What do we think of this then? (New BMW 1-series coupe)

cycocelica said:
People who drive BMWs are stereotypically rude and think they own the road.
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On the contrary, my dad (who owns 2 BMWs) think this about a majority of SUV drivers.

iGav said:
What exactly does it have to do with Chris Bangle?
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He designs BMWs...? He has everything to do with it.

sananda said:
i like the new designs. it works best on the z4. it took me a while to get used to the 1 series but it has grown on me. the only one i think is unsuccessful is the 3 series saloon. it looks fine from the front but completely boring from the side. unless you get the 330i the rear wheels don't fill the arches and it looks terrible. also i don't like the rear lights. whereas the coupe is much more successful with it rear arches and rear lights.

of course bangle was also responsible for some of the previous generation's designs which were very conservative. despite the criticisms of the new designs they are selling better than the previous incarnations. whether this means buyers like the designs or that they'll be a BMW whatever the design..i don't know.
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Of Chris Bangles designs, I say I like the Z4 the most, MAYBE the X3. I can stand the new designs, and wouldn't mind having one, it's just their older cars are more attractive to me. Even though he had part in the older designs, they were fine, but he didn't start f*cking them up until 2002 with the 7 series (E65).
 
Lord Blackadder said:
I'm an American auto afficionado, but not a typical one. Generally speaking, Americans prefer sedans over hatchbacks, al else being equal.
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...and the general problem in the US Market is that many of the hatchbacks that they were offered (Dodge Omni, anyone?) were rarely the 'equal'. As such, Americans developed a mindset of "hatchbacks = cheap crap", because that was mostly what they saw.

FWIW, GM did the same sort of mindset sabotague with their passenger car diesel engines in the 1970s.


American car manufacturers sell cheap V6 sedans, which the public gobble up.
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All too true. Its partly because American drivers don't know poop about real driving, so they are satisfied with the garbage that they're sold because its got a nice shiny finish.

I'm very reminded of my wife's "education"...her last American sedan was a Ford Tempo (despite me trying to get her into a Jetta), but five years later, she got an Audi 80 (she's now in an A4 now) ... over the years, she has proceeded to complain LOUDLY to me about how this rental car and that rental car (that she was getting on business trips) were such a piece of garbage, with vague steering, mushy or touchy brakes, wallowing understeer, etc, etc, etc. She's just preaching to the choir :D

FWIW, she took a performance driving class last summer...and loved it.


In the case of the C-class coupe, it lost out here to Acura (RSX), Honda (Civic Si), the BMW 3-Series and the VW GTI/R32/V6 Jetta.
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The same can also be said of the BMW 318ti, within certain limits. The general problem with both of these comparisons is that it is slightly apples-vs-oranges (3-Series sedans, Jetta)...

For some reason this time, the badge wasn't enough to pip more run of the mill (but more entrenched & popular) marques.
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...but also that the manufacturers assumed that their badge alone could generate sales in a customer base that in the USA is more focused on hatchback practicality mindset as it relates to overall product value ... wrong move.

They then hurt themselves further by failing to know their customer base niches - - specifically, the motor in the 318ti was anemic, so it didn't qualify as a "HOT" Hatch against VW's stroker motors, which killed the BMW on torque.

The final straw was that they failed to put any emphasis on where their product was materially different from its competitors...which in the case of the C230K was lower NVH and superior back seat room (legs & head).

I test drove a C-class coupe and liked it...not sure if I'd have bought one though - I am a bit wary of bottom of the range luxury cars.
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I test drove the 318ti ...and almost bought it back in 1995. Was turned off when I took a second test drive with a salesperson in the passenger seat and saw how much the extra 150lbs killed its "go fast" ability.

I bought a Saab 900S instead (huuuuuge hatchback), which I replaced by the C-Coupe in 2002. The only realistic competitor was the GTI, but the GTI had a relatively poor back seat and much worse NVH, which gave it poor prospects as a fast, long distance highway cruiser. This is one of those subtle factors that doesn't show up in a 15 minute test drive, unless you really know what to look for.

Had the Audi A3 been available, it would have been on my contenders list...and the A3 is currently on my wife's list as a contender in 2008, as is probably also the 1-Series...question for her is if she still wants 4 doors to transport grown adult coworkers.


-hh
 
markkk! said:
My bad...

When did he take over?
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He became the Head of BMW's Automobile Design Division in 2004, after Bangle was bumped up to overall Director of BMW Design (basically overseeing the design, creative direction and consistency of all of BMW's brands).

But van Hooydonk himself (and his team, whilst working at, and later heading up Designworks/USA ) were responsible for the 7 Series, including the somewhat incorrectly labeled Bangle Butt, and as far as I'm aware, the exterior design of pretty much every 'Flame Surfaced' BMW both prior to and since, including the Z4, 6 Series and X cars.
 
Bangle, Van Hooydonk, Fisker..... Anything desgined by these three men is amazing...... 135i, 0-60, 5.3 is phenomenal, most "fast" cars are slower, e.g 911, 5.7 etc...... Any apparently some american magazine tested the 0-60 of the 335i and it was faster then the time published by BMW....
 
iGav said:
He became the Head of BMW's Automobile Design Division in 2004, after Bangle was bumped up to overall Director of BMW Design (basically overseeing the design, creative direction and consistency of all of BMW's brands).

But van Hooydonk himself (and his team, whilst working at, and later heading up Designworks/USA ) were responsible for the 7 Series, including the somewhat incorrectly labeled Bangle Butt, and as far as I'm aware, the exterior design of pretty much every 'Flame Surfaced' BMW both prior to and since, including the Z4, 6 Series and X cars.
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So the whole "Flame surface" philosophy was more of a team effort and Bangle got all the credit? The 7 series (pre-facelift), Z4 and of course the 5-series were all penned and finalised well before 2004 (the 1-series was launched in 2004) so I guess he had a reasonably large part to play in their design somewhere along the line?
 
AlBDamned said:
So the whole "Flame surface" philosophy was more of a team effort and Bangle got all the credit?
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You are correct sir. Though I do believe he (Bangle) coined the term "Flame Surfacing", and he was certainly instrumental in developing and approving it as BMW's new design language.

If blame could be laid at his feet, it's that he is responsible for selecting and approving the designs (at the design level), though ultimately it is the responsibility of BMW's board for final approval, so they're just as culpable. If you see it that way of course. Heh.

From what I recall (I don't have my Car Design Yearbook's to hand) the actual flame surfacing aesthetic was actually realised by van Hooydonk (and can be traced back to the Z9 in '99) whilst he was working at Designworks/USA (BMW owned Design Studio).

AlBDamned said:
The 7 series (pre-facelift), Z4 and of course the 5-series were all penned and finalised well before 2004 (the 1-series was launched in 2004) so I guess he had a reasonably large part to play in their design somewhere along the line?
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He did, previous to being made head of BMW Automobiles Brand Design in 2004, he was heading up Designworks/USA, and has been responsible for not only the X models but almost every BMW model since the 7 Series in 2001.
 
My 1988 - 535i was awesome. That was a poor person's bimmer. Great fun, very reliable. Luxurious, but without air conditioning. remarkable car once I got rid of the horrid TRX tires, and shod it with Conti's. Perhaps there is a 1 seriess in my future...
 
I've been toying with the idea of getting an older BMW for a while now, but it would have to be a second car; I don't think it would be as robust as my Nissan Altima, which is unexciting but has decent handling, 32mpg economy and so far perfect reliability (although I'm going today to get the tie rod ends replaced as a precaution...).

I'm not well read on who is responsible for BMWs recent styling, I just know that I dislike it. Compared to the 2002, 635csi, or E30 M3 the current cars look disappointing.
 
Lord B, Is your Altima the V6, or is it perhaps diesel? I had a 3,5 liter Altima, and it was plenty exciting....
 
Cheese said:
Lord B, Is your Altima the V6, or is it perhaps diesel? I had a 3,5 liter Altima, and it was plenty exciting....
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No, it's a '99, with the 2.4L KA24DE twincam 4. 150HP @5500RPM and 155lb-ft, Very torquey, economical and reliable but not terribly refined. I have the GXE base model w/ a manual and she'll do 0-60 in 7.9 sec by my stopwatch, which is pretty respectable. The steering is nice and meaty with good feedback. It has more body roll than I'd like in car and the suspension is tuned for a less-than-sporty amount of understeer, but with sticky tires it's not bad. I see real-world 30/35mpg fuel economy (odd, because that is significantly higher than it's official rating).

The worst thing about the car is that it is fairly boring. It drives well, but it ain't no sports sedan.

The newer 3.5L V6 Altima is a totally different beast - significantly faster in a straight line (especially at higher speeds). But is is also bigger, heavier, much more expensive and a lot thirstier. I test drove one once, and at full throttle the torque steer was pretty bad. Not a bad car, but I'd rather get something RWD or AWD when you're talking that much HP.

Of course, the V6 Altima gives you a lot more car for the money than a more expensive 3-series or A4, even if it isn't as accomplished as a drivers' car. Which is why we Americans lap them up. ;)
 
Hi all,

You may be interested in Autobahn Report's preview (complete with photos and as much info as we know at this time) of the 1 Series coupe:
http://www.AutobahnReport.com/

The 135i promises to be an amazing performer! It has many of the traits of BMW's high-performance M cars.
 
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