Other What can Apple realistically do to increase sales in China?

thermal

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 3, 2009
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Vancouver, Canada
Apple would almost certainly like to increase its iPhone sales in China. What do you think is the most realistic way for this to happen?
 

darkus

macrumors regular
Nov 5, 2007
174
15
Apple would almost certainly like to increase its iPhone sales in China. What do you think is the most realistic way for this to happen?
Who cares.

China has had an overall negative impact on most consumer products. iPhones are so big and there are so many varieties of them (two things totally contradictory to Steve jobs ethos) now because of the Chinese consumer, who are known to be fickle. Everyone who chases money and sells their soul chasing the china market always loses in the long run. Once you sell your soul it's hard to comeback.
 

pika2000

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2007
5,737
4,788
Since it is affecting everybody (including Samsung) other than the local players, I don't think Apple can do much other than trying to grow in other markets and grow their services to gain revenue from existing users. Apple as a brand currently is being challenged in China with nationalism and anti-western sentiment, and without the strength of the brand, Apple's position is not as strong as the local players.

Imo what Apple needs to do is to look harder in other growing markets like the SE Asia region, a region that has been neglected by Apple for a while despite the fanbase of Apple products in the past. Samsung has then taken over the region, followed by the Chinese like Oppo and Xiaomi. It's not too late, but Apple will be facing harder competition than before. Take Singapore for example. During the early iPhone days, Singapore was like an iPhone country where pretty much everybody has an iPhone. But Apple just ignored the market and wouldn't even want to build its Apple store and put transit info on Apple Maps until recently. Samsung then has taken over a significant chunk of the brand mindset and market share of the country. Apple missed a huge opportunity due to their focus in China. Can't blame them though, China was growing at an enormous rate in the past that it was easy to get blindsided.
 

Relentless Power

macrumors Nehalem
Jul 12, 2016
30,751
30,993
Apple would almost certainly like to increase its iPhone sales in China. What do you think is the most realistic way for this to happen?
It’s not just the iPhone slumping in China, it’s China’s commerce altogether that is stagnated. Apple can make all the measures they want, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will directly benefit them. China’s spending is even down for the average consumer, which means they are looking for cheaper alternatives with certain phones, and Apple’s prices don’t reflect that.
 

cnev3

macrumors 6502
Sep 13, 2012
462
50
iPhone doesnt need to dominate sales figures. Macs always had no more than a quarter of the market share of Windows. Hyundai sells more cars than Aston Martin.

If Jobs was alive, he would say that making great products is what matters.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors G3
Jan 17, 2013
8,084
11,927
Wales, United Kingdom
Who cares.

China has had an overall negative impact on most consumer products. iPhones are so big and there are so many varieties of them (two things totally contradictory to Steve jobs ethos) now because of the Chinese consumer, who are known to be fickle. Everyone who chases money and sells their soul chasing the china market always loses in the long run. Once you sell your soul it's hard to comeback.
More than 20% of the worlds population live in mainland China so it’s a significant market to have a share of. It’s not a country any serious global company chooses to ignore and it’s why so many of our products come from there, including the iPhone.
 

maerz001

macrumors 65816
Nov 2, 2010
1,329
979
Block more VPN als they already do, give the komunist party control over the app store, do a Hermes and YSL iPhone edition
 

bpeeps

macrumors 68040
May 6, 2011
3,034
2,588
Offer higher specs at competitive prices but they are never going to do that in a month of Sunday’s.
Nobody cares about specs. China is the king of knock-offs for a reason. The Chinese love big phones and low prices. That's it.
 

meme1255

macrumors 6502a
Jul 15, 2012
701
521
Czech Republic
1) Ask the US Government for hidden subsidies (as Chinese manufactures do have them)
2) Give its employees the same salaries they are given in China.
3) Lower its margins
 

JPack

macrumors 601
Mar 27, 2017
4,896
7,163
Offer higher specs at competitive prices but they are never going to do that in a month of Sunday’s.
Correct answer.

It's the same reason why Huawei and Samsung put more RAM in the Asia market versions of their phones. Asian consumers compare specs first.

Look at why the Mate 20 Pro sells so well. It gives you 6.4" OLED, Face ID, and 3 rear cameras for the price of the iPhone XR. Unlike the U.S. market, Chinese consumers don't care about Steve Jobs and Apple's history. They care about specs and value.
 

ftaok

macrumors 603
Jan 23, 2002
6,151
1,169
East Coast
Apple would almost certainly like to increase its iPhone sales in China. What do you think is the most realistic way for this to happen?
What do you mean by "iPhone sales"?

If you're measuring iPhone sales by the number of iPhones sold, then the answer is easy. Lower prices. Hell, if you make them $1 and practically give them away, you'll sell as many as you can make.

However, if your definition of "iPhone sales" means revenues, then they answer is less straightforward. If you want to maximize revenues, you would set pricing such that it satisifies both the supply and demand, but also results in the maximum obtainable revenue, then you've found the magic formula. I'm sure Apple looks at all of this when they set the price.
 

darkus

macrumors regular
Nov 5, 2007
174
15
More than 20% of the worlds population live in mainland China so it’s a significant market to have a share of. It’s not a country any serious global company chooses to ignore and it’s why so many of our products come from there, including the iPhone.
Plenty of companies ignore china. The problem is when the board and shareholders are a strong contingent they will wave the "fiduciary responsibility" to increase profits at all costs flag.

When that happens that's when companies goto ****. They could literally slap an apple logo on a plastic straw and if they could do it at a profit they would do it.

It's happened to so many American and European companies over the last 10 years or so. Everywhere you look consumer products have gone to crap in the chase for Chinese market share which by definition means making a cheaper, lower quality and higher branded product.

It takes a company with a strong leader with a clear vision for not only the product but the long term health of the company. Steve jobs was absolutely that person. I think he knew what mix made a good product and went with it. He made mistakes but got so much right. Either way you had a clear vision.

Right now we just don't have that at Apple. They will do literally anything to make sales in china and have a really quixotic iPhone lineup right now that goes 100% against what Steve jobs vision was. I was always a pc person growing up but it was jobs clear dogged vision which was correct that wig me and millions over. We don't have that so you are essentially just resting on your laurels in the us and gunning for new sales in china.

Terrible strategy.

So my original statement stands. Who cares about china. But we have to wait for new leadership at Apple before that will happen.
 

nviz22

macrumors 603
Jun 24, 2013
5,285
3,063
Correct answer.

It's the same reason why Huawei and Samsung put more RAM in the Asia market versions of their phones. Asian consumers compare specs first.

Look at why the Mate 20 Pro sells so well. It gives you 6.4" OLED, Face ID, and 3 rear cameras for the price of the iPhone XR. Unlike the U.S. market, Chinese consumers don't care about Steve Jobs and Apple's history. They care about specs and value.
I wish more consumers did that. It would make competition greater and cause Apple to be more aggressive in its offerings.
 

JPack

macrumors 601
Mar 27, 2017
4,896
7,163
Plenty of companies ignore china. The problem is when the board and shareholders are a strong contingent they will wave the "fiduciary responsibility" to increase profits at all costs flag.

When that happens that's when companies goto ****. They could literally slap an apple logo on a plastic straw and if they could do it at a profit they would do it.

It's happened to so many American and European companies over the last 10 years or so. Everywhere you look consumer products have gone to crap in the chase for Chinese market share which by definition means making a cheaper, lower quality and higher branded product.

It takes a company with a strong leader with a clear vision for not only the product but the long term health of the company. Steve jobs was absolutely that person. I think he knew what mix made a good product and went with it. He made mistakes but got so much right. Either way you had a clear vision.

Right now we just don't have that at Apple. They will do literally anything to make sales in china and have a really quixotic iPhone lineup right now that goes 100% against what Steve jobs vision was. I was always a pc person growing up but it was jobs clear dogged vision which was correct that wig me and millions over. We don't have that so you are essentially just resting on your laurels in the us and gunning for new sales in china.

Terrible strategy.

So my original statement stands. Who cares about china. But we have to wait for new leadership at Apple before that will happen.
It seems like you’re someone living in the 1980s and completely unfamiliar with current economics.

As an example, in 2017, Mercedes-Benz sold:
  • 375k vehicles in U.S.
  • 610k vehicles in China
Look at any other global luxury brand, whether it’s Range Rover or Bottega or Cartier and you’ll find a similar 2:1 or 3:1 sales ratio. Chinese consumers are willing to pay higher prices for better quality products, period.
[doublepost=1548905182][/doublepost]
I wish more consumers did that. It would make competition greater and cause Apple to be more aggressive in its offerings.
It’s a matter of time before that happens but it’s inevitable. Apple has significant mindshare (rightfully) as the creator of the modern touchscreen smartphone. But Gen X and Y consumers will move up the population pyramid and get replaced by Gen Z. That group didn’t grow up seeing Apple as a groundbreaker and are much more willing to try global smartphone brands as they view smartphone purchases as a commodity.
 
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nviz22

macrumors 603
Jun 24, 2013
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It seems like you’re someone living in the 1980s and completely unfamiliar with current economics.

As an example, in 2017, Mercedes-Benz sold:
  • 375k vehicles in U.S.
  • 610k vehicles in China
Look at any other global luxury brand, whether it’s Range Rover or Bottega or Cartier and you’ll find a similar 2:1 or 3:1 sales ratio. Chinese consumers are willing to pay higher prices for better quality products, period.
[doublepost=1548905182][/doublepost]

It’s a matter of time before that happens but it’s inevitable. Apple has significant mindshare (rightfully) as the creator of the modern touchscreen smartphone. But Gen X and Y consumers will move up the population pyramid and get replaced by Gen Z. That group didn’t grow up seeing Apple as a groundbreaker and are much more willing to try global smartphone brands as they view smartphone purchases as a commodity.
I definitely agree that iPhones are so woven into some countries, such as the US’ culture. But people forget the path forged to get to an iPhone.

Glad to see OnePlus get traction in the US now with their T-Mobile deal. They’re much more cutting edge than Apple is now.
 

darkus

macrumors regular
Nov 5, 2007
174
15
It seems like you’re someone living in the 1980s and completely unfamiliar with current economics.

As an example, in 2017, Mercedes-Benz sold:
  • 375k vehicles in U.S.
  • 610k vehicles in China
Look at any other global luxury brand, whether it’s Range Rover or Bottega or Cartier and you’ll find a similar 2:1 or 3:1 sales ratio. Chinese consumers are willing to pay higher prices for better quality products, period.
[doublepost=1548905182][/doublepost]

It’s a matter of time before that happens but it’s inevitable. Apple has significant mindshare (rightfully) as the creator of the modern touchscreen smartphone. But Gen X and Y consumers will move up the population pyramid and get replaced by Gen Z. That group didn’t grow up seeing Apple as a groundbreaker and are much more willing to try global smartphone brands as they view smartphone purchases as a commodity.
And are you going to be as foolish as to claim that the Mercedes of today is of a higher quality then that of 10 or 20 years ago? The cla and gla alone are farces that are sold on one thing alone, the badge.

Thank you for proving all my points.

Mercedes has made an inferior product in the hunt for sales in china. Luckily Mercedes is smart and continues to make high quality products along side the cheaper made for china products.

When you look at say e or s class sales in the USA and Europe then the numbers are clearly with us. Do you think the Chinese market minded cla or the us/Eu minded s class is the superior product?

But many companies such as Apple haven't been as smart.
 
Last edited:

ilikewhey

macrumors 65816
May 14, 2014
1,223
1,295
nyc upper east
apple lost that status symbol in china, plus nationalism as someone mentioned above due to the current trade war. and their incremental improvements on every release, the speed of the processor is amazing on iphone but 90 percent of chinese only uses weichat or alipay, so if the app is just as fast on a a cheaper android, why would they splurge on the more expensive iphone.

apple could go look at other markets, but what other market is out there? india was a try and fail, apple has already penetrated every market it could short of sub sahara african countries, so unless kenya manage to gain economic miracles and increase their GDP by 1000 percent, i don't think there is much of other markets for apple to go establish.
 

JPack

macrumors 601
Mar 27, 2017
4,896
7,163
And are you going to be as foolish as to claim that the Mercedes of today is of a higher quality then that of 10 or 20 years ago? The cla and gla alone are farces that are sold on one thing alone, the badge.

Thank you for proving all my points.

Mercedes has made an inferior product in the hunt for sales in china. Luckily Mercedes is smart and continues to make high quality products along side the cheaper made for china products.

When you look at say e or s class sales in the USA and Europe then the numbers are clearly with us. Do you think the Chinese market minded cla or the us/Eu minded s class is the superior product?

But many companies such as Apple haven't been as smart.
MB sells the majority of the S-class products in China.

From MB press release: “The Mercedes-Maybach S-Class Saloon, which stands for ultimate exclusivity and quality, is very successful. More than 25,000 units have been delivered since its market launch in early 2015, and more than two thirds of those cars went to customers in China.”

The rest of your post is just pure garbage not worth responding to. The GLA and CLA products were meant for Europe and USA and were introduced in those markets first.
 

darkus

macrumors regular
Nov 5, 2007
174
15
MB sells the majority of the S-class products in China.

From MB press release: “The Mercedes-Maybach S-Class Saloon, which stands for ultimate exclusivity and quality, is very successful. More than 25,000 units have been delivered since its market launch in early 2015, and more than two thirds of those cars went to customers in China.”

The rest of your post is just pure garbage not worth responding to. The GLA and CLA products were meant for Europe and USA and were introduced in those markets first.
The maybach s class is not the same as the s class. Sales figures between the two are not remotely close.

The analogy is you conflating the c63 black series and the regular c63. But maybee to you they are the same I don't know your level of car knowledge.

But you really need to brush up on your facts before starting an argument.

Full disclosure. The auto industry is my industry and I work for a very large car company headquartered in Germany and these sales figures are a major part of my work. I am intimately familiar with s class sales in the USA vs Europe vs Middle East vs China for example.

Try sniffing up another tree.

Or continue trying to win an e-argument and make yourself look dumber then you already do. either option works for me, you are wrong either way.
 

JPack

macrumors 601
Mar 27, 2017
4,896
7,163
The maybach s class is not the same as the s class. Sales figures between the two are not remotely close.

The analogy is you conflating the c63 black series and the regular c63. But maybee to you they are the same I don't know your level of car knowledge.

But you really need to brush up on your facts before starting an argument.

Full disclosure. The auto industry is my industry and I work for a very large car company headquartered in Germany and these sales figures are a major part of my work. I am intimately familiar with s class sales in the USA vs Europe vs Middle East vs China for example.

Try sniffing up another tree.

Or continue trying to win an e-argument and make yourself look dumber then you already do. either option works for me, you are wrong either way.
So many words, yet you don't know a single number or anything relevant.

MB sells 30% of their S-Class in China. More than any other country in the world.

There's a reason why MB premiered their 2018 S-Class facelift in China. And not in New York, Stuttgart, or in the Middle East.

But please keep up with your hand waving arguments. LOL.
[doublepost=1548914320][/doublepost]
apple lost that status symbol in china, plus nationalism as someone mentioned above due to the current trade war. and their incremental improvements on every release, the speed of the processor is amazing on iphone but 90 percent of chinese only uses weichat or alipay, so if the app is just as fast on a a cheaper android, why would they splurge on the more expensive iphone.
Objectively, Apple wins in the processor department and perhaps iOS. But they lose to Huawei in camera quality, display PPI, battery life, charging speed, cellular reception, and biometrics options. The WeChat factor overwhelmingly tips the scale in favor of domestic brands.
 

mrochester

macrumors 68000
Feb 8, 2009
1,893
361
I wish more consumers did that. It would make competition greater and cause Apple to be more aggressive in its offerings.
What benefit would I get if the iPhone suddenly had 6gb of ram vs 3gb? What would I be able to do that I can’t currently do?