are longer in use , they are the most expensive Mac's you can buy and always had been ,even in the days of the Power Mac , if you have to spend double what you spend on a for example iMac or 4 times what you spend on a mini , then of course you can expect it to last longer and if it would not then it would be money wasted
A while back, I and my bosses wasted money on G5's that didn't last. Out new intel based new Mac Pros seem to be better so far.
... Because cases and PSUs, in a $2,600 machine, are a huge part of the cost.
You can get an awesome case and PSU for under $200.
I like what Apple did with the first mac pro: it was cheaper than one you could build yourself. Of course I'm biased because I own one.
Today, you can EASILY get a $1,500 home built that's better and faster than a mac pro. This is not an iMac: most mac pro users could build their own.
It's magical?
Seriously though: Once you realize--I mean really realize--that a computer is just a bunch of parts, most of which are not special in any way (and are usually similar in quality), you really get annoyed with brand loyalty.
The difference between the Mac Pro and all other Macs is JUST that it's the only Mac that ignores (or should ignore) form factor.
You pay extra for the portability of the Laptops and the desk-space economization of the Mac Mini or the iMac. However, for the Mac Pro, the only distinguishing characteristic should be PRICE.
Mac Pros use (or should use) STANDARD FORM FACTOR parts, and therefore should be the LOWEST PRICE/PERFORMANCE ratio of the macs, not the highest. They are easy to assemble and use STANDARD parts.
The iMac/Mac Mini have an excuse for being expensive (even though they're not): they use extremely customized parts to fit into their small form factor. The Mac Pro does not. Economics of scale dictate the Mac Pro should be updated more frequently and should be of a higher value (ignoring aesthetics).
IMO, the fact that the Mac Pro isn't being updated and is still using old parts (and thus a worse value) is due to Apples over-customization of the motherboard and case components.
The "New" Mac Pro should have as few custom parts as possible. They should use inexpensive, mass-produced yet high quality components that are already on the market (or at least as much of them as possible). No more gigantic grey case fans, just use a standard 120MM. No more stupid aluminum cages that make it a bitch to swap out the CPU, just an empty box with the mobo screwed to the side-wall and case fans in the back. No more ridiculous [UNRELIABLE] PSU with no label on it, just cut a deal with Thermaltake for an all black 1.5KWatt monster.
Take a standard high-end Intel motherboard, tack on some EFI and design the case around it. Duct tape the thing together and sell it at a reasonable price. You could even stuff it inside a brushed aluminum case with an apple sticker on the side and call it good.
The hilarious part that fanboys don't get is: Apple's parts are lower quality than the consumer computer component market (like stuff out of newegg) that sells for a fraction of the cost. Apple uses SH*T hard drives (Maxtor/hitachi) and SH*T RAM. They use THE WORST DVD burners (Sony). Their video cards are buggy/crappy (Radeon 2600) and outdated. Even their "custom" looking components have mass failure like their PSUs. And by the way, they charge more for it.
It's not entirely their fault. Apple's painted themselves into a corner by making these "sleek" formfactors that require custom parts. The more customized the parts, the smaller the scale of fabrication, and therefore the higher the price to produce and to develop (per unit). It also costs more to engineer (or re-engineer, as they often do), on top of re-certifying everything at every step through the FCC. Their custom cases and PSUs have to be run through the regulators with practically each new revision. I'm suggesting they abandon that model for the Mac Pro and just make an "unsexy" 'PC-style' high-quality, high-value box. It's what pro-sumers really want (high-power/quality, low price), abandons the "Sleekness" that is really extraneous to professionals, and has very little cost to create new revisions.
you did mentioned it "aesthetics " and aesthetics are important thats why people buy Apple products , nobody buys a Mac because of its superior build quality or because of superior parts used
the aesthetics and osx are the main reasons to buy a Mac , and the reason why loads odf people do not build their own hackintosh is simple , first you just cant use any hardware like for example if you would build a linux rig , and not everybody is able to build one and doesn't know anybody who could build a proper hackintosh where everything works , and still limited to specially sourced hardware and installing is osx is also not as easy als for exaple linux or windows ....so they buy the next best ...a mac pro
Apple should go and create a new case with a some standard motherboards to choose from , which would leave the option for people to use any case on the market if they so wish and more driver support for not just only a couple parts would be a plus too
i mean a fully customizable Mac pro so customers had the option , to choose the hardware including processors they really need or want and not only the couple options apple is offering now
the aesthetics and osx are the main reasons to buy a Mac , and the reason why loads odf people do not build their own hackintosh is simple , first you just cant use any hardware like for example if you would build a linux rig , and not everybody is able to build one and doesn't know anybody who could build a proper hackintosh where everything works , and still limited to specially sourced hardware and installing is osx is also not as easy als for exaple linux or windows ....so they buy the next best ...a mac pro
Apple should go and create a new case with a some standard motherboards to choose from , which would leave the option for people to use any case on the market if they so wish and more driver support for not just only a couple parts would be a plus too
i mean a fully customizable Mac pro so customers had the option , to choose the hardware including processors they really need or want and not only the couple options apple is offering now
At the MP level, it's mostly really all about the OS when you get down to it. We're stuck here because of this.
My two cents:
Unless Apple changes the price point of the Mac Pro, here are the things I care about the most when paying the price premium [*] for the machine:
1: Reliability. I am going to have the machine on 24/7 for years on end, and I likely will have it running several virtual machines on it (legacy Windows stuff.) Since this machine will be important as a daily machine, I like having server grade components, motherboards, design, and cooling. This is where Apple has excelled at historically.
2: Expandability. RAM is always needed, especially if you run virtual machines. If using a machine for gaming, being able to drop in a new video card in every couple years allows the machine to continue to run the sequels of Crysis. I tend to keep machines a long time, so I'd rather pay for a Mac Pro and keep it fairly up to date until it is completely obsolete as opposed to buying a new machine every 2-3 years.
3: Ability to use existing stuff. I don't feel like replacing my monitor, mouse, and keyboard unless I feel like it. I can just unplug all my USB devices (iPod, camera, phone, external HDD, etc.), drop the machine in, plug everything into it, and go from there.
4: Computer load. I would saturate an iMac's USB bus with all the USB stuff I have, while a Mac Pro with multiple USB cards (http://www.sonnettech.com/product/allegro_express_usb.html come to mind) can handle my external drives, and have another bus for low speed devices.
[*]: Ironically, if you compare a Mac Pro to a comparable HP or Dell workstation class machine, you find Apple's machine is cheaper by a decent margin.
Unless Apple changes the price point of the Mac Pro, here are the things I care about the most when paying the price premium [*] for the machine:
1: Reliability. I am going to have the machine on 24/7 for years on end, and I likely will have it running several virtual machines on it (legacy Windows stuff.) Since this machine will be important as a daily machine, I like having server grade components, motherboards, design, and cooling. This is where Apple has excelled at historically.
2: Expandability. RAM is always needed, especially if you run virtual machines. If using a machine for gaming, being able to drop in a new video card in every couple years allows the machine to continue to run the sequels of Crysis. I tend to keep machines a long time, so I'd rather pay for a Mac Pro and keep it fairly up to date until it is completely obsolete as opposed to buying a new machine every 2-3 years.
3: Ability to use existing stuff. I don't feel like replacing my monitor, mouse, and keyboard unless I feel like it. I can just unplug all my USB devices (iPod, camera, phone, external HDD, etc.), drop the machine in, plug everything into it, and go from there.
4: Computer load. I would saturate an iMac's USB bus with all the USB stuff I have, while a Mac Pro with multiple USB cards (http://www.sonnettech.com/product/allegro_express_usb.html come to mind) can handle my external drives, and have another bus for low speed devices.
[*]: Ironically, if you compare a Mac Pro to a comparable HP or Dell workstation class machine, you find Apple's machine is cheaper by a decent margin.
Try calling, as you get better pricing over the phone than what's advertised on the web configuration page.
And even the web pricing from Dell was cheaper than Apple for the Quads last I checked.
BTW, when comparing pricing, don't forget to add Apple Care to the MP, as Dell and HP's gear comes with 3yrs of On-Site support (no need to carry the thing into a store for repairs). Go 3rd party for add-ons (i.e. RAM, disks, RAID), as it's noticably cheaper.
Thanks for looking that up. How the hell can a [bad] deal from 450 days ago be better than a current one in the computer industry? That wouldn't make sense.
Ram and disks are a primary cause of failure. Going third party on these makes the onsite support almost useless. To get full value from onsite support, getting drives and ram at the time of purchase almost required. SAS drives from Dell are extremely expensive, but if four of eight fail they bring them onsite same day.
For a MP, the main reason for buying at this point, is that a system is neededd NOW (i.e. new contract obtained, so a new employee is hired, and a system is required).
Another reason, is if a new system is needed, and another vendor's can't be used (i.e. extensive investment in OS X based software, and there's no budget for both training and equivalent software suites under a different OS).
In my experience, Disks yes. But I don't see RAM failing anywhere near the rate of mechanical HDD's. Graphics cards will fail more frequently as well.
But my comment was based on the fact that most of MR's members seem to be paying for their MP's themselves, so budgets are much tighter.
Corporations can plan for (and benefit) from a "One Stop" support source = system vendor, and purchase system upgrades at the time it's ordered. It does make things much easier. But even in the enterprise/corporate environment (corporate funds buy the system), there's still the possiblility that some necessary add-ons may not be offered from the vendor. As they tend to have full time IT staff, it falls on them to support that particular aspect of the system in the event of a hardware failure (i.e. specialty input device).
Someone notify Mac Rumors of this distinction, because the Mac Pro forum is a subset of the "Desktop" forum.
No kidding.
Also, the Macbook and Macbook Pro are not supposed to be used on your lap according to Apple. They are therefore "notebooks" and not "laptops".
http://www.apple.com/support/macbook/care/
"Do not place your MacBook on your lap or other body surface for extended periods of time. "
I don't know why he doesn't want to call the Mac Pro a desktop. Maybe it's something about saying it can't be compared to other "desktops" like the iMac/Mac Mini... I'm not sure what that does for you though. All that does is make the Mac Pro look like a worse value for being overpriced, underspeced, and without a small form-factor to redeem it.
Carbon fiber????????
Or Aluminium chassis with Black Glass side panels..... oh wait, wouldn't that just be like a giant iPhone 4......
Oh forgot Apple are playing the ole eco card. My guess then more of the Aluminium same or maybe just the apple designed cardboard box.
Or Aluminium chassis with Black Glass side panels..... oh wait, wouldn't that just be like a giant iPhone 4......
Oh forgot Apple are playing the ole eco card. My guess then more of the Aluminium same or maybe just the apple designed cardboard box.