What difference does switching from Intel to ARM make for normal users?

[d4z0mg]

In terms of an 'idiots guide to'.. what difference will there be for an every day user when switching from an Intel processor to ARM?
What I mean is that I use my MBP frequently for music production, photo work and every day tasks but I don't really know much about the technical side of what goes on inside my MBP outside of CPU speed, RAM and storage.

How will switching from Intel to ARM affect different software? What possible teething problems are there likely to be when ARM is released? When minimum requirements for software is a certain CPU speed and intel processor, does this mean they wont work with ARM at all and companies will need to completely overhaul their software to work on the new processors?

 

[KPOM]

Expect Apple’s own software to run very well. Third party apps will be the key. We won’t know for sure until after the transition, but the fact that Apple has developed Rosetta 2 and will still run software developed for Intel is encouraging and should make the transition easier. What’s less certain is whether there will be any easy way to run Windows apps, so if you need Windows apps at all for your music production work, then the transition may be more difficult until and unless there is a suitable Mac app.

 

[Thoradin]

For the generic man in the street there will be no difference.
Apple and Microsoft will have working office suites, the web browser will still be there. Even pro apps such as Logic Pro, Final Cut Pro and Photoshop should be up and running without issue by the time the first hardware is released.
I for one am glad someone has the balls to shake up the industry and go all in on ARM. I have been waiting for this for years.

 

[DNichter]

For most people, no difference. For people that have relied on outdated software, they may have some issues.

 

[thisismyusername]

What I mean is that I use my MBP frequently for music production

One, software related, positive difference you might notice is the ability to run iPhone and iPad apps on a Mac. There are a lot of really good music-related apps for those platforms and they tend to be a lot cheaper than their Mac counterparts.

 

[4sallypat]

Switching over to the new Apple Silicon will greatly benefit the user with longer battery life, less heat, and more efficient processing power compared to the Intel based systems.

I remember when Apple switched over from the RISC based PPC processors made by Motorola to the Intel that opened up Intel based apps to run on Macs.

But the Intel based Macs have never been efficient (heat, battery, computing threads) compared to the PPC which was super efficient.

I think Apple Silicon will have some growth pains but overall, Apple will return to RISC based processors.

 

[d4z0mg]

So current software like fl studio and popular vst's are likely to have their stuff working when or soon after ARM is released?

 

[Cayenne1]

I suspect one key difference is the loss of either Bootcamp or VMs (virtual machines) to run Windows OS on your Mac.

I use Parallels to run MacOS, WinXP and Win10 concurrently. I cannot imagine how an ARM kernel can run Windows.

So, if you have a need to run Wintel applications its probably a non-starter.

 

[chrfr]

I suspect one key difference is the loss of either Bootcamp or VMs (virtual machines) to run Windows OS on your Mac.

I use Parallels to run MacOS, WinXP and Win10 concurrently. I cannot imagine how an ARM kernel can run Windows.

So, if you have a need to run Wintel applications its probably a non-starter.

It was confirmed today during a WWDC session that Rosetta cannot work to virtualize Intel.

 

[ruka.snow]

For most Mac users they will see bette performance, cooler running laptops, and better battery life. Developers and people using VMs are not normal users, it'll be a pain for us to begin with then life will move on. Anyone using Bootcamp is not a normal Mac user, they are quite an edge case and will have to buy a second machine.

I can see my photo editing being one of those cases that is really going to excel on the new ARM Macs, Lightroom already feels faster on my iPad than it has on the MacBook Pro and Mac mini 2018. If you are using Apple's pro apps for video and sound you'll be in a very good place as they'll be well optimised on day one.

 

[HDFan]

It was confirmed today during a WWDC session that Rosetta cannot work to virtualize Intel.

I use Parallels to run MacOS, WinXP and Win10 concurrently. I cannot imagine how an ARM kernel can run Windows.

So, if you have a need to run Wintel applications its probably a non-starter.

Apple’s Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC) revealed many innovative developments, including a demo featuring a prototype of a forthcoming version of Parallels Desktop for Mac running on Mac with Apple Silicon.

Application and Desktop Delivery | Parallels RAS

Parallels Remote Application Server (RAS) is a complete application delivery and VDI solution empowering the creation of digital workspaces! Read more.

www.parallels.com

 

[chrfr]

Apple’s Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC) revealed many innovative developments, including a demo featuring a prototype of a forthcoming version of Parallels Desktop for Mac running on Mac with Apple Silicon.

Application and Desktop Delivery | Parallels RAS

Parallels Remote Application Server (RAS) is a complete application delivery and VDI solution empowering the creation of digital workspaces! Read more.

www.parallels.com

The demo showed the ARM version of Linux running on that version of Parallels. There’s not going to be a way to virtualize Intel operating systems on these ARM Macs.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

For the average consumer who uses the Mac for social media / watching media can expect a better battery life and overall performance to be snappier basically.

Also most likely less heat during heavy loads..

 

[What's a computer?]

For the average consumer who uses the Mac for social media / watching media can expect a better battery life and overall performance to be snappier basically.

Also most likely less heat during heavy loads..

All other things being equal, ARM is roughly 20% more efficient than x86-64 (see cmaier's excellent, if bombastic, posts on this topic).
I think very few users would ever notice a 20% difference in performance. Some people would see this as a huge leap, but for perspective, consider that during the Moore's Law era (~1940-2010), an increase of 20% was only 5 months progress on average. 20% seems huge only because progress has stalled in recent years (the laws of economics started to collide with the laws of physics -- guess which laws tend to win in the long run).
As for cooling, for various business reasons (thinner! sleeker! now even more compact!), Apple has made cooling a low priority for longer than most people on this forum have been alive. Given that switching to its own silicon gives Apple greater control, I'd expect cooling to get worse, not better. However, I hope to be pleasantly surprised!

 

[Mousse]

It all hinges on Adobe, IMO. They were slow in switching from Carbon to Cocoa API. If a massive rewrite is necessary, I wouldn't expect PS to work well on ARM based machines for at least 2 years.

I'm guessing the Mac Pro will continue to use Intel processors. Until the Mac Pro switches to ARM, I expect Adobe to drag their feet in optimizing their apps for ARM.

 

[Sydde]

It all hinges on Adobe, IMO. They were slow in switching from Carbon to Cocoa API. If a massive rewrite is necessary, I wouldn't expect PS to work well on ARM based machines for at least 2 years.

There is a version of Photoshop that works on the iPad (ARM), so they are most of the way there. Naturally the iPad version is missing some tools and stuff, but the baseline code is in place. If they do not have one running on the new Macs just about out-of-the-gate, it will be difficult to understand, because GIMP and other apps will be right on top of that. Someday, Photoshop will be not so much the gold standard, just a verb.

 

[yurc]

One of my older audio interface looks won’t run on ARM since is still firewire, so for folks running older pro gears must be facing similar issue though. Some plugin compatibility is also questionable.

But yeah daily task and common stuff are better in Apple chips due less heat and very excel in burst single threaded operation.

It might be interesting when Apple released refined final version on AXX for Mac chips, how it would stack with standard x86 processor in brute force raw power, especially in multithreaded operation.

 

[Yebubbleman]

In terms of an 'idiots guide to'.. what difference will there be for an every day user when switching from an Intel processor to ARM?
What I mean is that I use my MBP frequently for music production, photo work and every day tasks but I don't really know much about the technical side of what goes on inside my MBP outside of CPU speed, RAM and storage.

How will switching from Intel to ARM affect different software? What possible teething problems are there likely to be when ARM is released? When minimum requirements for software is a certain CPU speed and intel processor, does this mean they wont work with ARM at all and companies will need to completely overhaul their software to work on the new processors?

Superficially, there won't be much difference between macOS Big Sur on an ARM Mac versus an Intel Mac. Speed, maybe. But other than that, the biggest thing you might notice is that Boot Camp won't let you dual-boot with an x86 or x86-64 version of Windows 10 on an ARM Mac (it still remains to be seen whether or not Apple and/or Microsoft will allow this to return with the ARM64 version of Windows 10); current versions of Parallels Desktop and VMware Fusion won't work. Oh, and you'll be able to run iOS and iPadOS apps on your ARM Mac. Otherwise, no difference from the standpoint of day-to-day.

 

[honestone33]

Given that I just got my late 2018 Mac Mini back in February, unless I can sell it for a decent price (by the time an ARM Mini arrives), I will be relying on Intel-based software, which should be OK for a few years. But for my MacBook Air, that machine is older, and when an ARM MacBook Air arrives, I will try and sell my current one. It's at that time that I will need the ARM versions of my third party software, on the MacBook Air only.

 

[d4z0mg]

So will it make any difference to third party software?

For example if the minimum requirements for a certain piece of software is currently a dual core i5 Intel processor, will that piece of software work with an ARM processor or will the company that makes it need to release an updated version that works with ARM processors meaning that it wouldn't be able to be used until an update was released?

 

[robbieduncan]

So will it make any difference to third party software?

For example if the minimum requirements for a certain piece of software is currently a dual core i5 Intel processor, will that piece of software work with an ARM processor or will the company that makes it need to release an updated version that works with ARM processors meaning that it wouldn't be able to be used until an update was released?

Rosetta 2 will run it on Apple Silicon until:

1) The company re-compiles (and potentially re-optimises and/or re-implements very low level code which should be very rare) and you upgrade (this may not be free…)
2) Apple remove Rosetta 2: likely in 2-3 major OS releases

 

[DevNull0]

For the generic man in the street there will be no difference.
Apple and Microsoft will have working office suites, the web browser will still be there. Even pro apps such as Logic Pro, Final Cut Pro and Photoshop should be up and running without issue by the time the first hardware is released.

Yeah, because the "generic man in the street" only runs a web browser and office suite

You picture all "generic" users as the same person doing almost nothing with their computer. You have no ability to understand that people are individuals with individual interests that may *gasp* be different from yours. Everyone does something with their computer and it may be something only 1 in a million people do, but there are millions of such 1 in a million activities, so you can't disregard them because each one is rare. And Apple Silicon will break most of them.

For the vast majority of users, something will break. Each individual something will affect a vanishingly small fraction of users. But that's the whole point, if 50% of Mac users use something, it's going to work. If 0.01% of Mac users use it, it's not worth the dev's time spending "days" getting it to work on GimpMacs.

 

[satcomer]

This will be same from going to Intel from PPC back in the 00s! It will take years for developers to port their code fully over from Intel! One thing is sure Windows is going bye bye from Mac after the full switch. Maybe from a VM but native boot is gone in the next year from new Macs!

 

[throAU]

But the Intel based Macs have never been efficient (heat, battery, computing threads) compared to the PPC which was super efficient.

Revisionist history much?

The intel core series processors are/were way more efficient than the powerPC from the start. With the original Core brand, intel made a MASSIVE step. It's the entire reason Apple switched - because IBM/Motorola who were building the PPC chips were only interested in server and couldn't fit anything bigger than a g4 in a notebook due to heat and power consumption. Mac battery life improved massively at the same time as gaining performance with the switch to intel at the time.

The problem is, it's now 15 years later and intel simply haven't gotten very far in the past 5-10 years, whilst apple has been making MASSIVE strides with their own processors.

 

[Thoradin]

Yeah, because the "generic man in the street" only runs a web browser and office suite

You picture all "generic" users as the same person doing almost nothing with their computer. You have no ability to understand that people are individuals with individual interests that may *gasp* be different from yours. Everyone does something with their computer and it may be something only 1 in a million people do, but there are millions of such 1 in a million activities, so you can't disregard them because each one is rare. And Apple Silicon will break most of them.

For the vast majority of users, something will break. Each individual something will affect a vanishingly small fraction of users. But that's the whole point, if 50% of Mac users use something, it's going to work. If 0.01% of Mac users use it, it's not worth the dev's time spending "days" getting it to work on GimpMacs.

What about my post makes you think that I’m disregarding other users?
It’s well known that the main use for the majority of regular people is ‘only’ a web browser and an office suite. And the original question of this topic is how will the change affect ‘normal’ users.
As someone who has worked with companies such as Nokia, HTC, Microsoft and HP over the years I know not every computer user is the same and the process for each persons specific usage case is totally different.
Usually reading the question of the thread before jumping in and suggesting someone has no idea what they are talking about would be a good idea.